School wants to beat your kid.

[Twilight Hue]

I would put this in my school stupidity thread but sometimes you can see the fustration on both sides of the coin.

I think the school was stupid in releasing such a consent form to parents, at least they asked. Lol

While I wouldnt be against a disciplinary slap or two on the bottom by parents there are effective methods that a school can use to bring back discipline where it belongs, and that is with the parents.

A school needs to keep order to effectively teach students on the tools needed to survive
in the world.

Did this school cross a line in it's request? or do you think a more traditional corporal approach to discipline would be more effective as long as it met a guideline where it would not be abusive.

In my school years, i remember seeing teachers give a couple of wacks on the bottom akin with the traditional custom of a nun slapping the piddys with a ruler.

What are your thoughts if any?

 

[Curious George]

I would put this in my school stupidity thread but sometimes you can see the fustration on both sides of the coin.

I think the school was stupid in releasing such a consent form to parents, at least they asked. Lol

While I wouldnt be against a disciplinary slap or two on the bottom by parents there are effective methods that a school can use to bring back discipline where it belongs, and that is with the parents.

A school needs to keep order to effectively teach students on the tools needed to survive
in the world.

Did this school cross a line in it's request? or do you think a more traditional corporal approach to discipline would be more effective as long as it met a guideline where it would not be abusive.

In my school years, i remember seeing teachers give a couple of wacks on the bottom akin with the traditional custom of a nun slapping the piddys with a ruler.

What are your thoughts if any?

Did you forget a link?

 

[psychoslice]

Yes back in the days they caned students there was order and respect, now they have taken all this away from schools and parents, well its gone down the toilet.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Did you forget a link?

Opps.....

I certainly did.

Thars the link.......

Alabama Elementary School Wants Permission to Beat Your Kids

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think it should be illegal, period, for adults to put their hands on kids so I'm certainly against them. I'm for punishing the adults who came up with that idea at that school.

 

[Curious George]

Opps.....

I certainly did.

Thars the link.......

Alabama Elementary School Wants Permission to Beat Your Kids

Well I would think that the link is correct in pointing out that the wording and the opt out factors make the contract ripe for litigation of any child whose parents object to the methodology employed or whose parents did not sign and the child was subjected to corporeal punishment. I do wonder what the judges would hold.

Public Schools have long been within the realm of States- not federal legislation. No Child Left Behind was in some regards an attack on this. I Believe the states should be able to create their own curricula and design their own punishment. More so, Towns and communities within the states. Local people should determine how local schools operate unless that school/ community seeks to violate the human or civil rights of the citizens.

Some may suggest that corporeal punishment has a positive/negative influence on learning, yet I do not believe that the districts that employ such have either the highest or lowest scores in the nation (I might be wrong- I have not looked it up).

Personally, I would oppose any legislation that allowed for Corporeal Punishment. I think that teachers, schools and parents can find a better way. However, I think as long as it does not cross the defined lines of abuse- then I do not have a right to interfere with how another parent wants to raise their child. In accordance with such beliefs I think that any form of consent ought to only allow for Opt-in consent.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Well I would think that the link is correct in pointing out that the wording and the opt out factors make the contract ripe for litigation of any child whose parents object to the methodology employed or whose parents did not sign and the child was subjected to corporeal punishment. I do wonder what the judges would hold.

Public Schools have long been within the realm of States- not federal legislation. No Child Left Behind was in some regards an attack on this. I Believe the states should be able to create their own curricula and design their own punishment. More so, Towns and communities within the states. Local people should determine how local schools operate unless that school/ community seeks to violate the human or civil rights of the citizens.

Some may suggest that corporeal punishment has a positive/negative influence on learning, yet I do not believe that the districts that employ such have either the highest or lowest scores in the nation (I might be wrong- I have not looked it up).

Personally, I would oppose any legislation that allowed for Corporeal Punishment. I think that teachers, schools and parents can find a better way. However, I think as long as it does not cross the defined lines of abuse- then I do not have a right to interfere with how another parent wants to raise their child. In accordance with such beliefs I think that any form of consent ought to only allow for Opt-in consent.

I agree.

My main beef with the school district was that corporal punishment is that it is considered as the default and does not allow the parents to choose willingly to support a schools disciplinary action against their kid in such a manner. Not all states allow that, though. Many states in the U.S. (mine included) have outlawed the practice.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yes back in the days they caned students there was order and respect, now they have taken all this away from schools and parents, well its gone down the toilet.

