• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Same Sex Marrige By a Church.

LittleNipper

Well-Known Member
God doesn't what?
Believe in that once saved always saved lie?
I agree.
WRONG!

In John 10:28-30, Jesus says: “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one." The forgiveness of God through Christ is sufficient to cover all of our sins -- past, present, and future. There is nothing a person can do that God cannot forgive. This doctrine is supported by Romans 8:38-39, Ephesians 4:30, and Jude 24, among others.
Once Saved, Always Saved – The Logical Evidence
As with many other scriptural doctrines, the idea of “once saved, always saved” is also supported logically. Eternal security is consistent with everything else the Bible teaches about mankind, and God. Examining the doctrine in relation to the rest of Scripture demonstrates that it is consistent with all other biblically sound teachings. The idea of losing our salvation is not only unscriptural, but it creates monumental problems with other doctrines, including salvation by faith, the sin nature of man, and the purpose of Christ’s sacrifice.

The Bible teaches that man is inherently sinful -- that a sinful nature is a part of all of us (Romans 3:10). This means that even after being saved, every single believer is going to sin from time to time. Thinking that we can live a perfect, sinless life after our salvation is not only unscriptural, but arrogant (James 2:10). If we are not eternally secure, this sinning will cause us to lose our salvation, but how much sin is too much? There is no scriptural “yardstick” given to tell us how many or what kind of sins are enough to void our salvation. Without eternal security, the Bible would describe a situation where Christianity is a perpetual game of Russian Roulette; a life in which condemnation and salvation alternate every time we sin and confess, and we never know if we’re saved or not.

Scriptural passages (Ephesians 2:8-9, Isaiah 64:6) indicate that our attempts at good deeds will never earn us a place in heaven. We cannot make up for our past, present, or future sins by doing good works. A saved believer will, as a natural product of their faith, shun sin and practice good works (James 2:18). If “once saved, always saved” is not true, then by necessity we are saved both by our faith and our works. If we can do sinful things, or not do good things (James 4:17) and lose our security, then our good deeds are a part of our salvation. This concept is contradictory to Scripture. It also creates an unlivable scenario where we have to try to do enough good to outweigh our sinful natures. The doctrine of “eternal security” goes hand in hand with the doctrine of “saved by faith alone.” To deny eternal security is to endorse a “faith plus works” salvation system.

Jesus Christ made some powerful statements about morality during His earthly ministry. In those three short years, He talked the talk and walked the walk of the toughest moral and ethical system in human history. Most religions focus on the external actions, but Christ took the concept of sin and holiness to a much deeper level. For example, most religions are satisfied to condemn the physical act of adultery, but Christ said “Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart” (Matthew 5:28).

Christ set the bar for holiness at a level all Christians are called to aspire to, but none can ever fully live up to, because of our sin nature. Just as the law of Moses was meant, in part, to demonstrate to Israel how impossible it was for mortal man to obtain the moral perfection of God, the standards of Christ also remind us of how shallow our best efforts at goodness really are. Thankfully, God has always provided a way for us to be forgiven for our shortcomings. Christ’s sacrifice on the cross served the same purpose for all mankind that the sacrificial lambs did for specific families before His ministry. Christ was a sinless, blameless substitute for our sins. The Bible clearly tells us what Christ’s moral expectations are for us. If we lost our salvation every time we fell short of those ideals, then none of us would be saved for more than a few minutes at a time. If that were true, what purpose was there in His death?

Also, according to the Bible, if we could lose our salvation, then it would be lost forever, because Christ only died once. Hebrews 6:4-6 is an often misunderstood passage, which strongly supports the doctrine of eternal security in two ways: it implies that Christ’s sacrifice must be sufficient for all sins, and states that if it were possible for a person to lose their salvation, it would be forever lost. According to this passage, if a person could do something that cost them their salvation (which they cannot), then it would be “impossible” for them to be re-redeemed.
Once Saved, Always Saved – The New Creation
Critics of the “once saved, always saved” doctrine claim that it gives Christians a license to sin. They presume that those who believe in eternal security intend to accept salvation, and then continue to willingly sin. This is inaccurate, because anyone who has been truly saved is a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17), has the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 1 Thessalonians 4:8), and now wants to live for Christ. Someone who continues to willingly and blatantly live in sin has not truly accepted Christ (1 John 2:19; 1 John 3:6; James 1:26). While this false belief may be held by some, it is not a part of the teachings of any true Christian church (Romans 3:8).

