Russian Disinformation

[Estro Felino]

Whoosh!

With all due respect of course.
It's as if we Europeans crossed the Atlantic to impose on you guys something.
We would never do that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As for these American right-wing "influencers" supposedly working for the Russians, who cares what they have to say anyway? Nobody can be influenced unless they want to be influenced.

That's not how Youtube and Facebook algorithms work. They will throw you things you didn't ask for, may not even want to see (like a video it suggested to me of a cartel beheading an influencer who went after them), and how they are programed to maximize engagement time means what gets promoted is stuff the exploits emotion.
Sri Lanka, Myanmar, England, Germany, USA, Brazil, again and again around the world where we are seeing violence (especially aimed at immigrants) we are finding people who fell through a social media algorithm rabbit hole that radicalized them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

With all due respect of course

Which, of course, is a statement that never has respect attached to it.

It's as if we Europeans crossed the Atlantic to impose on you guys something.
We would never do that.

Yes, we've been over this, some Europeans have indeed meddled in American affairs and took actions--or inaction in the case of Churchill--that did attempt to or successfully effect the outcomes and events in America. England tried, Spain tried, Nazi Germany tried, the Societ Union extensively operated here and stole a lot of technology (we got them back by giving them sabatoged electronics), and now Putin has been planting the seeds of misinformation on social media.

 

[Estro Felino]

Which, of course, is a statement that never has respect attached to it.


Yes, we've been over this, some Europeans have indeed meddled in American affairs and took actions--or inaction in the case of Churchill--that did attempt to or successfully effect the outcomes and events in America. England tried, Spain tried, Nazi Germany tried, the Societ Union extensively operated here and stole a lot of technology (we got them back by giving them sabatoged electronics), and now Putin has been planting the seeds of misinformation on social media.

In the 21st century.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In the 21st century.

Putin IS ruling Russia in the 21st century.

 

[Estro Felino]

Putin IS ruling Russia in the 21st century.

Has he ever crossed the Atlantic?
No...Americans do cross it...

 

[Stevicus]

That's not how Youtube and Facebook algorithms work. They will throw you things you didn't ask for, may not even want to see (like a video it suggested to me of a cartel beheading an influencer who went after them), and how they are programed to maximize engagement time means what gets promoted is stuff the exploits emotion.
Sri Lanka, Myanmar, England, Germany, USA, Brazil, again and again around the world where we are seeing violence (especially aimed at immigrants) we are finding people who fell through a social media algorithm rabbit hole that radicalized them.

Yes, but some people are obviously not influenced.

Besides, I don't think YouTube or Facebook are controlled by the Russians. The topic in this thread is that the Russians are doing it, and shame on them if they are. But from what you and others are saying about these algorithms, there are American companies doing it, too. So, shame on YouTube and Facebook, too. It's not just a Russian problem. It's an American corporate problem, mostly.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes, but some people are obviously not influenced.

Besides, I don't think YouTube or Facebook are controlled by the Russians. The topic in this thread is that the Russians are doing it, and shame on them if they are. But from what you and others are saying about these algorithms, there are American companies doing it, too. So, shame on YouTube and Facebook, too. It's not just a Russian problem. It's an American corporate problem, mostly.

Definitely, but we are seeing Russia exploit these algorithms, essentially just planting some seeds and letting the algorithms and many millenia of evolution we haven't outgrown do the rest.
And, yes, some people are not influenced but enough are that it's problematic and has even turned deadly, and with misinformation outweigh the facts and pushing people and nations into extremist and radicalized RW politics.

 

[tytlyf]

Propaganda targets emotions. The goal is to make citizenry paranoid, hateful, angry, etc.
These are the ultimate motivating factors when it comes to people voting one way or the other.
Manipulating emotions is the #1 priority.

 

[Pogo]

With all due respect of course.
It's as if we Europeans crossed the Atlantic to impose on you guys something.
We would never do that.

No, it is your minority position that you wish to pretend is European let alone world wide.
Sorry you are in the minority no matter how you crow.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don't work in the tech industry as you do, so I won't argue with your expertise about algorithms. I have had some degree of awareness about this, and I've seen it in play myself. However, I also know that there isn't just one player here. There are multiple companies and organizations in play trying to influence using whatever technological means they have at their disposal. But I see it mostly as American companies doing this (Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon, etc.), not Russian entities.

You don't seem to understand.

