School, NYPD 'cannot guarantee Jewish students' safety - Columbia rabbi tells Jewish students to leave Campus

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I never said that.

It was a paraphrasing. Here's what you did say:

You don’t understand that a 2 state solution is the death of Israel, a ceasefire is the death of more Israelites, Israel will live in peace but they are not allowed to, they are not bent on wiping out all palestinians, where have they said this? They have had enough of the killing by hamas and other terror groups. Hamas GOAL IS TO KILL ALL JEWS.

I think it's fair to say that "a 2 state solution is the death of Israel" implies that Hamas is so strong that it represents a threat to Israel's basic existence.

... but if you meant something else, feel free to clarify.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

They are pro Hamas

Nonsense.

I never said they did.

You just strongly implied it and linked to an article insinuating that they did.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

They are pro Hamas

Nonsense.

I never said they did.

You just strongly implied it and linked to an article insinuating that they did.

 

[metis]

Now please connect the dots from "Hamas is supported by Iran" to "displacing and murdering civilians in Gaza is okay."

That is what happens in war. Hiroshima, Nagasaki, fire bombing, etc. Name a war whereas many civilians were not killed.

Also, if Hamas stops fighting and surrenders, the conflict stops and those hostages that are still living can return home.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

It was a paraphrasing. Here's what you did say:



I think it's fair to say that "a 2 state solution is the death of Israel" implies that Hamas is so strong that it represents a threat to Israel's basic existence.

... but if you meant something else, feel free to clarify.

There can never be a 2 state solution when one state is committed to destroying the other. Hamas doesn't just want its own state, it wants to destroy Israel.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There can never be a 2 state solution when one state is committed to destroying the other.

I may be overly optimistic, but I do hope that peace can be negotiated and Israel can stop trying to destroy Palestine and its citizens.

Hamas doesn't just want its own state, it wants to destroy Israel.

It does? What makes you say that?

 

[Revoltingest]

That is what happens in war. Hiroshima, Nagasaki, fire bombing, etc. Name a war whereas many civilians are not killed.

That is a specious comparison. It does not justify all
killing of civilians in war. This depends greatly on
intent & necessity.
Bombing Japan had a military goal of stopping the war
with the entire country of Japan, ie, its populace &
government. The civilians killed served that government,
even if not as soldiers. This was successful in realizing
the goals of complete surrender & subsequent peace.
USA never intended deporting the populace to take its
land. Instead, it aided Japan's reconstruction.

Israel's "war" is upon Gaza is one wherein most people
killed weren't warring with Israel. Hamas is a smaller subset
of people in Gaza, & not its government. So Israel is killing
a populace that largely wasn't involved in the Oct attack.
Moreover, Israel has expressed intention to send them
to Africa, & take Gaza for Israel.

Really, guy...put some thought into these knee jerk
justifications of genocide. Have some humanity.

Also, if Hamas stops fighting and surrenders, the conflict stops and those hostages that are still living can return home.

Israel's long brutal treatment & now genocide of
Palestinians will do the opposite of achieving peace.
Will Zionists ever learn that?
I have high hopes & low expectations.

 

[metis]

With some, anti-Semitism seems to have no bounds. Israel is trying to defend itself and has a right to do so, and if Hamas stops fighting, the conflict is over.

 

[Revoltingest]

With some, anti-Semitism seems to have no bounds.

With some, anti-Palestinianism has no bounds.

Israel is trying to defend itself and has a right to do so, and if Hamas stops fighting, the conflict is over.

Israel isn't defending itself. Nay, what it's doing
will inspire even more violence, either by Hamas
survivors or other groups taking up arms.
Israel is waging genocide, not self defense.
Is this what your Jesus would have them do?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

It does? What makes you say that?

Because the Hamas leaders say so:

Today, the capital cities of Arab countries open their gates wide open for Netanyahu, his ministers, and the occupying and plundering Zionists, who are defiling our Jerusalem. Oh you who normalize [relations with Israel], open your capitals to [the Israelis], welcome them in your palaces, smile into their faces, honor them, and treat them nicely. But from us here in Gaza, they will never get anything but guns, fire, martyrdom, death, and killing.

Hamas Leader Yahya Sinwar 2018

Hamas Leader Yahya Sinwar Flaunts Gun Allegedly Taken from Israeli Soldiers, Saying: Gaza Will Only Give Israel Fire, Martyrdom, Death, And Killing

During a speech in eastern Khan Yunis, Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar welcomed on stage the commander of the Eastern Brigade ...

www.memri.org

"If you don't lift the siege, we will explode in the faces of our enemies, Allah willing. And the explosion won't just be in Gaza – it will also be in the West Bank and abroad, Allah willing. Our brothers abroad are still preparing. They are warming up... They have been warming up for a year and a half... Oh, you seven million Palestinians abroad, enough warming up! There are Jews everywhere! We must attack every Jew on planet Earth – we must slaughter and kill them, with Allah's help. Enough warming up!