A person who willingly, humbly, repents of sin and turns towards the cross, trusting Christ as their Savior, will be saved (Acts 16:31; John 6:37; John 14:6). That salvation is once and for all, eternal, and secure. Those who truly trust in Christ are saved once, and saved always
 

challupa

Well-Known Member
WRONG!

In John 10:28-30, Jesus says: “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one." The forgiveness of God through Christ is sufficient to cover all of our sins -- past, present, and future. There is nothing a person can do that God cannot forgive. This doctrine is supported by Romans 8:38-39, Ephesians 4:30, and Jude 24, among others.
Once Saved, Always Saved – The Logical Evidence
As with many other scriptural doctrines, the idea of “once saved, always saved” is also supported logically. Eternal security is consistent with everything else the Bible teaches about mankind, and God. Examining the doctrine in relation to the rest of Scripture demonstrates that it is consistent with all other biblically sound teachings. The idea of losing our salvation is not only unscriptural, but it creates monumental problems with other doctrines, including salvation by faith, the sin nature of man, and the purpose of Christ’s sacrifice.

The Bible teaches that man is inherently sinful -- that a sinful nature is a part of all of us (Romans 3:10). This means that even after being saved, every single believer is going to sin from time to time. Thinking that we can live a perfect, sinless life after our salvation is not only unscriptural, but arrogant (James 2:10). If we are not eternally secure, this sinning will cause us to lose our salvation, but how much sin is too much? There is no scriptural “yardstick” given to tell us how many or what kind of sins are enough to void our salvation. Without eternal security, the Bible would describe a situation where Christianity is a perpetual game of Russian Roulette; a life in which condemnation and salvation alternate every time we sin and confess, and we never know if we’re saved or not.

Scriptural passages (Ephesians 2:8-9, Isaiah 64:6) indicate that our attempts at good deeds will never earn us a place in heaven. We cannot make up for our past, present, or future sins by doing good works. A saved believer will, as a natural product of their faith, shun sin and practice good works (James 2:18). If “once saved, always saved” is not true, then by necessity we are saved both by our faith and our works. If we can do sinful things, or not do good things (James 4:17) and lose our security, then our good deeds are a part of our salvation. This concept is contradictory to Scripture. It also creates an unlivable scenario where we have to try to do enough good to outweigh our sinful natures. The doctrine of “eternal security” goes hand in hand with the doctrine of “saved by faith alone.” To deny eternal security is to endorse a “faith plus works” salvation system.

Jesus Christ made some powerful statements about morality during His earthly ministry. In those three short years, He talked the talk and walked the walk of the toughest moral and ethical system in human history. Most religions focus on the external actions, but Christ took the concept of sin and holiness to a much deeper level. For example, most religions are satisfied to condemn the physical act of adultery, but Christ said “Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart” (Matthew 5:28).

Christ set the bar for holiness at a level all Christians are called to aspire to, but none can ever fully live up to, because of our sin nature. Just as the law of Moses was meant, in part, to demonstrate to Israel how impossible it was for mortal man to obtain the moral perfection of God, the standards of Christ also remind us of how shallow our best efforts at goodness really are. Thankfully, God has always provided a way for us to be forgiven for our shortcomings. Christ’s sacrifice on the cross served the same purpose for all mankind that the sacrificial lambs did for specific families before His ministry. Christ was a sinless, blameless substitute for our sins. The Bible clearly tells us what Christ’s moral expectations are for us. If we lost our salvation every time we fell short of those ideals, then none of us would be saved for more than a few minutes at a time. If that were true, what purpose was there in His death?

Also, according to the Bible, if we could lose our salvation, then it would be lost forever, because Christ only died once. Hebrews 6:4-6 is an often misunderstood passage, which strongly supports the doctrine of eternal security in two ways: it implies that Christ’s sacrifice must be sufficient for all sins, and states that if it were possible for a person to lose their salvation, it would be forever lost. According to this passage, if a person could do something that cost them their salvation (which they cannot), then it would be “impossible” for them to be re-redeemed.
Once Saved, Always Saved – The New Creation
Critics of the “once saved, always saved” doctrine claim that it gives Christians a license to sin. They presume that those who believe in eternal security intend to accept salvation, and then continue to willingly sin. This is inaccurate, because anyone who has been truly saved is a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17), has the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 1 Thessalonians 4:8), and now wants to live for Christ. Someone who continues to willingly and blatantly live in sin has not truly accepted Christ (1 John 2:19; 1 John 3:6; James 1:26). While this false belief may be held by some, it is not a part of the teachings of any true Christian church (Romans 3:8).

