Science has given us this and God has given us what?

[George-ananda]

I manage my expectations and assumptions so that I avoid upset and disappointment

That's good. You are actually following the practice of 'detachment from expectation' which is moving you towards inner peace. This is a spiritual practice even though you wouldn't label it so. Theists and atheists have the same needs for peace and happiness. You discovered that a spiritual teaching makes practical sense so you adopted it. All intelligent spiritual teachings are for your benefit.

 

[Mycroft]

That's good. You are actually following the practice of 'detachment from expectation' which is moving you towards inner peace. This is a spiritual practice even though you wouldn't label it so. Theists and atheists have the same needs for peace and happiness. You discovered that a spiritual teaching makes practical sense so you adopted it. All intelligent spiritual teachings are for your benefit.

But managing expectations is, for me, a purely scientific thing. Scientific method makes no expectations, it simply observes what happens and works with that. So there is nothing spiritual about it, merely practical. Even when I teach others the method, I don't use any spirituality, I simply teach them that what happens in the world is real, but while we may have expectations of people, or the world, it doesn't follow that the world or people will reflect that. So, no spirituality, just learning that letting go of expectations and using scientific method to overcome problems seems to be more efficient a way of thinking than alternatives. While you may consider it a spiritual practice, I am only using scientific method.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, I think it is possible to find inner peace without a God concept. But the inner process in achieving that inner peace is actually moving them closer to their God core whether they call it God or not.

That's rather chauvinistic. It reminds me of that line in Full Metal Jacket: "we are here to help the Vietnamese, because inside every g*** is an American trying to get out."

 

[Contemplative Cat]

There is something we can call God(afterall we have no reasons to believe God is a person)
The shunya(void), the pleroma(fullness), the absolute.

 

[George-ananda]

But managing expectations is, for me, a purely scientific thing. Scientific method makes no expectations, it simply observes what happens and works with that. So there is nothing spiritual about it, merely practical. Even when I teach others the method, I don't use any spirituality, I simply teach them that what happens in the world is real, but while we may have expectations of people, or the world, it doesn't follow that the world or people will reflect that. So, no spirituality, just learning that letting go of expectations and using scientific method to overcome problems seems to be more efficient a way of thinking than alternatives. While you may consider it a spiritual practice, I am only using scientific method.

Buddhism is an example of a scientific and practical path. It observes the cause of suffering and prescribes the cure just like you say you're doing. Whether one calls that spiritual or scientific may just be semantics is what I'm saying.

 

[Windwalker]

And also, with such a promise of eternal bliss made, can any Christian action be truly selfless?

If they understand eternal bliss narcissistically, then no. But to understand bliss as the eternal nature of existence, and themselves, and to know that in themselves, then yes.

 

[Windwalker]

Do you think that peace, wisdom, and compassion are unachievable without religion?

I don't believe religion proper is necessary, but through whatever means creates a discipline and a practice to nurture, promote, and mature these things in our lives would. Religion just traditionally happens to be the repository of these (not that everyone avails themselves of this within them, mind you). If someone can glean the teachings and disciplines elsewhere, or from them into some independent practice, then yes. That can realize these in their lives. Do you know of any sort of disciplines that teach these?

Do you think that religion helps people achieve these things more often than it hinders them?

It is completely up to the individual within them. But when they avail themselves of this, then yes. It will be helpful towards that end. If they just adopt the religion to hide their narcissism behind, then they will get what they brought in with them, and little more. Though it is arguable that simply exposure to higher truths may have an influence to some degree, whereas no exposure leaves little else. But it does come down to the individual choice for themselves.

 

[Iti oj]

What in the world. :areyoucra I don't see how that could possibly be argued.

I spent all my time ******* working to make money for some else. I am worried abiut bills and getting to work. Not simple things like food and shelter. I

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I spent all my time ******* working to make money for some else. I am worried abiut bills and getting to work. Not simple things like food and shelter. I

Of course our modern capitalistic society is ****** up and we need to change it. That doesn't mean we should turn back the clock and live like prehistoric nomads. Screw that!

 

[Iti oj]

Of course our modern capitalistic society is ****** up and we need to change it. That doesn't mean we should turn back the clock and live like prehistoric nomads. Screw that!

No onme said that. Just imply subjectivly you can view modern society as harder then prehistoric society.

 

[Iti oj]

Omg phone posting sucks. Lawl

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No onme said that. Just imply subjectivly you can view modern society as harder then prehistoric society.

I suppose that's easy to say when you've never lived like our prehistoric ancestors.

 

[Contemplative Cat]

As long as society is maintained it will expire,
The natural way is the only way to not have an expiration date.
Nature doesn't die, it changes.
But society(in nature) will pass like a cloud,
and there is nature when that happens.

Humans are part of the animal kingdom. to try and improve on that just creates many problems

 

[Mycroft]

Buddhism is an example of a scientific and practical path. It observes the cause of suffering and prescribes the cure just like you say you're doing. Whether one calls that spiritual or scientific may just be semantics is what I'm saying.

I would have to disagree. It shares many of its values, but Buddhism believes in the spirit, for which there is no scientific basis or evidence.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

As long as society is maintained it will expire,
The natural way is the only way to not have an expiration date.
Nature doesn't die, it changes.
But society(in nature) will pass like a cloud,
and there is nature when that happens.

Humans are part of the animal kingdom. to try and improve on that just creates many problems

If you really believe that, then leave NYC and go leave in the Amazonian rainforest or something. Otherwise, you're just being disingenuous as you partake in all the luxuries of the modern Western lifestyle.

 

[Contemplative Cat]

Buddhism does not posit anything mystical on purpose
Buddhism is more about the path, they don't like to describe absolutes.

 

[fantome profane]

Well we have all heard the statement in one form or fashion, right?

Science has given us medicine, and even the keypad I am typing on right now.
Where as, what we have been given by believing in God, it is often framed as, myth, fairy tales, wishful thinking, wars, dumbing down of our societies, on and on.

Familiar with everyone? I should hope so?

Some have asked of Christians, "What? Would you rather we drop science altogether and just live on what the bible tells us?"

So, I pondered that for a bit. I reasoned that if ...

Sorry, but I couldn't get past that "if".

 

[bobhikes]

I'll take living indoors with heating and AC, modern medicine, books, films, video games, music, access to clean water, food, the Internet, cars, planes, and all the other wonderful gifts of modern civilization, science and technology over living a short and brutal life in the wilderness. If you hate it so badly, go live with a remote, isolated tribe. There's still some out there. Nature can be lovely - on my terms. Sure, I'll spend a day out in the country, the woods or whatever, but I'm coming back to the city.

I never said Hate, I said there is no real improvement. Over the years whether its the 1920's, 1800's, 1700's you pick. Life has not improved for humans. These new invention's come with perks and punks. Of course you ask the average person of the time and they will tell you its the best now. Ask a senior of the time and you'll probably get a different answer.

 

[Contemplative Cat]

I did leave NYC after living as a faceless Bum sleeping in the street
Its easy to get food in the city but the woods have a chill vibe.
The woods speak to those who will actually listen.

None the less even if someone was rich they can still be close to natura. Hiking, not watching TV, sitting on porches watching sun set and rise.
Nature will still be nature when societies done.

 

[Iti oj]

I suppose that's easy to say when you've never lived like our prehistoric ancestors.

Perhaps. But I spend every day wishing for a simpler life. If all I had to do was build my home and frow my food.