Science is a false God

[sooda]

Nobody "worships" science by current definitions. But they have a stronger belief in science than anyone who perpetuated the Spanish Inquisition. They are more "holier than thou" (generally) than any of the most devout. They see reality more in terms of their models composed largely of beliefs, extrapolations, and interpolations than most any religious person.

The situation today is far worse than it's ever been before because we have adopted "Look and See Science" which always generates a "Soup of the Day Science". More than ever people who believe in science are incapable of considering the possibility they can be wrong about anything. Opinion has been elevated to a 99.9% confidence and they'll do the math to prove it.

The problem isn't in science, it's in a deep seated misunderstanding of metaphysics, epistemology, and language. It's in a misunderstanding of the nature of life and consciousness.

Look and See Science will soon enough be the death of us all if we don't come to actually look and see its nature.

Since when is science "holier than thou"?

Speak for yourself.. I'm looking at smallpox vaccines and Polio vaccines and electric lights and airplanes.. not "gods".

The Ugarit predates the Bible and reveals Yahweh as the ...
https://www.reddit.com/.../1sqkxf/the_ugarit_predates_the_bible_and_reveals_yahweh
This text seems to show that Yahweh was known at Ugarit, though not as the Lord but as one of the many sons of El. In the earliest stage Yahweh was one of the seventy children of El, each of whom was the patron deity of one of the seventy nations.

 

[cladking]

That is nothing. You've elevated your opinions
to 100% pure fact.

Nonsense.

It is a simple fact that large numbers of people and scientists as well now believe in "Look and See Science". They believe that if you have scientific knowledge then all you have to do is look and see what's what. This is visible everywhere but my favorite example is "Egyptology" where they refuse to do basic testing and measurement of artefacts because they already KNOW that the pyramids were built with ramps. This belief permeates not only many individuals with very little scientific training or understanding but also most of the soft sciences today. It is out of control and this is a fact as well even if it's a fact based on my interpretation of current events. Today "peer review" has been added to the scientific method in many fields because the practitioners don't understand metaphysics.

All you've done is gainsaid all of my points and logic without even making a counterargument. This is exactly how "Look and See Science" works. It's whatever feels good and gives the peers a warm fuzzies.

If you want to discuss this with me I'll need to see facts, logic, and a real counterargument because I'm already accustomed to people who believe their opinions are gospel.

 

[Audie]

I'm accustomed to people who believe their opinions are gospel.

You do live with yourself after all!

 

[cladking]

Since when is science "holier than thou"?

NO!!! Science isn't "holier than thou". Only people can be holier than thou and science isn't people and has nothing to do with people. Science can't hold an opinion. Look and See Science has opinions of a sort but then Look and See Science isn't science at all.

People who believe they understand science are often holier than thou and few really understand science and even fewer understand metaphysics. We live in a strange strange world that has an infinite number of pyramids built with an infinite number of ramps but there are no worlds where pyramids were built by other means. Cosmology is stuck in the 1920's because natural science is stuck in the 1870's.

Everybody is different. Scientific "types" tend to be the most holier than thou folk who have ever inhabited the planet. It hasn't always been this way. The schools failed and became victims of 19th century science.

 

[cladking]

You do live with yourself after all!

I know the difference between opinion and knowledge. Do you?

It is my opinion that people always make sense in terms of their premises. It is a fact that most people have at least a few strange, discordant, and erroneous premises. One of these erroneous premises that is rampant today in the soft sciences is that peer review matters or that one can develop theory through observation. These are in error and EVERYONE who believes them will eventually have strange beliefs. Most people who believe them will be holier than thou.

It is my opinion that if you respond it will not be relevant to anything I said.

 

[gnostic]

People who believe they understand science are often holier than thou and few really understand science and even fewer understand metaphysics.

Metaphysics is over-rated philosophy, and today, has little to with science, because some of these mp philosophers tried to explain some things beyond the natural and the physical reality.

It is because of all these metaphysicists and the metaphysicians, who think they understand science...which they clearly don't.

The only people who thinks “holier than thou” are religion and metaphysics adherents and apologists.

And another thing, is what does the pyramids and ramps being used have to do with cosmology?

You wrote:

We live in a strange strange world that has an infinite number of pyramids built with an infinite number of ramps but there are no worlds where pyramids were built by other means. Cosmology is stuck in the 1920's because natural science is stuck in the 1870's.

