Russia losing the war.

[Revoltingest]

I must admit to being surprised at how badly the Russian forces seem to be doing, but not surprised as to their vicious bombing of civilian targets. So much easier to do, and not a good reflection on their morality, even if such hardly bothers them. It will though when the bulk of Russians discover such - if they ever do. After all, these Ukrainians were once seen as brothers and sisters.

All the men, women, children, & other civilians killed
must all be Nazis. Putin would never harm innocents.

 

[Kooky]

All the men, women, children, & other civilians killed
must all be Nazis. Putin would never harm innocents.

That's the pro-Putin line among extreme right and left - entire hospitals in Ukraine were chock full of Nazis, apparently.

 

[Mock Turtle]

All the men, women, children, & other civilians killed
must all be Nazis. Putin would never harm innocents.

Can't even recognise his own kind.

 

[Suave]

I believe Putin is finished he is not just losing the war...but he has gone mental and become crazy.

Both Russia and Ukraine are suffering heavy losses, there are no winners at the moment in this conflict between Russia and Ukraine. If Ukraine were to agree with being a neutral state like Switzerland, recognize Crimea as belonging to Russia, and if Ukraine were to agree with a democratic referendum on the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk, then the conflicts between Russia and Ukraine could be peacefully resolved.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Both Russia and Ukraine are suffering heavy losses, there are no winners at the moment in this conflict between Russia and Ukraine. If Ukraine were to agree with being a neutral state like Switzerland, recognize Crimea as belonging to Russia, and if Ukraine were to agree with a democratic referendum on the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk, then the conflicts between Russia and Ukraine could be peacefully resolved.

Why should Ukraine give up something that legally belong to them, and not to Russia?
This is all Putins fault.

 

[Suave]

Why should Ukraine give up something that legally belong to them, and not to Russia?
This is all Putins fault.

Possession is 9/10ths the law, Ukraine can not give up that which it does not have.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Possession is 9/10ths the law, Ukraine can not give up that which it does not have.

Those parts you mention has been Ukrain territory, and Russia should stay awY, accepting Ukraine sovreinity and also accept that Ukrain want partnership with Europe, not with Russia

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why should Ukraine give up something that legally belong to them, and not to Russia?
This is all Putins fault.

Because most of the people living there are ethnic Russians and want to be part of Russia. No, this is not "all Putin's fault". The US has been escalating the tension there for decades by building up NATO further and further east (after lying and saying we wouldn't) and then we backed a coup which overthrew their president in 2014, and installed a puppet government that is beholden to US interests. Zelensky is an actor who seems to have been groomed for the role of Ukrainian president, and he's putting on his greatest performance yet - that he's actually a leader of a sovereign "democratic" nation and not a US intelligence asset leading a corrupt government in cahoots with extremists. Ukraine is a mess, and the poorest country in Europe. Russia could actually just roll right over them if they wanted to, so that's obviously not what this is really about.

It's like if Russia overthrew the Canadian prime minister, picked the new prime minister and set up bases close to the border with the US. Obviously the US would probably attack or be close to doing so. That's essentially what's going on here.

 

[Suave]

Those parts you mention has been Ukrain territory, and Russia should stay awY, accepting Ukraine sovreinity and also accept that Ukrain want partnership with Europe, not with Russia

Perhaps we could agree with the people of Donetsk and Luhansk democratically voting on being independent states., As far as Crimea goes, it has historic ties to Russia

 

[Spirit of Light]

Perhaps we could agree with the people of Donetsk and Luhansk democratically voting on being independent states., As far as Crimea goes, it has historic ties to Russia

I can only agree when Putin stop the fight, until then i can not agree on Russian government treatment of Ukraine.

 

[Kooky]

As far as Crimea goes, it has historic ties to Russia

Poland also has historic ties to Russia.
Do you think the people of Poland should be peacefully subjugated under the enlightened Christian yoke of Vladimir Putin, prostrating themselves before their rightful Russian masters like certain Americans on this forum apparently expect of the other peoples of East Europe?