"May the mediators and the Zionist enemy hear this message! If we die, we die – but we will die with honor, while attacking, and not while retreating! We will die while exploding and cutting the necks and legs of the Jews! We will lacerate them and tear them to pieces, Allah willing.

Fathi Hammad, Hamas Political Bureau member 2019

Hamas Political Bureau Member Fathi Hammad Calls on Palestinians All over the World to Slaughter Jews, Says: If Israel Doesn't Lift the Siege by Next Friday, We Will Kill the Jews with Explosive Belts and Knives

Hamas Political Bureau member Fathi Hammad said in a July 12, 2019 speech at a March of Return rally that aired on Al-Aq...

www.memri.org

"I believe that the occupation is heading towards annihilation, and on this platform, I swear by Allah, and let everybody remember this pledge: Those of us who will still be alive will tread with their pure feet... After we trample with our feet all over the skulls of the Zionists, we will tread on the land of Haifa, Jaffa, Tiberias, Jerusalem, and all of the West Bank and our dear [Gaza] Strip. There is no difference between the [borders of] 1967 and 1948. This lie, which fooled some defeatists in this nation, will not fool the people of this nation. Palestine is one bloc. It is either ours or ours. There is no such thing in our lexicon: 'it is either ours or theirs.' Either it will be ours or it will be ours, and this is emphasized by the blood of [Tel Aviv shooter] Raad, the blood of [Beni Brak shooter] Diaa, and the blood of the pure martyrs."

Hamas Official Talal Nassar, 2022

Hamas Official Talal Nassar Praises Tel Aviv And Bnei Brak Terror Attacks, Adds: We Will Trample The Skulls Of The Zionists; Israel Will Be Annihilated, Palestine Will Be 'Either Ours Or Ours'

Turkey-based Hamas official and political analyst Talal Nassar said in an April 8, 2022 show on the Turkey-based Egyptia...

www.memri.org

I could find many more easily.

​

 

[libre]

Hiroshima, Nagasaki, fire bombing, etc. Name a war whereas many civilians were not killed.

This could likely be another thread, but the decision to use those bombs is a case study in irresponsible and inhumane military operations.
Let's not use them as a standard of what warfare should look like.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I think it is highly dismissive to brush aside the perspectives of those who see the IDF's actions in a similar light

I'm not dismissing them. I'm insisting that the be properly characterized. Collateral damage is not the same thing as genocide.

as the actions of violent, militant organizations considering that the IDF has so far killed around 30 times as many people as Hamas did on October 7. If you can see why someone would vehemently condemn the perpetrators of a massacre of 1,200 people, the vast majority of whom were civilians, it shouldn't be difficult to see why the same applies to the perpetrators of ongoing massacres that have killed over 34,000 people, the vast majority of whom have also been civilians and about half of whom have been children.

It is foolish to thing that we have any idea how many have died. The media is dependent on the notoriously inaccurate reports from the Gazan Health Ministry, which is connected to Hamas. Remember when there was an explosion at a hospital, and it was reported that it was an Israeli missile and that 500 people had died, according to the Health Ministry? It turned out that the reality was incredibly different.
1. It was a rocket belonging to Islamic Jihad that had misfired.
2. It exploded in the parking lot, not the hospital. The reports that the hospital was destroyed were complete lies.
3. Somewhere between 12-50 people died.
IOW, the Health Ministry radically over reported the deaths by between 10x and 42x. Thus, if the Healthy Ministry is reporting a total of 34,000 dead, a more accurate estimate would be between 3,400 (assuming the lower ration of 10 to 1) and 782 (assuming 42 to 1).

You see pro-Hamas protesters shouting "Death to the Jews" and "intifada" and "We are Hamas.) IOW calls for the genocide of Jews.

What you don't see are anti-Hamas demonstrations calling for the genocide of Gazans. Are there rare individuals who do so? Undoubtedly. But its not the rhetoric of the pro-Israel side.

And think about it for a moment. Israel has nukes. If it really wanted the Gazans gone, they would already be gone.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It appears

You lost your credibility when you defended calling for genocide and tried to justify the atrocities of 10/7. I no longer read or respond to your posts.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Comumbia University's campus is criss-crossed by public streets. In most or all of the protest photos I've seen, the protestors are in the public right-of-way and not on private property.

It doesn't matter that it's difficult. It's what needs to happen.

Anyone is entitled to be on a public right-of-way and protest on it.

That is not correct. If you want to hold a protest on a public street, you must get prior approval. Without the permit, you are breaking the law. Your protest will be broken up and if you refuse to disperse, you may get arrested.

Has anyone done either of these things?