The tech companies provide the platforms and the algoritms for the newsfeeds (facebook, tiktok, twitter, instagram, youtube, etc etc). They don't provide the actual content of the feeds. Other actors, like Russian troll farms and companies like Cambridge Analytica, are plugging into those systems by bringing the "fake news" into circulation. They do this by spreading fake stories and abusing the ad system to target specific psychological profiles.

It comes straight out of the playbook of psychological warfare.

There may be other parties involved, but the bottom line is that it still largely seems to be a relatively open playing field.

Not really. The algoritms make it a closed field, by pushing users deeper and deeper into their own information bubble.
It goes rather far you know...

Google for example even goes so far as basing results and ads on what you write about in mails on gmail. We did the test once...
Brand new account on a brand new pc with no search or browsing history. Started by writing an email to a friend about supposedly having to go to a store to buy cat food and how fun it is to play with my cats.

Opened random website and sure enough....... filled with ads about cat food, cat toys, etc.
Did a search on "fun things to do with my pet" (so no mention of cats) and sure enough, first couple links all exclusively about cats.

You're not saying that anyone has a monopoly on any of this, are you?

It's not about it being a monopoly. It's about it simply being how the entire internet works today.
You quite literally have to go out of your way to circumvent it... And even then, you won't be able to fully escape it.

Some ways to minimize it:
- NEVER stay logged in to ANY account when browsing
- use private browsing always
- don't use google, use duck duck go or alike instead
- keep your browser clean: enable the setting to erase browsing history, cookies, etc whenever you close the browser

But even that isn't enough. Traces will remain. Logging on the servers still happens through IP and mac addresses. Log in to your account once on that machine and on the server the login is linked to the IP / mac address. At best, such practices will only minimize the data they have available on you.

You yourself have argued many times about the merits of competition and the free market, so isn't this an example of that very philosophy playing out?

No. This is an example of politicians not being tech savy enough to understand the unethicalness of such algoritms.
Another problem here is how these tech platforms exploded in size and reach in very short time. So it requires quite some balls to go against them now, as the economic repercussions would be quite massive. Imagine voting a law which destroys Google's and Meta's very business models over night.....

As a software engineer myself, my stance has always been "if you wonder if a certain practice in cyberspace is okay, then ask yourself if the equivalent of it in the real world would be okay - the answer should be the same".

Remember my gmail example? Now imagine the post-man who brings you your physical correspondence, opening all your letters, reading them to see what you write about and then decide based on that what articles are printed on the newspaper you get, which ad folders to give you, etc.
You wouldn't think that's okay, would you?

Yet Google does exactly that and has been doing exactly that for years and years with not only your digital mail, but with literally all media you consume on the internet. And the same goes for facebook and the others.

Personally, I look for information more actively. These newsfeeds and algorithms seem to target the passive reader or internet surfer.

These algoritms are everywhere. If you do a google search, it's active. Even on certain news websites, the articles you'll see will be different then those you'll see with another login or on another computer, as it formats the homepage based on your google profile, facebook profiles, cookies on your device, etc.

The "we believe you will like this" concept is very much integrated in most media you can think of online.
Even on things like netflix. There are shows on there that I will simply never see unless I look for them directly, simply because of my viewing history.

Other than that, I get a daily digest from the Arizona Republic, the LA Times, AP, CNN. I don't know if they're the same for everyone or if they use an algorithm, but nevertheless, I peruse multiple sources. I don't generally use Fox News, but then again, I don't automatically reject Fox out of hand. As with anything, I look around and try to get whatever background information I can.

One source of frustration I come across when browsing news is the infamous "paywall." I encounter that phenomenon more and more these days. While some sites are freely flooding us with algorithms and slanted news, the more established news sites are hiding behind paywalls because profits. I have nothing against paying for a newspaper (I used to buy 2-3 papers a day before the internet), but if I'm just looking for a specific article about a specific event, it's a different thing.

It seems to me that, if there are people so concerned about the spate of disinformation out there, then they should encourage more media outlets (and academia and libraries) to unlock their paywalls and make information available to all. If they want information to be a for-profit industry, then they can't very well complain if the less affluent aren't getting the same level of information.

I'm not saying it is impossible to be well-informed and avoid the fake news and / or be able to distinguish one from the other.
But I am saying that one has to be very aware and making active effort to do so. The vast majority of people don't.
And that's how you end up with millions of Americans falling for the Q nonsense and alike.

