Samir Kuntar: the world should know!

[doppelganger]

It's an illustration of his point about where appeasement leads us.

I didn't say anything about "appeasement," (or "blind trust" for that matter), so I already understood his meaning to be suggesting by the use of that very loaded symbol "appeasement" that my post (which was about mercy) should be associated implicitly with the Nazis. I wanted that reference explicitly on the record.

It is what it is, and I have nothing more to say about it.

 

[robtex]

Jay you did a great job of personalizing one of the scores of inhumane acts committed annually be various groups in the middle east. I think if more of it was unearthed and personalize people would be so much more inspired to find ways to halt much of the middle east violence. Great thread.

 

[jewscout]

I didn't say anything about "appeasement," (or "blind trust" for that matter), so I already understood his meaning to be suggesting by the use of that very loaded symbol "appeasement" that my post (which was about mercy) should be associated implicitly with the Nazis. I wanted that reference explicitly on the record.

It is what it is, and I have nothing more to say about it.

if my comment was taken as a personal attack on you doppleganger, comparing you or any other to nazi sympathizers, that was not my intention and i apologize...

i was simply trying to illustrate the flip side of the arguement

 

[doppelganger]

but it illustrates that giving in under the false belief of avoiding further conflict can lead to something far worse than what you were originally trying to avoid...

So if someone is convinced a certain people is encroaching on the land "gifted by God" it would not be appropriate to "appease" the invaders, but should result in a forceful reprisal?

Is it possible that just such a sense of "justice" and avoidance of "appeasement" may be part of what enabled Samir Kuntar to crush that little girl's head with the butt of a rifle?

 

[robtex]

Is it possible that just such a sense of "justice" and avoidance of "appeasement" may be part of what enabled Samir Kuntar to crush that little girl's head with the butt of a rifle?

What enabled S Kuntar to crush the girl's skull was Kuntar himself. What justifies that action to me is nothing. Not God, not a section of land, not anything. Do you feel God's will entitled him to crush her skull?

 

[doppelganger]

What enabled S Kuntar to crush the girl's skull was Kuntar himself. What justifies that action to me is nothing. Not God, not a section of land, not anything. Do you feel God's will entitled him to crush her skull?

Sigh . . .

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Sigh . . .

Indeed. Your bankrupt calculus of moral equivalency and rhetorical justification of the Kuntars of this world is as sad as it is reprehensible. Nevertheless, I am interested in your recommendation: Do we release Kuntar to coexist with Yael's mother or not?

 

[doppelganger]

Indeed. Your bankrupt calculus of moral equivalency and rhetorical justification of the Kuntars of this world is as sad as it is reprehensible. Nevertheless, I am interested in your recommendation: Do we release Kuntar to coexist with Yael's mother or not?

My part in this nasty "conversation" is over. If you want to go back and read what I wrote sometime perhaps when you have some objective distance, feel free. You might be surprised at who was providing "justification" for the "Kuntar's of this world" in this thread.

Best regards.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You might be surprised at who was providing "justification" for the "Kuntar's of this world" in this thread..

You've been perfectly clear, both in the statements you've made and the questions you've avoided.

 

[greatcalgarian]

The Lebanon Plan

In 2006 Samir Kuntar became part of a more elaborate peace plan promoted by Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora and UN envoy Terje Rød-Larsen.[6] It included six steps:

1. The UN marks the boundary between Lebanon and Syria.
2. Syria publicly declares that the Shebaa farms are Lebanese territory.
3. The Lebanese Army takes up positions on its southern border with Israel.
4. Israel withdraws from Shebaa Farms and hands them over to Lebanon. The Israeli Air Force stops flying over Lebanese territory.
5. Siniora formally announces the end of Israeli occupation, and all militias, including Hezbollah, are disarmed.
6. Everything possible is done to investigate the fate of Ron Arad. Israel frees Samir Kuntar and all other Lebanese prisoners. Hezbollah leaves the border area.

Is this how it is going to happen? Or is it happening already?

 

[greatcalgarian]

We all felt very disgusted about the act of Samir Kuntar as described vividly in Wiki and other MSM sources.

Could we also sympathized with those listed in this web page, and how do we find justice for them?


http://babykiller.com/war_is_terrorism_and_hell/death6.html
Warning:
Disturbing war & murder, death, abortion images, photos and videos. This site is not intended for persons under 21 years of age.

And if these 8 soldiers, say, were captured by Syria or Iran, tried, and found guilty and imprison, would the US attempt to do a prisoner exchange?
Seven Marines and one Navy corpsman have been charged with murder and kidnapping in connection with the April death of an Iraqi man in a small village west of Baghdad, Marine Corps officials announced yesterday.
The corps said that the eight sought out Hashim Ibrahim Awad in his Hamdaniyah home, dragged him into the street, bound his hands and feet, and shot him during a late-night operation, according to Marine criminal-charge sheets released yesterday. The troops are members of a fire team with Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment. It is unclear what motivated the incident.

And all these?
Investigations of other alleged unlawful killings of Iraqi civilians by US soldiers are ongoing. In June the US Army charged four soldiers for the deaths of Iraqi detainees [JURIST report; US Central Command press release on charging of fourth] in the northern Salahuddin province of Iraq and charged week seven Marines and a Navy corpsman with murder and kidnapping [JURIST report] in connection with the April 26 death of an Iraqi man outside his home in Hamdania. Earlier this month, three US servicemen were charged with rape and murder and a fourth has been charged with dereliction of duty in connection with the March 12 rape and murder [JURIST report] of an Iraqi civilian and the murder of her family in Mahmudiya. A former soldier has also been charged in US federal court. A military probe into the alleged killing of 24 Iraqi civilians [JURIST report] by Marines in the city of Haditha in November, 2005 are ongoing. AP has more.

