Satan: God's Most Faithful Angel?

[Rainbow Mage]

Where did the Christian idea of Satan being a devil come from exactly? Certainly not from the Jewish scriptures. Let's have a look.

1 Kings 22:20 And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?' "One suggested this, and another that.

21 Finally, Ha Satan came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'

22 "'By what means?' the LORD asked. "'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. "'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'


Now we come to the story Christians say proves Satan is a devil, but let's actually examine it here.

Job 1:7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."

8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

So we see that God is the one who brought Job up, not Satan, and furthermore, God gives Satan permission to curse Job. So if God gave Satan permission, in what way did Satan disobey God?

How did Christians get this idea that Satan is a fallen angel?

 

[Eliot Wild]

I think it is the way that Satan dresses, all in black with that crazy outdated goth look. He is the perfect image of the "bad boy".

No, seriously, there are many different views on Satan. For example, many people argue that the Satan in Milton's Paradise Lost is actually a tragic hero. As far as his image in the Bible, there is of course the part where Satan tempts Jesus and gets rebuked for it.

But then again, you asked specifically about the Jewish scriptures. I don't know. I got no beef with Satan. I think he's been great for rock-n-roll music.

 

[Reptillian]

Christian views of Satan were influenced mainly by the new testament, mainly the book of Revelations and stories involving the temptation of Jesus.

 

[fallingblood]

You're missing a key point though. You're only focusing on the Hebrew scripture that is consider relevant today. However, there was also various other scripture that was relevant during the 1st century B.C.E. and C.E.

In order to understand how Satan became what he is now, one has to look at how Zoroastrianism influenced Judaism and thus Christianity. Going to that point in history when they were conquered by the Persians, and directly influenced by those beliefs would go a long way. Simply relying on the Old Testament won't do much as there is a long gap between the Old Testament and the New.

Also, you are ignoring that fact that even God evolves and changes throughout the Bible. So it would not be a stretch to claim that Satan also evolved during that time.

 

[Breathe]

The Satan that Jesus spoke of seems to remind me of Mara, and possibly mixed in with Angra Mainyu of Zoroastrianism.

The idea of Satan being an adversary of God cast out of heaven comes from a misunderstanding of Isaiah 14.

To see the KJV translation:

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

- Isaiah 14:12-15, KJV translation (deliberate choice), bold for illustrative purposes​

Modern translations tend to translate 'lucifer' as 'morning star' now, to avoid it being associated with the a story of the devil.

The chapter in talks about King Ahaz, Assyrian land, Philistines. Verse 3 effectively points out it's a taunt/rant against a Babylonian king, although who the king is supposed to be, I'm not aware.
Plus, talking about a Babylonian king, King Ahaz, Assyria, the Philistine people, etc, with an angel who rebelled against God at the beginning of the chapter seems, you know, a bit confusing.

Just my $0.02.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

That is so Odion, about it being a parable about the King of Babylon, not about an angel

 

[Penumbra]

From what I've learned, some Jews picked up some Zoroastrian influences when their culture met with that of Persia. If my memory of history lessons serves, Jews were captured by Babylon but then Babylon was defeated by Persia and the Jews were allowed to return. So I'm sure Persian culture and Jewish culture rubbed off on each other a little.

And Judaism was not one uniform group of people. There were various groups with differing beliefs, so Zoroastrian influences seemed to have affected some more than others and eventually found roots in Christianity and Islam.

Judaism supposed that satans are angels of god to test humans. Zoroastrian religion supposed that the world was a big battle between a two huge forces: one light, and one dark, with the light one being the most powerful of the two.

-Lyn

 

[Twig pentagram]

Satan and Gabriel are my favorite angels. As for the OP, I don't know why christians believe half the things they believe. I guess that's why I'm not a christian.

 

[McBell]

Can someone please show me where in the Bible that the term "satan" is used as the name of an entity and not a title?

 

[luvuyesua]

is not his name Lucifer and he became a satan which means anarchist and devil I think means rebel?

 

[gnostic]

is not his name Lucifer and he became a satan which means anarchist and devil I think means rebel?

From what I understand, Lucifer is never the name used in any Hebrew texts, until the bible was translated into Latin by St Jerome. It was certainly never assigned to any angel or fallen angel prior to the Vulgate Bible.

Christians may point out Isaiah 14, but this is misused, because it clearly referred the morning star to the King of Babylon (14:4), and not to a fallen angel. The prophecy is about Babylon (14:3-23), just as the rest of chapter referred to prophecies against Assyria (14:24-27) and the Philistines (14:28-32). It doesn't make sense that it would speak of Satan when it speaking of 3 different nations.

And you have to remember that this Lucifer or morning star also referred or is linked to Jesus as well:

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

...and indirectly to Jesus in 2 Peter 1:

And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

If you equate morning star to Lucifer and Lucifer to Satan, then you will have to equate Satan to Jesus, since 2 quotes clearly equate Lucifer to Jesus

 

[McBell]

is not his name Lucifer and he became a satan which means anarchist and devil I think means rebel?

Can someone please show me where in the Bible that the term "Lucifer" is used as the name of an entity and not a title?

 

[Twig pentagram]

Can someone please show me where in the Bible that the term "satan" is used as the name of an entity and not a title?

Read the OP.

 

[Rakhel]

Melachim I - Chapter 22 - I Kings - Torah - Bible
1 Kings 22

20. And the Lord said, 'Who will entice Ahab so that he will go up and fall in Ramoth-Gilead?' One said in this manner and another one said in that manner.
21. And a certain spirit came forth and stood before the Lord and said, 'I will entice him,' and the Lord said to him 'How?'
22. And he said, 'I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And He said, 'You will entice and you will prevail. Go forth and do so.'

Job 1

6. Now the day came about, and the angels of God came to stand beside the Lord, and the Adversary, too, came among them.
7. The Lord said to the Adversary, "Where are you coming from?" And the Adversary answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth and from walking in it."
8. Now the Lord said to the Adversary, "Have you paid attention to My servant Job? For there is none like him on earth, a sincere and upright man, God-fearing and shunning evil."
9. And the Adversary answered the Lord and said, "Does Job fear God for nothing?

Same verses, different translation

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Also, you are ignoring that fact that even God evolves and changes throughout the Bible.

Sorry to get off topic, but I think that there is a specific scripture in the New Testament, maybe in Mark's Gospel, if I am correct, that states that God never changes. I could be wrong but I remember seeing that scripture somewhere.