Satan and the Sanctity of Marriage

[Forever_Catholic]

What broader effects?

They've already started. The pressuring of the media, government and the left in general for anyone with a faith-based opposition to put it aside in favor of the new morality. Fining a business that chooses not to participate in a same-sex wedding by providing photography, flowers, or wedding cakes; talking already about taking away the tax exemptions of churches that will not perform same-sex weddings; shutting down adoption agencies that will not place children in the households of homosexual couples. There is a renewed and intensified effort to attack Christianity, and particularly the Catholic Church, unless maybe they stop viewing God as a higher authority than the worldly powers.

What will the next steps be?

 

[muichimotsu]

Firstly, you mistakenly assume this is something that people wanted to happen or that they actually agree with in practice. I certainly don't as a straight ally. There are better ways to compromise on this without undermining general principles.

Churches shouldn't have tax exemption anyway, but that's a different story. If a church starts to get itself directly involved in politics, it should lose its tax exempt status anyway, refusing gay weddings or not.

Homosexual couples should be given equal opportunity, what's the harm in that?

This is alarmist propaganda masquerading as some prophetic notion that it's been predicted and that you have some special revealed knowledge everyone else doesn't. It's self righteous and sanctimonious among other things. You think this is going to be even remotely compelling except to the lowest common denominator who moves with a leaf in the wind every time some new trend comes about that seems edgy and controversial? Think again.

The world is moving past this antiquated idea of marriage and if you really want to attack something that's destroying marriage, what about no fault divorce as it exists now, or divorce in general, or adultery? Gay marriage is not harming you except that you don't have a thick enough skin to accept how the law doesn't always agree with your personal preferences. Apparently, you're so frightened about marriage that you think extending it to a gay couple is tantamount to redefining it, which isn't remotely happening in the essence of what is maintained: monogamous couples that can, but are not required to, raise children.

 

[fantome profane]

What will the next steps be?

Probably some kind of employment protection or anti-discrimination act. Right now in many parts of the United States it is still legal to fire someone just for being gay. Or deny them housing. I think this will probably be the next thing addressed by the "Gay Agenda".

 

[leibowde84]

They've already started. The pressuring of the media, government and the left in general for anyone with a faith-based opposition to put it aside in favor of the new morality. Fining a business that chooses not to participate in a same-sex wedding by providing photography, flowers, or wedding cakes; talking already about taking away the tax exemptions of churches that will not perform same-sex weddings; shutting down adoption agencies that will not place children in the households of homosexual couples. There is a renewed and intensified effort to attack Christianity, and particularly the Catholic Church, unless maybe they stop viewing God as a higher authority than the worldly powers.

What will the next steps be?

I hate to say that anything is impossible, but, legally speaking, Churches being forced to recognize same sex marriages is about as close as it gets. That IS actually a clear violation of the free exercise clause and, seeing how this was a 5-4 decision, that is not even remotely likely to change any time soon. You are just spewing straw man arguments as if the sky is ready to fall.

 

[leibowde84]

Probably some kind of employment protection or anti-discrimination act. Right now in many parts of the United States it is still legal to fire someone just for being gay. Or deny them housing. I think this will probably be the next thing addressed by the "Gay Agenda".

It certainly seems reasonable to me. Isn't it weird that this hasn't already been done? Seems archaic to think that religious belief should be used as weapons to declare that a specific lifestyle is "sinful" according to the law. Stupid really.

 

[leibowde84]

Firstly, you mistakenly assume this is something that people wanted to happen or that they actually agree with in practice. I certainly don't as a straight ally. There are better ways to compromise on this without undermining general principles.

Churches shouldn't have tax exemption anyway, but that's a different story. If a church starts to get itself directly involved in politics, it should lose its tax exempt status anyway, refusing gay weddings or not.

Homosexual couples should be given equal opportunity, what's the harm in that?

This is alarmist propaganda masquerading as some prophetic notion that it's been predicted and that you have some special revealed knowledge everyone else doesn't. It's self righteous and sanctimonious among other things. You think this is going to be even remotely compelling except to the lowest common denominator who moves with a leaf in the wind every time some new trend comes about that seems edgy and controversial? Think again.

The world is moving past this antiquated idea of marriage and if you really want to attack something that's destroying marriage, what about no fault divorce as it exists now, or divorce in general, or adultery? Gay marriage is not harming you except that you don't have a thick enough skin to accept how the law doesn't always agree with your personal preferences. Apparently, you're so frightened about marriage that you think extending it to a gay couple is tantamount to redefining it, which isn't remotely happening in the essence of what is maintained: monogamous couples that can, but are not required to, raise children.