Really what does 1920 cosmology have to do with pyramid-building and bloody ramps.

The only people bringing up bloody ramps in this topic, IS YOU!!!!

Really I am sick to death of "ramp" this and "ramp" that strawman. Not once did I ever bring up this stupid strawman of yours. Not once did I ever advocate "ramps".

I have been very clear, to discuss the pyramids in Old Kingdom period involved changes in design, from step-pyramid-design of the 3rd dynasty to true-pyramid-design of the 4th dynasty, It is called "progress" - design and technological progress. I was never interests in how they actually built these monuments, and I certainly wasn't interested in your silly ramp strawman.

And to date, you have not once brought up the alternative to your strawman. Or you do, is use the strawman argument, blaming your own shortcoming upon others, and not once, what did the Egyptians used if they didn't use "ramps".

If you truly know the Egyptians built the pyramids, then why haven't you presented your engineering expertise into this topic?

I know you disagree with the whole ramp things, but you haven't yet presented any engineering alternative.

Since, you haven't put actual alternative that anyone can verify, or you are doing is ranting with your "holy than thou" opinions.

 

[cladking]

Ramps are irrelevant. What is relevant is that everyone has forgotten that it is experiment that ties knowledge and understanding to reality. It is experiment that creates theory. Today many fields have added "peer review" to the scientific process because few people understand that "metaphysics" is the basis of science and experiment underlies metaphysics. Siri even defines the word in keeping with the times so there no longer even exists a word that symbolizes the basis of science. We have "Look and See Science" that isn't really science at all.

Today's scientists more than ever know everything but most will have to clear it with their colleagues before they can be certain.

"An infinite number of ramps and an infinite number of pyramids" is just short hand for saying what a mess science is in. Cosmologists think that realities pop into existence from nothing and if you can imagine it then it is real. The fact is cosmology is stuck, science is in shambles, the economy benefits the few at the expense of all, life is consciousness, and no universes exist in which pyramids were built with ramps.

It is merely observation that scientists are holier than thou. I've never seen a religious zealot maintain that 2 + 2 doesn't equal 4 but it's hardly unusual that a scientist dismisses the possibility of an original cause (such as God).

 

[sooda]

Nonsense.

It is a simple fact that large numbers of people and scientists as well now believe in "Look and See Science". They believe that if you have scientific knowledge then all you have to do is look and see what's what. This is visible everywhere but my favorite example is "Egyptology" where they refuse to do basic testing and measurement of artefacts because they already KNOW that the pyramids were built with ramps.

This belief permeates not only many individuals with very little scientific training or understanding but also most of the soft sciences today. It is out of control and this is a fact as well even if it's a fact based on my interpretation of current events. Today "peer review" has been added to the scientific method in many fields because the practitioners don't understand metaphysics.

All you've done is gainsaid all of my points and logic without even making a counterargument. This is exactly how "Look and See Science" works. It's whatever feels good and gives the peers a warm fuzzies.

If you want to discuss this with me I'll need to see facts, logic, and a real counterargument because I'm already accustomed to people who believe their opinions are gospel.

Metaphysics?

NOUN

1. the branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, substance, cause, identity, time, and space.
   • abstract theory with no basis in reality.
     "his concept of society as an organic entity is, for market liberals, simply metaphysics"

 

[cladking]

I strongly advise you to get a real dictionary before they all get tossed out and Look and See Science has redefined reality itself.

"Metaphysics" is the basis of science. If you want to argue this definition you'll have to do it with someone else because I don't argue semantics.

 

[sooda]

I strongly advise you to get a real dictionary before they all get tossed out and Look and See Science has redefined reality itself.

"Metaphysics" is the basis of science. If you want to argue this definition you'll have to do it with someone else because I don't argue semantics.

Well, I have looked at 4 dictionaries so far... What is YOUR definition of Metaphysics?

 

[gnostic]

"An infinite number of ramps and an infinite number of pyramids" is just short hand for saying what a mess science is in. Cosmologists think that realities pop into existence from nothing and if you can imagine it then it is real. The fact is cosmology is stuck, science is in shambles, the economy benefits the few at the expense of all, life is consciousness, and no universes exist in which pyramids were built with ramps.

You are making comparisons of two completely different things, pyramid-building and modern cosmology, which have nothing to do with each other.