There was a logic that a minor wack early could help avoid a serious wack later by a policemen club. Or worse.,

We are obviously hardwired to a pecking orde involving levels of violence. I hate violence but realistically, such is used in every aspect throughout our lives.

I think corporal punishment teaches one that consequences in that form are an aspect of life and living as a human being. That said, there is a need for restraint as well as at times things can and do go overboard.

Light corporal punishment helps strike a realistic balance of which children seem to grasp that they now cannot be punished in that way at all. I think it develops a false sense of immunity to being "assaulted" leading to a rude awakening later on in life.
I think such a thing is an important lesson but obviously must be tempered to avoid real harm.

I saw a parent slap her bratty kid in the store on the bottom sometime ago. Two firm wacks. To my surprise, nobody reported it. They actually applauded.

 

[PolyHedral]

I Believe the states should be able to create their own curricula...

That just means that nobody understands what a given qualification represents. Since the value of having a qualification derives entirely from that understanding, the more diversity you have in cirricula, the more it detracts from that value. Imagine if large employers had to ask not only what state, but which district you came from, and then look up your qualifications on some big chart that compared them all - it'd be ridiculous! (Although very profitable for whoever was compiling the chart. )

As for violence, it should never be the end goal. If you have to be resorting to messages as crude as, "What you did is wrong, and you will get slapped/spanked/caned/beaten if you do it," you have failed as a parent/teacher, because you are also sending the message "it is acceptable to use violence to get what you want," which (should not be) is not true. It's also not very effective from a practical standpoint: if the benefit (often exhilaration from doing the forbidden thing) is high enough, he will just keep doing it and bear the pain.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That just means that nobody understands what a given qualification represents. Since the value of having a qualification derives entirely from that understanding, the more diversity you have in cirricula, the more it detracts from that value. Imagine if large employers had to ask not only what state, but which district you came from, and then look up your qualifications on some big chart that compared them all - it'd be ridiculous! (Although very profitable for whoever was compiling the chart. )

As for violence, it should never be the end goal. If you have to be resorting to messages as crude as, "What you did is wrong, and you will get slapped/spanked/caned/beaten if you do it," you have failed as a parent/teacher, because you are also sending the message "it is acceptable to use violence to get what you want," which (should not be) is not true. It's also not very effective from a practical standpoint: if the benefit (often exhilaration from doing the forbidden thing) is high enough, he will just keep doing it and bear the pain.

This sends some mixed signals. Governments use violence to get what they want. If talks break down, what do they do? They try to knock the **** out of people.

 

[Curious George]

That just means that nobody understands what a given qualification represents. Since the value of having a qualification derives entirely from that understanding, the more diversity you have in cirricula, the more it detracts from that value. Imagine if large employers had to ask not only what state, but which district you came from, and then look up your qualifications on some big chart that compared them all - it'd be ridiculous! (Although very profitable for whoever was compiling the chart. )

Then those states who are considered unqualified ought to rectify their standards. The problem was never which state from which one came. The problem was that kids were being passed along when they had not actually met the criteria the State had set.

As for violence, it should never be the end goal. If you have to be resorting to messages as crude as, "What you did is wrong, and you will get slapped/spanked/caned/beaten if you do it," you have failed as a parent/teacher, because you are also sending the message "it is acceptable to use violence to get what you want," which (should not be) is not true. It's also not very effective from a practical standpoint: if the benefit (often exhilaration from doing the forbidden thing) is high enough, he will just keep doing it and bear the pain.

I disagree it is true. What happens if someone steals something from you- you take them to court- they fail to appear- the might of our society comes in and uses force (violence if necessary) to compel a person to acquiesce. We have layered our society and created buffers to protect minority rights but it is still very much a "might makes right" philosophy we espouse. I think that there are much better ways but violence remains an option in our society.

 

[PolyHedral]

I disagree it is true. What happens if someone steals something from you- you take them to court- they fail to appear- the might of our society comes in and uses force (violence if necessary) to compel a person to acquiesce. We have layered our society and created buffers to protect minority rights but it is still very much a "might makes right" philosophy we espouse. I think that there are much better ways but violence remains an option in our society.