Wow. You are smart. Nice rebuttal. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Also, @Forever_Catholic, the Church is against a lot of things and belittle people, made people lost their homes, their businesses, their faith:

The Church advocates against

Same-sex marriage: which is Not against the Law. It is not hurting the Church; the Church will not accept it anytime soon even if they did. It is not murder. The ORIENTATION is not in the Bible. Tbe Churh says homosexuals have mental mishaps. They Do Not view it as satanic.

They say its against the sacrament of marriage. Period.

Abortion: which is killing, so I see Why the Church is against it. Again, fhe Church is not the government. Goverment and religion split yeaarss ago.

Likewise with death penalty.

Pornography. Someone here lost her business because my home parish picketed the front of the store. She had to rearange her products to "please the Church."

She should not have had to do that if the Church stayed out of her harmless business.

Birth control: Stops pregancy "before" any conception is made. Its not abortion. Its not murder yet the Church has a hand in this too.

As if the Church is still part of the the government. And whats more, the congegants act for the Church by puting down people--their right to marry, the right to consumate their love without having children (especially if there is a risk to the mother and childs life to have one), and so forth.

I love the Church only to an extent she doesnt meddle in another persons morals.

 

[columbus]

talking already about taking away the tax exemptions of churches that will not perform same-sex weddings;

I would totally support this. However, I have yet to hear about anybody actually proposing that we implement it. Could you be a little more clear about who you mean?
Tom

 

[leibowde84]

Also, @Forever_Catholic, the Church is against a lot of things and belittle people, made people lost their homes, their businesses, their faith:

The Church advocates against

Same-sex marriage: which is Not against the Law. It is not hurting the Church; the Church will not accept it anytime soon even if they did. It is not murder. The ORIENTATION is not in the Bible. Tbe Churh says homosexuals have mental mishaps. They Do Not view it as satanic.

They say its against the sacrament of marriage. Period.

Abortion: which is killing, so I see Why the Church is against it. Again, fhe Church is not the government. Goverment and religion split yeaarss ago.

Likewise with death penalty.

Pornography. Someone here lost her business because my home parish picketed the front of the store. She had to rearange her products to "please the Church."

She should not have had to do that if the Church stayed out of her harmless business.

Birth control: Stops pregancy "before" any conception is made. Its not abortion. Its not murder yet the Church has a hand in this too.

As if the Church is still part of the the government. And whats more, the congegants act for the Church by puting down people--their right to marry, the right to consumate their love without having children (especially if there is a risk to the mother and childs life to have one), and so forth.

I love the Church only to an extent she doesnt meddle in another persons morals.

I agree. Religious beliefs are not a free pass to ignore reason and basic decency. We shouldn't accept the "it's what my faith dictates" argument anymore. People should be expected to think for themselves.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I hate to say that anything is impossible, but, legally speaking, Churches being forced to recognize same sex marriages is about as close as it gets. That IS actually a clear violation of the free exercise clause and, seeing how this was a 5-4 decision, that is not even remotely likely to change any time soon. You are just spewing straw man arguments as if the sky is ready to fall.

Personally, I would be appalled if there was a law trying to force churches to perform and recognize gay marriages. It is their believes, and so long as they aren't harming anyone they should be able to practice them, no matter how much I disagree with it.

 

[Ingledsva]

The father of lies is probably even happier about the Supreme Court’s decision than the all the human same-sex marriage supporters put together. That’s because it’s part of an agenda that is critically important to him, according to Sister Lucia dos Santos of Fatima. She was one of the three children in Portugal to whom Saint Mary appeared, interacting with them in six monthly visits from May to October 1917. Do a search on Our Lady of Fatima if you’re interested in more on that.

My only point here is to throw out something Sister Lucia revealed in correspondence with Cardinal Carlo Caffarra, Archbishop of Bologna, not long before her death in 2005:

"The final battle between the Lord and the reign of Satan will be about marriage and the family. Don’t be afraid, because anyone who works for the sanctity of marriage and the family will always be fought and opposed in every way, because this is the decisive issue."

There is no evil autonomous Satan in Tanakh.

The evil Satan crap is made up later.

In Tanakh he is a servant of God. His job is to test people.

The first time he shows up in the Christian Bible, that is exactly what he does. He tests Jesus before he starts his ministry.

Also - a link to proof of the letter and what it says would be nice.


*

 

[Awkward Fingers]

talking already about taking away the tax exemptions of churches that will not perform same-sex weddings;?

Where is this happening?? Even as an atheist I'm against this..
Churches can marry whoever they want.. As long as the important part, the state, doesn't refuse.