Granted, some cosmologies are completely theoretical - examples, Oscillating or Cyclical model, Multiverse model, the Superstring Cosmology, the Big Rip, Big Crunch, Steady State (already debunked), Static Universe (belonged to Einstein, already debunked), etc - and I have not selected any of them as scientific, because they don’t meet the requirements of being Falsifiable, Scientific Method and Peer Review.

The reasons why they still exist and in contention, anyone of them are potentially possible, because the maths (equations) demonstrate they are mathematically feasible, hence theoretical proof. But none of them have showed to be “probable”, yet.

Theoretical science, theoretical physics, theoretical cosmology, are indication that they are mathematically “possible”, but “not probable”.

The only way for any of these models to be “probable”, if there were scientific, observable, verifiable or empirical EVIDENCES.

Relativity is scientific theory because the evidences support it, hence it is science or scientific. GR used to be theoretical, but very early on, some scientists have managed to discover evidences. However, not everything in General Relativity or Special Relativity are supported, because they have managed to perform experiments or they have managed to find evidences.

For instance, in GR, wormhole is still theoretical, therefore wormhole isn’t science or scientific.

Likewise in Quantum Physics, it is a scientific theory, hence it is science, however, like GR, QP have some areas that are still theoretical and hypothetical (eg Quantum Field Theory is still theoretical).

In Particle Physics, the Higgs Boson and the Higgs Field was predicted way back in the mid-1960s, but very recently (2012-13), discovered this elusive particle. So HB is no longer purely theoretical, but still more works are required, to understand this part of Particle Physics.

My points are each of these scientific theories are still work in progress, and they can be expanded or modified/updated, should we find evidences to ack them up.

And in any case, they are better than your absurdly useless “Holy than thou” Metaphysics.

As to this bloody ramp, you keep bringing up, it has nothing to do with cosmology. They are just another one of your useless ranting against science.

 

[cladking]

You are making comparisons of two completely different things, pyramid-building and modern cosmology, which have nothing to do with each other.

First of all everything has to do with everything else. Tides on the fifth planet of star in galaxy far away is probably influenced by the position of a butterfly's wings in China. Of course like everything we just don't know but everyone thinks they do.

Nowhere in reality are things more directly and more strongly influenced than in human beliefs. We simply believe pyramid builders were stinky footed bumpkins and it just kindda follows that the fittest survive and that we are all ruled by our ids. This would be true even if all things were subjected to experiment; beliefs still drives all human thought because this is the way we are wired. More accurately this is the way the digital wiring of the brain deals with analog language. Like all animals we are wired for digital language (Ancient Language), but we outgrew it when it became too complex for every individual.

We believe paying CEO's who can't build a refrigerator that lasts six months most of the wealth of the planet makes sense because they must the fittest or they wouldn't be CEO's. Obviously cream rises to the top so it's irrelevant most of the resources of the planet are being wasted in the manufacture and carting off of crap as the leaders take an ever bigger share of the wealth. Rent seeking and soup of the day science rule. Nepotism is rampant. Where are the "US Taxpayer Stadiums"? The poor are kept in line with bread and circuses as far more wealth is shoveled into landfill than is consumed.

What we believe is only overruled in scientists and only by experiment. But scientists no longer even know what metaphysics is (how science works) so all beliefs simply drive what we call science and fixes the status quo for all time.

 

[cladking]

The reasons why they still exist and in contention, anyone of them are potentially possible, because the maths (equations) demonstrate they are mathematically feasible, hence theoretical proof. But none of them have showed to be “probable”, yet.

Theoretical science, theoretical physics, theoretical cosmology, are indication that they are mathematically “possible”, but “not probable”.

So what experiment has shown that math is necessarily relevant to the nature of reality?

We misinterpret everything. I believe (it is my hypothesis based on observation and experiment) that there are no "laws of nature". Rather reality obeys logic and mathematics is merely quantified logic. Assuming these are exactly the same is how we got tripped up on the unified field theory. Well, that and Look and See Science that is no longer beholden to experiment. No, I don't bel;ieve cosmology has sunk so low that it can be called Look and See Science like most branches of what we call science but it has apparently lost its way. When impossible realities are seriously proposed to spring from nothing it is quite obvious it has lost its way.

Math and reality obey the same logic but this doesn't mean the two are the same thing or that reality is beholden in any way to math.

 

[cladking]

And in any case, they are better than your absurdly useless “Holy than thou” Metaphysics.

Nonsense!