And that's how guys like Putin and Xi interfere with elections and semi successfully destroy our democracies from within, by using our own tech against us.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Has he ever crossed the Atlantic?

Thanks to the global reach of the interwebs, he doesn't have to.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Yes, but some people are obviously not influenced.

Besides, I don't think YouTube or Facebook are controlled by the Russians. The topic in this thread is that the Russians are doing it, and shame on them if they are. But from what you and others are saying about these algorithms, there are American companies doing it, too. So, shame on YouTube and Facebook, too. It's not just a Russian problem. It's an American corporate problem, mostly.

Again with the same misunderstanding.

Google provides the platform of youtube. It doesn't provide the video's.
Facebook provides the platform for information exchange. It doesn't provide the information.
Google and facebook provides the platform for targetted ads. They don't provide the ads themselves.

The videos, the articles, the information, the ads.... all those things are provide by other people.
You, me, other users - and among them Russian troll farms.

 

[Estro Felino]

Thanks to the global reach of the interwebs, he doesn't have to.

Conspiracy theory.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Conspiracy theory.

Not even remotely.

Meta disables Russian propaganda network targeting Europe

Facebook says it has identified and stopped a sprawling network of fake accounts that spread Russian propaganda about the invasion of Ukraine throughout Western Europe.

apnews.com

Russian Disinformation Campaign “DoppelGänger” Unmasked: A Web of Deception

The European Union’s Disinformation Lab (EU DisinfoLab) has recently exposed a sophisticated Russian influence campaign known as “DoppelGänger.”

www.cybercom.mil

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www.npr.org

Propaganda and Misinformation on Facebook and Twitter during the Russian Invasion of Ukraine

dl.acm.org

Facebook and Instagram hit with EU probes over Russian disinformation

Hundreds of millions of Europeans will cast their ballots on June 6-9 amid a surge of online disinformation.

www.politico.eu

Big, bold and unchecked: Russian influence operation thrives on Facebook

Pro-Kremlin network “Doppelganger” is buying Facebook ads to spread divisive content on social media site ahead of EU election.

www.politico.eu

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www.washingtonpost.com

Facebook itself actually admits that their platform is being abused by Russian misinformation campaigns carried out by troll farms using fake accounts, influencers, etc.

 

[Estro Felino]

Not even remotely.

Meta disables Russian propaganda network targeting Europe

Facebook says it has identified and stopped a sprawling network of fake accounts that spread Russian propaganda about the invasion of Ukraine throughout Western Europe.

apnews.com

Russian Disinformation Campaign “DoppelGänger” Unmasked: A Web of Deception

The European Union’s Disinformation Lab (EU DisinfoLab) has recently exposed a sophisticated Russian influence campaign known as “DoppelGänger.”

www.cybercom.mil

Loading…

www.npr.org

Propaganda and Misinformation on Facebook and Twitter during the Russian Invasion of Ukraine

dl.acm.org

Facebook and Instagram hit with EU probes over Russian disinformation

Hundreds of millions of Europeans will cast their ballots on June 6-9 amid a surge of online disinformation.

www.politico.eu

Big, bold and unchecked: Russian influence operation thrives on Facebook

Pro-Kremlin network “Doppelganger” is buying Facebook ads to spread divisive content on social media site ahead of EU election.

www.politico.eu

Loading…

www.washingtonpost.com

Facebook itself actually admits that their platform is being abused by Russian misinformation campaigns carried out by troll farms using fake accounts, influencers, etc.

Okay...when I say that an elitist gang of warmongers are paying Kiev to wage a war against Moscow...it's a conspiracy theory-

When it's about Moscow paying people to do a misinformation campaign...it's true and holy.

Wow...

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Okay...when I say that an elitist gang of warmongers are paying Kiev to wage a war against Moscow...it's a conspiracy theory-

When it's about Moscow paying people to do a misinformation campaign...it's true and holy.

Yes. You can tell which is which by the amount of evidence.
One has none and the other has mountains.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes. You can tell which is which by the amount of evidence.
One has none and the other has mountains.

The people who spread pro-Russian narrative, they do it for free.
They are paid by nobody.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The people who spread pro-Russian narrative, they do it for free.
They are paid by nobody.

False

Internet Research Agency - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The "trolls" in troll farms are employees.
It's their job.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I confess. I am Putin's mistress.
And by the way...he is a god in bed, as they say.

Please. He wouldn't touch a transgender with a 5-foot pole.