This sends some mixed signals. Governments use violence to get what they want. If talks break down, what do they do? They try to knock the **** out of people.

But in both of those cases, violence is being used as a last resort. With childcare, it is often used as a first resort.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I don't know, I got wacked quite alot in school. I got worse at home as a child. Then as a teenager I was drafted and the government expected me to kill people.

They put my life at risk.

I never spanked my children, but I always reserved that right. My wife tuned our daughter up once and she deserved it. Once was all it took. I must state that she went after her mother first and learned a lesson.

In school, one child can disrupt and rob the rest of the class an education. Myself, if I ever raised a hand, it would have been to get the childs attention not to punish them.

Kids need to respect their teachers.

In some schools the teacher gets beat up by students

 

[Father Heathen]

It's unfortunate that many parents don't properly discipline their children, leaving the rest of society to deal with their spoiled, ill-mannered brats, who grow up to be insufferable douche bags.

I'm all for resorting to a good, old fashioned spanking when a child's disrespectful, disobedient behavior calls for it.

 

[Me Myself]

I like the rules against physical punishments. I had been spanked just twice as a kid and it wasnt such a big deal, but I dont trust the practice of enforcing obedience by physical force. I dont believe in what it could actually teach and I find it to be best to just make it ilegal.

Thats my take on it. It doesnt need to be scarring at all, but it is good and better if it is outlawed. Other ways of discipline exist.

Self defense by part of teachers is a completely different matter though and so is defense of others.

 

[DallasApple]

Light corporal punishment helps strike a realistic balance of which children seem to grasp that they now cannot be punished in that way at all. I think it develops a false sense of immunity to being "assaulted" leading to a rude awakening later on in life.

No...other kids take care of that.Just last week my grandson who is in kindergarten was bitten by another student.Go sit on a playground for a while you will see.They slap each other push each other down etc..

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I was spanked in school, in Alabama, at that. Then when I got home, my step-dad gave it to me again. That's just how it was back then. Now, the school would actually call my parents, tell them what I did, and ask if it was ok for the principal to spank me, which my step-dad willingly assented to. Nowadays, it's considered taboo to spank your kids. Like FH said, and so did Bill Engvall, parents don't discipline their kids anymore. I spank my kids when they need it, I give them some other discipline such as time out or taking away privileges when I think that will work. But, with my two oldest being Autistic, sometimes I have to recognize when they're being Autistic, and when they're just being rotten.

Should schools be able to spank? I think, as long as the parents are notified and asked permission, absolutely. Sometimes, the kid needs spanked, and they don't get it at home. Classes should not be disrupted to extreme points.

 

[DallasApple]

Like FH said, and so did Bill Engvall, parents don't discipline their kids anymore. I spank my kids when they need it, I give them some other discipline such as time out or taking away privileges when I think that will work.

There is a complete difference in not spanking your children and not disciplining them at all.Other forms of discipline just take more time/creativity and follow through and some parents don't want to put the energy in or they don't know how.

It's unfortunate that many parents don't properly discipline their children, leaving the rest of society to deal with their spoiled, ill-mannered brats, who grow up to be insufferable douche bags.

How do you know those spoiled insufferable brats have not been spanked?In fact how do you know that's not even the primary source of discipline they received?

 

[Alceste]

Hitting children is utterly wrong at all times. I'm amazed that anyone still thinks it's OK. We don't slap the adults in our lives when they misbehave - charges could be pressed. But at least adults could defend themselves. Beating helpless children is a thousand times more brutish, idiotic and wrong. It is also positively correlated with psychological problems like depression, anxiety, a lack of healthy physical boundaries and anti-social behavior over the long term.

I've been a teacher and a nanny for years and never once felt the desire to hit a child. People who want to beat children are a completely alien species to me.

 

[DallasApple]

The stupid thing about this? My understanding is the only agreed upon "positive" result of spanking is immediate compliance.To abrubtly stop a behavior right then and there .Longer term? There are no positives the research seems to point in the opposite direction.Children are less well behaved and have more emotional problems the more they are spanked.They don't test as high either intellectually.One of the reasons is parents who don't spank rather engage in reasoning with the child are teaching them better reasoning skills.

So this "delayed" "corporal' punishment serves no purpose what so ever if you are looking to try and influence better behavior in the future.