Absolutely. "Death to the Jews" and "Intifada" are both calls for genocide. "We are Hamas" is promotion of a known terrorist group.

Think: if someone called for the lynching of blacks, they would be expelled. It's a double standard.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

"You've just bombed a hospital!"
"Correction: I just bombed a terrorist. There was a terrorist in the hospital. My intention is to target terrorists."
"But you also killed hundreds of civilians!"
"But I got the terrorist! Therefore, I am doing a good job."

Although you are GROSSLY exaggerating (for example, many of the doctors and administrative staff were collaborating with Hamas, and insisting that they weren't in the hospital to protect them, or the fact that Israel gave warning before the bombing so that patients could be transferred) you essentially have it correct. The above cannot be categorized as genocide. It is properly understood as collateral damage. There have been occasions where countries have carried out targeted strikes against individuals, and others get killed in the process. That is simply part of war. The fact that the casualty rate is so high in Gaza is because Hamas chooses to embed among civilians. Why aren't you complaining about that?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It doesn't matter that it's difficult. It's what needs to happen.

I suppose "difficult" is one way to describe "illegal and unconstitutional."

That is not correct. If you want to hold a protest on a public street, you must get prior approval. Without the permit, you are breaking the law. Your protest will be broken up and if you refuse to disperse, you may get arrested.

The Supreme Court disagrees with you.

A summary:

You don’t need a permit to march in the streets or on sidewalks, as long as marchers don’t obstruct car or pedestrian traffic. If you don’t have a permit, police officers can ask you to move to the side of a street or sidewalk to let others pass or for safety reasons.

Know Your Rights | Protesters’ Rights | ACLU

The First Amendment protects your right to assemble and express your views through protest. However, police and other government officials are allowed to place certain narrow restrictions on the exercise of speech rights. Make sure you’re prepared by brushing up on your rights before heading out...

www.aclu.org

Absolutely. "Death to the Jews" and "Intifada" are goth calls for genocide. "We are Hamas" is promotion of a known terrorist group.

Think: if someone called for the lynching of blacks, they would be expelled. It's a double standard.

If those things happened, that would be a serious problem.

The fact that you stepped past my request for evidence that they are happening without even acknowledging it tells me you probably don't have any evidence that it's happening. Am I right?

 

[Revoltingest]

It appears

You lost your credibility when you defended calling for genocide and tried to justify the atrocities of 10/7. I no longer read or respond to your posts.

Not make'n a lotta sense there.

 

[Revoltingest]

"Death to the Jews" and "Intifada" are goth calls for genocide. "We are Hamas" is promotion of a known terrorist group.

We also see Jews beating Muslims, & chanting for their death.
Gods Chosen People throwing stones in their glass house.

At Jerusalem Flag March, chants of ‘Death to Arabs’ and assaults on Palestinians

Still, contentious event ends without major incident as thousands of religious nationalists participate; some attack Palestinians and reporters, sing 'May your village burn'

www.timesofisrael.com

The big difference is that Israel is actually
carrying out their intended mass murder.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I suppose "difficult" is one way to describe "illegal and unconstitutional."

Not at all.

The Supreme Court disagrees with you.

A summary:

You don’t need a permit to march in the streets or on sidewalks, as long as marchers don’t obstruct car or pedestrian traffic. If you don’t have a permit, police officers can ask you to move to the side of a street or sidewalk to let others pass or for safety reasons.

Know Your Rights | Protesters’ Rights | ACLU

The First Amendment protects your right to assemble and express your views through protest. However, police and other government officials are allowed to place certain narrow restrictions on the exercise of speech rights. Make sure you’re prepared by brushing up on your rights before heading out...

www.aclu.org

This is called switching the goalposts. We were speaking of protesting IN the streets, which means that traffic is obstructed. Now you are switching it to protesting on the sidewalks. Again, my claim here is that if you want to protest IN the street, meaning that traffic will be interfered with, you MUST have a permit. If you don't, its an illegal assembly.

Secondly, since you don't seem to mind going off on tangents, no one has the right to protest on private property without permission. The Columbia protest was set up on the lawn. It may have spilled over into the streets, but it pretty much was a protest on private property. The university has every right to determine whether it may or may not happen.

If those things happened, that would be a serious problem.

Yes, they have happened and yes, it is a serious problem.

You are welcome to view the same material I did, which was the recording from the Congressional hearing in which four administrators from Columbia University were questioned by Congress regarding their unwillingness to curb the antisemitism. Clips from the protest were shown which, yes, did include "Death to the Jews," and "intifada." However, I have to warn you that the video is extraordinarily long -- I seem to remember it lasting well over 3 hours.

As for "We are Hamas" this video includes such a clip:

 

[IndigoChild5559]

We also

Since you lost your moral credibility, I no longer read or respond to your posts.

Please stop addressing me.