Science is a false God

[Jose Fly]

Why would God tolerate the evil?

I've always found it quite surprising and disgusting when people actually attempt to justify the Old Testament's depictions of genocide. Here, we see Maximilian basically say "they were evil, so they deserved it". But when you consider what was depicted, he's saying that the 3 month old baby girl who had a sword put through her stomach by an Israeli soldier deserved what she got. And her 10 year old sister, who the soldiers found to be attractive, deserved to be taken captive by her family's killers and be forced to marry, have sex with, and bear the children of those same killers.

And these are the same people lecturing everyone else about "objective morality"? Really? Are genocide and sexual slavery of young girls objectively moral?

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

Why would God tolerate the evil?

Why did god commit and command the mass murder of innocent children? That is evil.

 

[Maximilian]

there is nothing objectively good or evil and absolute morality is nonsense.

Let's put that to the test, then, shall we:

If the KKK ever attained world domination and then eliminated everyone who thought racism and bigotry was evil, would that make racism/bigotry moral?

 

[Maximilian]

I've always found it quite surprising and disgusting when people actually attempt to justify the Old Testament's depictions of genocide. Here, we see Maximilian basically say "they were evil, so they deserved it". But when you consider what was depicted, he's saying that the 3 month old baby girl who had a sword put through her stomach by an Israeli soldier deserved what she got.

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Elizabeth Bathory, Brian And David Freeman, Nelson Byrdwell, Edmund Kemper, Joshua Phillips, Willie Bosket, Laurie Tackett, Brenda Anne Spencer, Jon Venables, Robert Thompson, Jesse Pomeroy, Mary Bell, Andrew Golden, Mitchell Johnson, Jamie Rouse, Barry Loukaitis, Talat Pasha, Margaret Sanger, Josef Mengele, Reinhard Heydrich, Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Heinrich Himmler, Adolf Eichmann, Kim Il Sung, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, Emperor Hirohito, Nero, Caligula, Attila the Hun, Genghis Khan, Leopold II of Belgium, Tomas de Torquemada, Mao Zedong, Ivan the Terrible, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Vlad Dracula once beautiful little babies too?

 

[Maximilian]

Why did god commit and command the mass murder of innocent children? That is evil.

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Elizabeth Bathory, Brian And David Freeman, Nelson Byrdwell, Edmund Kemper, Joshua Phillips, Willie Bosket, Laurie Tackett, Brenda Anne Spencer, Jon Venables, Robert Thompson, Jesse Pomeroy, Mary Bell, Andrew Golden, Mitchell Johnson, Jamie Rouse, Barry Loukaitis, Talat Pasha, Margaret Sanger, Josef Mengele, Reinhard Heydrich, Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Heinrich Himmler, Adolf Eichmann, Kim Il Sung, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, Emperor Hirohito, Nero, Caligula, Attila the Hun, Genghis Khan, Leopold II of Belgium, Tomas de Torquemada, Mao Zedong, Ivan the Terrible, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Vlad Dracula once beautiful little babies too?

 

[Maximilian]

And her 10 year old sister, who the soldiers found to be attractive, deserved to be taken captive by her family's killers and be forced to marry, have sex with, and bear the children of those same killers.

Now you're just being sensationally mendacious . . .

Rapists were executed in the ancient nation of Israel because rape is evil. (Deuteronomy 22:25-27)

Try again.

 

[Audie]

I've always found it quite surprising and disgusting when people actually attempt to justify the Old Testament's depictions of genocide. Here, we see Maximilian basically say "they were evil, so they deserved it". But when you consider what was depicted, he's saying that the 3 month old baby girl who had a sword put through her stomach by an Israeli soldier deserved what she got. And her 10 year old sister, who the soldiers found to be attractive, deserved to be taken captive by her family's killers and be forced to marry, have sex with, and bear the children of those same killers.

And these are the same people lecturing everyone else about "objective morality"? Really? Are genocide and sexual slavery of young girls objectively moral?

Typical Christian taliban.

Next, it will be time to start killing all the atheists.

 

[Jose Fly]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Elizabeth Bathory, Brian And David Freeman, Nelson Byrdwell, Edmund Kemper, Joshua Phillips, Willie Bosket, Laurie Tackett, Brenda Anne Spencer, Jon Venables, Robert Thompson, Jesse Pomeroy, Mary Bell, Andrew Golden, Mitchell Johnson, Jamie Rouse, Barry Loukaitis, Talat Pasha, Margaret Sanger, Josef Mengele, Reinhard Heydrich, Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Heinrich Himmler, Adolf Eichmann, Kim Il Sung, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, Emperor Hirohito, Nero, Caligula, Attila the Hun, Genghis Khan, Leopold II of Belgium, Tomas de Torquemada, Mao Zedong, Ivan the Terrible, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Vlad Dracula once beautiful little babies too?

Seriously? So in your belief system, genocide is not objectively immoral. Killing babies is not objectively immoral. Taking young girls as sexual slaves after you've slaughtered their families is not objectively immoral.

That's just plain disgusting.

 

[ratiocinator]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Elizabeth Bathory, Brian And David Freeman...

You're repeating yourself.

Thing is, neurotypical human beings do not deem ...gunning down of helpless little children, brutality... as merely socially improper conduct, like, say, picking your nostrils at the dinner table. Much rather, these jolt, outrage as well as horrify.

So - is the indiscriminate slaughtering of helpless little children right or wrong?

 

[Jose Fly]

Now you're just being sensationally mendacious . . .

Rapists were executed in the ancient nation of Israel because rape is evil. (Deuteronomy 22:25-27)

Try again.