A person who willingly, humbly, repents of sin and turns towards the cross, trusting Christ as their Savior, will be saved (Acts 16:31; John 6:37; John 14:6). That salvation is once and for all, eternal, and secure. Those who truly trust in Christ are saved once, and saved always
You're being lied to, but that's alright, cause you don't mind....
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
God doesn't what?
Believe in that once saved always saved lie?
I agree.
Once-saved-always-saved is such a non-issue, because it directs us away from the dynamic of salvation. There is nothing we can do in order to effect salvation. There is nothing we can do to to derail salvation. God will save whom God will save.

BTW, I quoted your post, because it's more concise than archer's response.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Is condemned, (according to some OT scholars).
But do you follow OT laws? Or, as a Christian, do you follow the summation of the Law as stated by Jesus Christ?
It's important to know why it was condemned, as well as exactly what was being condemned. Apparently the fundigelicals think that two men or two women, living in a loving and monogamous relationship, in a culture that is neither theocratic nor driven by honor/shame, is exactly the same as battlefield rape in the ancient Middle East.
 

challupa

Well-Known Member
How do you know? What exactly do you base that on? What if you are wrong?
The point I am making is that we could all be wrong. Really, think about it. The bible that you hold so dear could be wrong. I personally believe it is very wrong. I cannot visualize a god like the one described in it. There are many beliefs that are much gentler and kinder to humanity. That are more of the mindset, "live and let live". Out of all the religions worldwide, why would anyone choose one that is quite aggressive, exclusive, and makes you appear to be a sinner, even when you were born? Where you were born etc. influences what religion you are likely going to believe, though not always. However, It definitely increases the odds that if you are born in the Middle East you will be a sect of Muslim and if you are born in Europe or North America, you will be more likely to be a Christian. This does not mean what you believe is right, it only means it is the one you were influenced by.

I feel very strongly that all religions should be brought up to date with the times and I don't think if God exists that he would have any problem with that. If we are truly his children, don't you think that the way he interacted with us 2000 years ago might be different now? After all, as our children grow and mature, we change the way we interact with them and also change some of the information we give them because they are more capable of integrating it as they mature. Why is it that it is so important to be stuck in time taking what a bunch of primative goat herders believed about what god wanted? Did you ever stop to think about that? Religions that condemn each other do not create harmony and peace, rather they create pain and suffering. I instinctively know this cannot be right. It makes no logical sense if god is all loving, compassionate and forgiving and wants us to model that.
 

Archer

Well-Known Member
It's important to know why it was condemned, as well as exactly what was being condemned. Apparently the fundigelicals think that two men or two women, living in a loving and monogamous relationship, in a culture that is neither theocratic nor driven by honor/shame, is exactly the same as battlefield rape in the ancient Middle East.

That also is a bad thing but these laws were for the leading of everyday life.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Well, then that means that when I was really little, that I had a tri-sexual. :)
And to think --------------- I could have had a V-8.
Trisexual...
How exactly does that work???

I had some hermaphrodites removed some years back. They did it in an outpatient procedure. :help:
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
That also is a bad thing but these laws were for the leading of everyday life.
In that place and time, that sort of activity was fairly common...
plus there was the whole purity law schtick, as well as laws concerning honor/shame.
 

Archer

Well-Known Member
In that place and time, that sort of activity was fairly common...
plus there was the whole purity law schtick, as well as laws concerning honor/shame.

No doubt:) But the other ordinances it is tied up with are civil. I have no doubt that it also applied to what you stated.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I had a homosexual, but I kept falling off.
I went to the circus and saw a clown riding one of those, while juggling. But he didn't fall off.
I also understand that, in addition to juggling, there can be quite a lot of jiggling going on when riding one.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
No doubt:) But the other ordinances it is tied up with are civil. I have no doubt that it also applied to what you stated.
I don't think there was quite the distinction between civil/military that you perceive.
 
Top