School, NYPD 'cannot guarantee Jewish students' safety - Columbia rabbi tells Jewish students to leave Campus

[IndigoChild5559]

Universities have limited ability to control speech

I'm sorry but I really see no excuse for these universities to allow this to go on. When a protest does not have approval, and the students refuse to disperse, you call the cops and have them all arrested. When someone calls for the genocide of Jews or promotes a known terrorist group, you expel them. The problem here is not that this is too big for universities to handle, but that the universities are simply not willing to do what it takes.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I say leave and never go back. There are people there shouting "We are Hamas", calling for the death of Netanyahu, shouting “Hamas make us proud, kill another soldier now”, calling jews "pigs", a jewish woman was kicked in her stomach and told to "kill herself".

There is no common ground with some of these people. They are terrorist sympathizers and anti semites.

Columbia University anti-Israel protesters: 5 dramatic moments from a week of chaos

Anti-Israel protesters continue to hold demonstrations at Columbia University in New York City, continuing a week of chaos that started when they pitched an encampment on campus Wednesday.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I would understand anyone to leave, but I don't think that calling for it is a smart move.
What should be done, is to spread the information that not all Jews are Israelis and that Israel doesn't represent all Jews.

Hamas does not care, they want to exterminate Jews. Listen to their leaders.

Hamas MP Marwan Abu Ras explained about Jews that, “everything people say about massacres and Holocaust – these are all lies. Hitler may have hated them, but it was because of their deeds and crimes. - June 2019

Hamas Political Bureau member Fathi Hammad implored “you seven million Palestinians abroad, enough warming up! There are Jews everywhere! We must attack every Jew on planet Earth – we must slaughter and kill them, with Allah’s help.” He instructed, “[w]e will die while exploding and cutting the necks and legs of the Jews. We will lacerate them and tear them to pieces, Allah willing!” July 2019

What Hamas Leaders Actually Want — In Their Own Words (Part 1)

From the blog of Jerry Hersh at The Times of Israel

blogs.timesofisrael.com

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I'm sorry but I really see no excuse for these universities to allow this to go on. When a protest does not have approval, and the students refuse to disperse, you call the cops and have them all arrested. When someone calls for the genocide of Jews or promotes a known terrorist group, you expel them. The problem here is not that this is too big for universities to handle, but that the universities are simply not willing to do what it takes.

I agree, the University could do more. I guarantee if this was an anti LGBTQ demonstration or pro KKK demonstration it would be dealt with.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I agree, the University could do more. I guarantee if this was an anti LGBTQ demonstration or pro KKK demonstration it would be dealt with.

Precisely. It's a flipping double standard. I can't imagine someone calling for the lynching of blacks not being expelled.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

.... It's a flipping double standard. I can't imagine someone calling for the lynching of blacks not being expelled.

^ this

 

[Debater Slayer]

I believe that threats and intimidation of people have no place on any campus whether the targets are Jewish, Muslim, or otherwise. Since October 7, both antisemitic and anti-Muslim hate incidents have increased in more than one country (for example, in the US and in England), and I don't think students should have to lose educational opportunities because of such hatred. It seems to me that universities and other institutions have a responsibility to ensure an environment free of physical threats to students and staff.

The details of many of the hate incidents are sickening, as is the political weaponization thereof by some of the very same enablers and supporters of the war and massacring of civilians, such as Tim Walberg, Ritchie Torres, and Elise Stefanik.

 

[rocala]

but honestly, this simmering anti-semitic stuff has been there on the Left for a long time!

Oh no, who woke him up?

Among those fascists and paid supporters found to have committed atrocities upon Jewish people, there were no members of the left. Among those who died fighting the Nazis, there were thousands of left-wingers. Many of those left-wingers were, in fact Jewish.

The shock might do you serious harm, but what the hell, try reading some history books and do some learning instead of slandering.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I no longer wear my star of David necklace outside the home. I worry that when I attend the Seder meal at my synagogue this Tuesday evening, that someone could target the celebration with violence.

May the celebration be peaceful, safe, and followed by better times.

I wish you a Passover as happy as the circumstances could possibly allow.

 

[Colt]

Oh no, who woke him up?

Among those fascists and paid supporters found to have committed atrocities upon Jewish people, there were no members of the left. Among those who died fighting the Nazis, there were thousands of left-wingers. Many of those left-wingers were, in fact Jewish.

The shock might do you serious harm, but what the hell, try reading some history books and do some learning instead of slandering.