 

[Forever_Catholic]

There is no evil autonomous Satan in Tanakh.

The evil Satan crap is made up later.

In Tanakh he is a servant of God. His job is to test people.

The first time he shows up in the Christian Bible, that is exactly what he does. He tests Jesus before he starts his ministry.

The first time he shows up in the Christian Bible is the same as in the Torah. He's in the very first book of the five that Moses wrote (Genesis). He deceives Eve to accomplish the separation of man from God in that part. Just doing his job? Did he get booted out of heaven for doing his job?

Also - a link to proof of the letter and what it says would be nice.

Here's one. There are more if you want to do a search on it, but I don't know that the entire letter was ever made public.

RORATE CÆLI: Cardinal: "What Sister Lucia told me: Final Confrontation between the Lord and Satan will be over Family and Marriage."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The first time he shows up in the Christian Bible is the same as in the Torah. He's in the very first book of the five that Moses wrote (Genesis). He deceives Eve to accomplish the separation of man from God in that part. Just doing his job? Did he get booted out of heaven for doing his job?

You can ask any Jew you want: Satan did not rebel against God, he was not cast out of Heaven, and he is very much loyal to God. Satan does nothing without God's permission.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Here's one. There are more if you want to do a search on it, but I don't know that the entire letter was ever made public.

RORATE CÆLI: Cardinal: "What Sister Lucia told me: Final Confrontation between the Lord and Satan will be over Family and Marriage."

Because every other doomsday prophet has been wrong, why should we believe this one?
The world will not end, society will not crumble, and no one is going to force you to abandon you ways. Although your ways are dying out and will soon be extinct, it's not going to be by force, but much rather like severe discrimination about blacks has died out and severe oppression against women has died out. People just don't do those anymore (although a few still wish to do so), and soon people just won't give a crap about gay marriage, and it will just be marriage.
But if there is one thing you can look forward to, it is that after what I predict will be an initial wave of pride parades dies down, and once Otherness isn't attached to homosexuals, there won't be anymore pride parades.

 

[Forever_Catholic]

Where is this happening?? Even as an atheist I'm against this..

IRS Could Revoke Non-Profit Status for Religious Institutions over Same-Sex Marriage - Breitbart

Not happening yet. We're just hearing the rumblings about it the same as we heard the rumblings about gay marriage before it became reality.

 

[muichimotsu]

The first time he shows up in the Christian Bible is the same as in the Torah. He's in the very first book of the five that Moses wrote (Genesis). He deceives Eve to accomplish the separation of man from God in that part. Just doing his job? Did he get booted out of heaven for doing his job?


Here's one. There are more if you want to do a search on it, but I don't know that the entire letter was ever made public.

RORATE CÆLI: Cardinal: "What Sister Lucia told me: Final Confrontation between the Lord and Satan will be over Family and Marriage."

You realize you're dealing with people that, more than likely don't take your prophecies seriously, let alone those that came about in the early 20th century, right?

And as for Satan, debating Jewish theology relative to Christian beliefs on most topics is sot of putting the cart before the horse. Or assuming that God apparently just had a temporary or particular meaning of chosen people and then decided to open salvation to everyone and not just the Jews?

 

[Forever_Catholic]

But if there is one thing you can look forward to, it is that after what I predict will be an initial wave of pride parades dies down, and once Otherness isn't attached to homosexuals, there won't be anymore pride parades.

Yeah, you might be right about that.

 

[Ingledsva]

The first time he shows up in the Christian Bible is the same as in the Torah. He's in the very first book of the five that Moses wrote (Genesis). He deceives Eve to accomplish the separation of man from God in that part. Just doing his job? Did he get booted out of heaven for doing his job?

ING - I think you had better finish reading the whole story! The serpent in the Genesis story is condemned to be a real serpent slithering on the ground and tasting the air. That is not the Satan story.

Here's one. There are more if you want to do a search on it, but I don't know that the entire letter was ever made public.

RORATE CÆLI: Cardinal: "What Sister Lucia told me: Final Confrontation between the Lord and Satan will be over Family and Marriage."

Again - I would like to see the letter. Authenticated.

PS. - Torah is the Jewish Bible.

*

 

[Nietzsche]

Have any of them interceded for you?

Intercede? For me personally? If you just mean helped, yes. Odin keeps an eye out. Little things. Nothing dramatic, nothing to boast. But you must understand, the relationship between myself and my Gods is not master/slave or even higher/lower. We're equals. We rule in our own realms. The AEsir & Vanir are family & friends. Not our masters. Not our betters.