Oh sure....let's consider the young virgin girl who's just witnessed her entire family be slaughtered by Israeli soldiers. The soldiers spare her because they find her to be attractive. They take her back to their village, shave her head, and lock her in a room for 30 days. Then she is expected to marry, have sex with, and bear the children of one of the soldiers.

And in your world, the girls subjected to such treatment would do all that willingly?

Again, that's just plain disgusting.

 

[Jose Fly]

Typical Christian taliban.

Next, it will be time to start killing all the atheists.

It definitely raises the question of whether or not believers like @Maximilian would commit the same atrocities if they believed God told them to. It also explains how so much past evil was committed and justified by Bible-believing Christians.

 

[Audie]

Oh sure....let's consider the young virgin girl who's just witnessed her entire family be slaughtered by Israeli soldiers. The soldiers spare her because they find her to be attractive. They take her back to their village, shave her head, and lock her in a room for 30 days. Then she is expected to marry, have sex with, and bear the children of one of the soldiers.

And in your world, the girls subjected to such treatment would do all that willingly?

Again, that's just plain disgusting.

Yes, the phrase "find her to be".

How do you suppose they "found" this info.
Handed out forms for people to fill out?

Having been subjected myself to an assault,
I have a pretty vivid imagination for how THAT might go.

But first-

Start with the days of terror leading up to the
collapse of the city defenses.

The howling horde of soldiers pouring in, the
the screams of the dying, the flames, the gore.

You know they are coming, there is no escape.
They break into the house, splattered with blood
and kill your mother, your baby brother, your old
uncle. Your father is already dead out there somewhere.

You and your sister, young enough to be virgins are
seized and,you know, inspected closely.

Then you get tied up and led away to an unknown
but definitely unattractive fate.

All as directed by and approved by god.

You can see how those ISIS guys were just
following the example set.

 

[Audie]

It definitely raises the question of whether or not believers like @Maximilian would commit the same atrocities if they believed God told them to. It also explains how so much past evil was committed and justified by Bible-believing Christians.

I do not doubt it for a split second.
Often enough, an auditory hallucination, or,
just a so strong feeling, readily accepted as
of god will come to someone. A dream!
If a person really would like to shoot up the
atheists, or savage the maidens, well, a dream
may well come from god, that it is time for that.

 

[Polymath257]

It definitely raises the question of whether or not believers like @Maximilian would commit the same atrocities if they believed God told them to. It also explains how so much past evil was committed and justified by Bible-believing Christians.

This is one reason I think that deriving a moral system from a theistic base is ultimately immoral. If you can convince yourself that God wants you to do something, it becomes not just acceptable, but *mandatory* that you do that thing.

People have managed to convince themselves that God wants them to do horrible atrocities over and over again.

If, instead, we base our system of morality on compassion, that is clearly NOT allowed.

if you can believe in an absurdity, you can commit atrocities.

 

[Jose Fly]

Yes, the phrase "find her to be".

Having been subjected myself to an assault,
I have a pretty vivid imagination for how this might go.

Start with the days of terror leading up to the
collapse of the city defenses.

The howling horde of soldiers pouring in, the
the screams of the dying, the flames, the gore.

You know they are coming, there is no escape.
They break into the house, splattered with blood
and kill your mother, your baby brother, your old
uncle. Your father is already dead out there somewhere.

You and your sister, young enough to be virgins are
seized and,you know, inspected closely.

Then you get tied up and led away to an unknown
but definitely unattractive fate.

All as directed by and approved by god.

You can see how those ISIS guys were just
following the example set.

Exactly. When you just read the verses that say things like "Go into the city and kill everything in it, except any virgins you find desirable. Those you may take for yourselves.", as horrible as that sounds it really doesn't give the whole picture. But when you consider what that must have entailed from the perspective of the victims, it's as bad as can be imagined.

 

[Jose Fly]

I do not doubt it for a split second.
Often enough, an auditory hallucination, or,
just a so strong feeling, readily accepted as
of god will come to someone. A dream!
If a person really would like to shoot up the
atheists, or savage the maidens, well, a dream
may well come from god, that it is time for that.

And as we see across history, if you get enough people to go along with you the results.....well, we all know what happens.

 

[Skreeper]

Let's put that to the test, then, shall we:

If the KKK ever attained world domination and then eliminated everyone who thought racism and bigotry was evil, would that make racism/bigotry moral?

It would make it moral for those who believe it is moral nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Jose Fly]

This is one reason I think that deriving a moral system from a theistic base is ultimately immoral. If you can convince yourself that God wants you to do something, it becomes not just acceptable, but *mandatory* that you do that thing.

People have managed to convince themselves that God wants them to do horrible atrocities over and over again.

If, instead, we base our system of morality on compassion, that is clearly NOT allowed.

if you can believe in an absurdity, you can commit atrocities.

And given what's depicted in the Bible, what could possibly stop such a person from carrying out those actions? It certainly wouldn't be anything like "I must be mistaken because God would never command such a thing". Instead, all the person has to do is convince themselves that a certain group of people are just modern-day Canaanites, and as such are evil and deserve to be wiped off the face of the earth.

 

[Maximilian]

No evidence is absolutely conclusive concerning the non-existence of something in reality. But I can put my level of confidence in the non-existence of deity in the Bible as about the same level as my confidence that there are no invisible unicorns in my office.

Frank Zappa — 'A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.'

Since you do not have conclusive evidence that Jehovah God does not nor cannot exist does this mean you're open to examining the evidence for his necessary existence objectively?

 

[Maximilian]

It would make it moral for those who believe it is moral nothing more, nothing less.

So racism and bigotry are moral? Are you racist and bigoted?