Who is fighting for the right of those Iraqi's victim? How come Washington Post did not post a lead story from the surviving victims?

 

[Booko]

We all felt very disgusted about the act of Samir Kuntar as described vividly in Wiki and other MSM sources.

Could we also sympathized with those listed in this web page, and how do we find justice for them?

I have a better idea.

How about you stay on topic.

If you want to bring up the other material, by all means start a new thread.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

From the Jerusalem Post:

Nasrallah: No deal without Kuntar

< -- snip -- >​

In the interview with the Qatar-based Al-Jazeera channel, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah vowed not to approve any prisoner exchange deal unless it included the release of Samir Kuntar. Kuntar, the longest-serving confirmed Lebanese prisoner in jail in Israel, is serving multiple life terms for the killing of three members of the Haran family and that of policeman Eliyahu Shahar in a raid on Nahariya in 1979.​

A just resolution would be the release of the Israeli soldiers followed by the transfer of Kuntar to the Lebanese authorities for summary execution.

 

[Capt. Haddock]

Why didn't the Israelis just kill him and then there would be no issue about exchanging him for anyone? People can and do slip and fall in prison showers, or hang themselves in their cells.

The Israelis are no fools: if they've kept him alive, it's for a reason. They probably intend to use him as currency in negotiations, meaning they obviously don't consider him that dangerous.

 

[kai]

Why didn't the Israelis just kill him and then there would be no issue about exchanging him for anyone? People can and do slip and fall in prison showers, or hang themselves in their cells.

The Israelis are no fools: if they've kept him alive, it's for a reason. They probably intend to use him as currency in negotiations, meaning they obviously don't consider him that dangerous.

and if they did kill him what do they get a martyr and an outcry about Israeli brutality and terror, no win situation, how many other pieces of scum are they calling captives everybody thinks these people have been abducted from their homes in the middle of the night , is there any more info on these captives

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Israelis are no fools: if they've kept him alive, it's for a reason.

Yeh - those Jews are insidious, sneaky ******** whose actions are never quite as they appear ...

What garbage!

 

[Booko]

A just resolution would be the release of the Israeli soldiers followed by the transfer of Kuntar to the Lebanese authorities for summary execution.

Is execution the customary punishment for murderers under Lebanese law?

If so, it's a solution with merit, though I doubt the Lebanese gov't could survive such an endgame.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Is execution the customary punishment for murderers under Lebanese law? If so, it's a solution with merit, though I doubt the Lebanese gov't could survive such an endgame.

I oppose the death penalty under most situations and fully approve of Israel not implementing it in Kuntar's case. However, were Lebanon to do so, it would represent a statement of transcendant import. I suspect, for example, that a country capable of such a statement would have no difficulty negotiating the Sheeba Farms.

 

[!Fluffy!]

I oppose the death penalty under most situations and fully approve of Israel not implementing it in Kuntar's case. However, were Lebanon to do so, it would represent a statement of transcendant import. I suspect, for example, that a country capable of such a statement would have no difficulty negotiating the Sheeba Farms.

The thing is Lebanon has no intention of executing him, far from it. Kuntar should never released to Lebanon because:

"Kuntar has admitted his complicity many times and actually expressed pride about the killings. Still, he has many supporters in Lebanon who maintain that he is innocent. Other supporters, alternately, claim that the Harans (including the four year-old girl) were legitimate targets and consider Kuntar to be a political prisoner."

"In 2003 Israel agreed to release around 400 prisoners in exchange for businessman Elchanan Tenenbaum and the bodies of three soldiers held by Hezbollah since 2000. Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah refused to accept the deal unless it included Samir Kuntar. "Hezbollah's conditions have become clear and defined, and we are sticking to them in all circumstances", Nasrallah declared in his statement."
--------
Israel then agreed to release Samir Kuntar as well, but only when Hezbollah provided "solid evidence" as to the fate of Ron Arad, an air force navigator missing in Lebanon since 1986. (thank God it never happened, he is still in prison at least for now)
--------
"Inspired by the prisoner swap Hamas vowed, a few days later, that they would also abduct Israeli soldiers to secure the release of Palestinian prisoners. Hassan Nasrallah simultaneously told his supporters that Hezbollah would continue to kidnap Israelis until "not a single prisoner" remained inside Israeli jails."
--------
"On July 12, 2006 Hezbollah attacked an Israeli border patrol and captured two soldiers. They were meant to be released in exchange for Samir Kuntar. In subsequent interviews on Al-Manar TV station Dr Mohamad Jawad Khalifeh, the Lebanese Minster of Health, congratulated Hezbollah for "its great actions" and said that "Lebanon has the right to regain its prisoners and liberate them". Ali Ammar, a Hezbollah member of the Lebanese Parliament, stated his opinion that "particularly at this basic stage in the history of the homeland and the nation, this government should have expressed solidarity with its people and let Samir Quntar feel that he is a Lebanese par excellence". "

wiki
​

Really I think it's time to remove the bargaining chips from the terrorists' table and eradicate monsters like this. He is simply being used as an excuse for more terrorist acts now.

"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want." --General William T. Sherman

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." --Sun Tzu

"Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right." -Isaac Asimov

 

[Capt. Haddock]

Yeh - those Jews are insidious, sneaky ******** whose actions are never quite as they appear ...

What garbage!

Oh,so you think Israelis are idiots, then?

Way to put words into the mouths of others!

What fanaticism, lack of intellect, and lack of class!!!