That was then, this is now! Thats not the Young Republican Club at Columbia hating on Jews or stopping traffic! Those are little Left wingers for the most part expressing what they have been thinking for some time!

 

[metis]

I believe at least the students at Columbia should go on-line for the time it takes for cooler heads to prevail, and I hope that is soon.

 

[metis]

Thank you personally, and thank you to every person that supports Jews during this time of danger.

Be safe.

We are celebrating Pesach communally tonight, so my thoughts and prayers are with you.

 

[Heyo]

Hamas does not care, they want to exterminate Jews. Listen to their leaders.

Yep, and the Israeli forces are exterminating Palestinians right now (and not only Palestinians). Listen to the news.

That's why I have no sympathy for either side, and it seems that is what enables me to see the bull**** arguments on both sides. And there is a lot of bull****. Radicalization makes you blind for the dangers that come with it. Anti-Semitism is one danger for our societies and crushing legitimate protest is a danger for our democracies. But distinction and nuances go out the window when you're radicalized.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yep, and the Israeli forces are exterminating Palestinians right now (and not only Palestinians). Listen to the news.

**mod edit**There is no effort on the part of the IDF to exterminate all Gazans. They target Hamas, not Gazan civilians.

What you need to do is hold Hamas responsible for embedding among civilians, which directly leads to civilian deaths.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Yep, and the Israeli forces are exterminating Palestinians right now (and not only Palestinians). Listen to the news.

That's why I have no sympathy for either side, and it seems that is what enables me to see the bull**** arguments on both sides. And there is a lot of bull****. Radicalization makes you blind for the dangers that come with it. Anti-Semitism is one danger for our societies and crushing legitimate protest is a danger for our democracies. But distinction and nuances go out the window when you're radicalized.

They are not exterminating palestinians. They are trying to destroy Hamas for good, if they don't Israel will be attacked endlessly. The Hamas leadership talks about extermination and killing jews. The Israeli leadership does not talk genocide, they talk about killing the terrorists. Did we exterminate germans when we destroyed the Nazis? No, they were killed in war that Israel did not start. It's terrible but that is why we should avoid war at all costs, but sometimes when you are attacked and threatened you have no choice.

I posted this awhile back with zero responses:

After the October 7th Hamas attack on Israel there seems to be little clarity on the issue of Israel's response. Over 1200 people were murdered, over 3000 rockets were launched into Israel, over 200 Israeli and foreign hostages were taken, women were raped until they died and paraded around as trophies and over 30 children were murdered to just name a few of the atrocities committed by Hamas and other groups. These groups have the purpose of destroying Israel and its people as repeatedly stated by their leaders, Israel wants to be left alone to exist. It is now near 90% of the Palestinians support Hamas and 75% supported Hamas prior to the Oct 7th attack.

Israel and Hamas are not morally equivalent. Israel is the only free country in the region that is dominated by dictatorships and theocracies. In Israel, everyone is free to express their views, to criticize their government and to hold free elections. Any Palestinian that cares about human rights should be fighting to oust their own despotic rulers and adopt a free society like Israel. Free countries always are more moral than non-free countries. No one has a moral right to found or run a country on oppression and dictatorship.

The land Israel is “occupying” was captured in a war initiated by its neighbors. They have the right to control the land necessary to safeguard itself against an attack. If Hamas is left alone, they will attack Israel again and again. They have said so, they must be destroyed. If Israel puts down their weapons, it would not exist it would be destroyed by Hamas/Iran, If Hamas put down their weapons there would be peace. This is not a dispute about land or Arab vs Jew, it is a conflict of values. One side has dictatorships, oppression and terror, the other side has reason, independent judiciary, and individual freedoms etc. Hamas wants a state, not to spread freedom, but to establish a dictatorship based in oppressive religious ideology. If Israel is destroyed, there will be less freedom and more oppression in the region.

A Palestinian state run by Hamas would be a training ground for terror in Israel, US and other western states. It is not just about land, it is about ideologies and what is the correct one. The demand for Israel to negotiate or cease the war against Hamas is immoral and not realistic to maintain long term peace. When the nazis were allowed to take over Czechoslovakia as an appeasement it encouraged Hitler to start a world war. If there is a Hamas lead Palestinian state they will not be satisfied with that, they have stated they want the destruction of the west, not just Israel.