Metaphysics is exactly what it is from every perspective. It is one of the few fixed points in modern reality.

It is scientists, specifically those who don't understand metaphysics, who are "holier than thou".

Indeed most scientists, even those who don't understand metaphysics, have at least some appreciation of their own ignorance. The ones who are truly and sincerely "holier than thou" are most of the individuals who think they understand science. Many of these individuals don't even have the equivalent of a 10th grade education in science and many are younger because the schools have failed only in the last half a century or so.

 

[sooda]

Ramps are irrelevant. What is relevant is that everyone has forgotten that it is experiment that ties knowledge and understanding to reality. It is experiment that creates theory. Today many fields have added "peer review" to the scientific process because few people understand that "metaphysics" is the basis of science and experiment underlies metaphysics. Siri even defines the word in keeping with the times so there no longer even exists a word that symbolizes the basis of science. We have "Look and See Science" that isn't really science at all.

Today's scientists more than ever know everything but most will have to clear it with their colleagues before they can be certain.

"An infinite number of ramps and an infinite number of pyramids" is just short hand for saying what a mess science is in. Cosmologists think that realities pop into existence from nothing and if you can imagine it then it is real. The fact is cosmology is stuck, science is in shambles, the economy benefits the few at the expense of all, life is consciousness, and no universes exist in which pyramids were built with ramps.

It is merely observation that scientists are holier than thou. I've never seen a religious zealot maintain that 2 + 2 doesn't equal 4 but it's hardly unusual that a scientist dismisses the possibility of an original cause (such as God).

You really should check yourself... You are awfully confused about "carbonated aquifers".

 

[cladking]

As to this bloody ramp, you keep bringing up, it has nothing to do with cosmology. They are just another one of your useless ranting against science.

You'd see the statement is nonsense if you understood my posts. "Ramps" are how I discovered ancient science and are a shorthand means of saying cosmology is stuck in the 1920's.

If you paid more attention you'd see that I have the greatest respect for modern science and metaphysics. THIS is why I hate to see it trashed by the nonsense that is "Look and See Science".

I am personally offended that belief has usurped experiment and data gathering in most of the sciences . I am appalled that soup of the day science is being used to support a status quo that is evil and corrupt. I am deeply concerned that there is no outcry from real scientists against the nonsense. I believe it is critically important to the very survival human race to get off the 4000 year detour we are on and this might be impossible until we get off the 200 year detour from the detour that is Look and See Science.

This "war" between religion and science is unnecessary because both are looking at the exact same thing from different perspectives. They are equally right and equally wrong even though science is so much more useful to the commonweal.

 

[sooda]

Nonsense!

Metaphysics is exactly what it is from every perspective. It is one of the few fixed points in modern reality.

It is scientists, specifically those who don't understand metaphysics, who are "holier than thou".

Indeed most scientists, even those who don't understand metaphysics, have at least some appreciation of their own ignorance. The ones who are truly and sincerely "holier than thou" are most of the individuals who think they understand science. Many of these individuals don't even have the equivalent of a 10th grade education in science and many are younger because the schools have failed only in the last half a century or so.

Speaking of education.. How much higher education do you have? I ask because the men in my family went to Harvard, MIT and Georgia Tech.. They don't talk about "metaphysics".

 

[cladking]

Speaking of education.. How much higher education do you have? I ask because the men in my family went to Harvard, MIT and Georgia Tech.. They don't talk about "metaphysics".

I am not a peer.

Therefore it's wholly unnecessary for anyone to consider the facts and logic I present. It doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong about anything because I'm no peer.

 

[sooda]

I am not a peer.

Therefore it's wholly unnecessary for anyone to consider the facts and logic I present. It doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong about anything because I'm no peer.

So you aren't an "equal"????

 

[Neutral Name]

I have lived my life with science and I would say that many scientists are very ignorant. They should know that they only know what has already been proven but not that which has not yet been discovered. We constantly grow in our knowledge. I can remember always hearing at different times that scientists had discovered the smallest particle of an atom. The next year I would hear the same, then the next year and so on. To say that something is impossible, is to say that they have a complete knowledge of everything. This is never possible. In the past, hundreds of years ago, scientists would say most of the things we have accomplished today were impossible. Yet, they are here. They are no longer considered magic but scientific fact. Even with quantum physics making the discoveries they have made, many scientists do not seem aware that there are other realities and that ours is just one.