 

[Kooky]

Because most of the people living there are ethnic Russians and want to be part of Russia. No, this is not "all Putin's fault". The US has been escalating the tension there for decades by building up NATO further and further east (after lying and saying we wouldn't) and then we backed a coup which overthrew their president in 2014, and installed a puppet government that is beholden to US interests. Zelensky is an actor who seems to have been groomed for the role of Ukrainian president, and he's putting on his greatest performance yet - that he's actually a leader of a sovereign "democratic" nation and not a US intelligence asset leading a corrupt government in cahoots with extremists. Ukraine is a mess, and the poorest country in Europe. Russia could actually just roll right over them if they wanted to, so that's obviously not what this is really about.

It's like if Russia overthrew the Canadian prime minister, picked the new prime minister and set up bases close to the border with the US. Obviously the US would probably attack or be close to doing so. That's essentially what's going on here.

Do the people of Ukraine figure in this calculation at all, or are Americans so inundiated in their belief in the inherent righteousness of imperialism and colonialism that they literally cannot conceive of a non-American people choosing a path that the imperialist nuclear powers have not decided for them?

 

[Suave]

Poland also has historic ties to Russia.
Do you think the people of Poland should be peacefully subjugated under the enlightened Christian yoke of Vladimir Putin, prostrating themselves before their rightful Russian masters like certain Americans on this forum apparently expect of the other peoples of East Europe?

I doubt most Poles , unlike most residents of the People's Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk want to be annexed by Russia. I would like us to respect the will of the people in eastern European regions if they would like to vote for being annexed by Russia

 

[Kooky]

I doubt most Poles , unlike most residents of the People's Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk want to be annexed by Russia. I would like us to respect the will of the people in eastern European regions if they would like to vote for being annexed by Russia

Should America have respected the will of the people ruled by ISIS?
Clearly, they wanted to be ruled by an authoritarian regime, or they wouldn't have lived there!

 

[Suave]

Should America have respected the will of the people ruled by ISIS?
Clearly, they wanted to be ruled by an authoritarian regime, or they wouldn't have lived there!

I have put forth a peace settlement whereby the people of Donetsk and Luhansk vote on their independence from Ukraine if the majority of them would like. This is an example of democracy in action that I hope we can agree should happen

 

[Revoltingest]

I have put forth a peace settlement whereby the people of Donetsk and Luhansk vote on their independence from Ukraine if the majority of them would like. This is an example of democracy in action that I hope we can agree should happen

It's a bit too late for a vote to reflect the will
of the people....many have fled, & Russia
is applying deadly pressure.

 

[Suave]

It's a bit too late for a vote to reflect the will
of the people....many have fled, & Russia
is applying deadly pressure.

Of course, we should doubt the integrity of elections in the presence of the Russian military Perhaps, an interim United Nations peacekeeping force there could conduct the referendum vote regarding the sovereignty of the People's Republic of Donetsk and Luhansk.

 

[Revoltingest]

Of course, we should doubt the integrity of elections in the presence of the Russian military Perhaps, an interim United Nations peacekeeping force there could conduct the referendum vote regarding the sovereignty of the People's Republic of Donetsk and Luhansk.

Still, it wouldn't include votes of those who fled.
A better option is for people who don't like it there
to move to Russia....someplace not bombed.

 

[Kooky]

I have put forth a peace settlement whereby the people of Donetsk and Luhansk vote on their independence from Ukraine if the majority of them would like. This is an example of democracy in action that I hope we can agree should happen

Didn't they "freely" elect to be annexed by Russia, after eight years of rule by pro-Russian militias bankrolled by the Putin regime, much like the people of Austria had "freely" elected to be annexed into Nazi Germany, after being invaded by Nazi Germany a month prior?

 

[Kooky]

Ukraine is a mess, and the poorest country in Europe. Russia could actually just roll right over them if they wanted to, so that's obviously not what this is really about.

The Putin regime seems to be having some substantial difficulty in their attempt to "roll right over them". I suppose you take that as indication that Putin didn't really want to declare war and invade Ukraine, since his soldiers have been doing a less than stellar job at it so far.