If the US (Biden) stops Israel from destroying Hamas, how can we ever justify retaliation against our own enemies? The only means we have to achieve peace in the region is to uphold the principles of a free society which entails destroying terrorism and terrorist organizations like Hamas. What other country was pressured to not retaliate against a country that sent over 300 projectiles into its borders? Was England pressured to not retaliate against German bombings? Was the US pressured not to retaliate against the Japanese bombings? Why is Israel being pressured to not retaliate against Iran? Was Ukraine ever asked to not retaliate against Russia? Israel is being asked to do something no other country has ever been asked to do. That is to not retaliate after another country/group attacked them. Israel does more than any other country to try not to kill civilians, Hamas uses their own people as shields which is despicable.

Ismail Haniyeh, Oct 7th 2023:

“Today, the enemy has had a political, military, intelligence, security and moral defeat inflicted upon it, and we shall crown it, with the grace of God, with a crushing defeat that will expel it from our lands, our holy city of Al-Quds, our Al-Aqsa mosque, and the release of our prisoners from the jails of the Zionist occupation. Operation Al-Aqsa Flood was launched from Gaza, but it will extend to the West Bank, to Al-Quds and to our people within the territories occupied in 1948, as well as to the Resistance and the Palestinian people abroad.

“Our objective is clear: we want to liberate our land, our holy sites, our Al-Aqsa mosque, our prisoners. We have no hesitation about this. This is the goal that is worthy of this battle, worthy of this heroism, worthy of this courage. Al-Qassam Brigades made the enemy lose its balance in just a few minutes, with this grand and blessed incursion; with this epic presence of men who write history with their blood and their guns; with their footsteps that crush the occupying invaders. And we say to all countries, including our beloved Arab countries: you must know that this entity which is incapable of protecting itself from our fighters is incapable of providing you with security or protection. All the normalization and recognition processes, all the agreements that have been signed can never put an end to this battle.”

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Yep, and the Israeli forces are exterminating Palestinians right now (and not only Palestinians).

That type of purposeful and disgusting hyperbole is both thoughtless and counterproductive.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm sorry but I really see no excuse for these universities to allow this to go on.

You misuse the word, "excuse".
Universities lack the power to shut down
speech. And student free speech is useful,
eg, a principal reason that we exited Vietnam.

When a protest does not have approval, and the students refuse to disperse, you call the cops and have them all arrested.

Such a strict law & order policy just won't work.
I recall when cops would crack heads at demonstrations
in the 60s. It didn't stop the demonstrations...instead,
they become more violent.
You don't gain safety by brutalizing people....this
is something that Zionists just aren't learning.

When someone calls for the genocide of Jews or promotes a known terrorist group, you expel them.

Should supporters of Israel's genocide of Palestinians
be expelled too? After all, Israel is a terrorist state.
It's highly prejudiced to paint pro Palestinian & anti
Israel demonstrators as calling for genocide of Jews,
& promoting terrorism. You disrespect legitimate
protest.

The problem here is not that this is too big for universities to handle, but that the universities are simply not willing to do what it takes.

We must accept a balance between law & order, &
slack extended to those engaging in civil disobedience.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You misuse the word, "excuse".
Universities lack the power to shut down
speech.

That's just BS. In fact, your nonsense is so outrageous that I didn't bother reading the rest of your post. Free speech has ALWAYS had limits, and the things that are being said on campus certainly cross the line. You have people actively promoting genocide and promoting a known terrorist group, for crying out loud. I'm sorry, but your credibility is now completely destroyed.

Remember also, that the constitutional right to free speech only concerns actions by the government, not private institutions. For example, the same hate speech that the government is forbidden to throw you into jail for, Religion Forums can prohibit outright if they choose to. Universities try to place a value on free speech, but there is no constitutional requirement that says they cannot draw lines in the sand.

 

[Debater Slayer]

You have people actively promoting genocide and promoting a known terrorist group, for crying out loud.

In the context of discourse about the war and which limits said discourse should have, consider that to many people—for example, many Arabs and Arab Americans (especially ones with ties to Palestinians or family and friends from there)—support for Netanyahu's government and the IDF's actions in Gaza comes across similarly to how support for Hamas comes across to you. Outrage and disgust at support for either group's killing of civilians seem to me understandable, valid, and worthy of consideration.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's just BS. In fact, your nonsense is so outrageous that I didn't bother reading the rest of your post.

Well, I find your fervent Zionism, & failure
to consider others' views troubling too.
But I'll still read your posts, & respond
thoughtfully when inspired to do so.

Even private universities must balance
allowing hostile speech, & civil disobedience
against the suppression of it. But consider
also that they have the right to allow more
speech than you'd allow.