Science is a false God

[Dan From Smithville]

Your signature should say, I have failed to provide objective evidence for God's existence.

He cannot, so he gives us the typical creationist playbook instead.

 

[Maximilian]

Your signature should say, I have failed to provide objective evidence for God's existence.

We're giving each other signature suggestions? Oh how fun! My turn! My turn!

Yours should read "I have ZERO evidence God does not nor cannot exist."

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

But you can't actually tell the difference between what's good and what's evil. That certainly does put things into context.

How can you worship an evil god the committed and commanded the mass murder of nonjews.

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

We're giving each other signature suggestions? Oh how fun! My turn! My turn!

Yours should read "I have ZERO evidence God does not nor cannot exist."

You can't prove something that doesn't exist.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You'd lose that bet. I'm an Empath; far, far from suffering from ASD.

I did not really consider it seriously, but I have seen no evidence for empathy either.

 

[Polymath257]

What the research shows is that those with ASD are not neurotypical which explains their lack of compassion and spirituality, both of which are innately human.

But not everyone who is an atheist is on the spectrum. All it takes is a bit of logical thought and some understanding of science and history.

Compassion is, I agree, something quite human. But it tends to be only within 'in groups' that it flourishes. The same brain areas that mediate compassion also mediate hatred for those 'outside' of the 'in group'.

Whether spirituality is innate depends on how it is defined. We all have a sense of wonder at the beauties of the universe. But that doesn't mean that belief in the Abrahamic deity is universal.

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

Lots. So do you accept all evidence or do you have ASD?

Start providing objective evidence.
Put up or shut up.

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

You really believe evil exists in the same way planets, stars, galaxies, plants, animals, water and you exist? Seriously?

So who created evil?

 

[Maximilian]

So people with ASD are not human and you also think God is evil. You have a strange position.

Are those with Down Syndrome not human either? What about those Epilepsy, Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, Ataxia Telangiectasia or any of the other 400 or so known neurological disorders? Are they not human too?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So who created evil?

I don't think you understood his question.

 

[Maximilian]

Start providing objective evidence.
Put up or shut up.

Just as soon as you answer my question directly

 

[sooda]

I just gave you a link to English translation of the late 3rd millennium BCE Sumerian poem (from 3rd dynasty of Ur) - the Death of Bilgames, in my previous post. This translation come from website called Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature (ETCSL) from Oxford University.

Personally, I preferred the translation of Andrew George, which included translation of 5 Sumerian poems that survived, relating to the later epic versions of Gilgamesh.

There are 5 extant Sumerian poems of Bilgames, that were written during the 3rd dynasty of Ur, which predated all Semitic versions of the Epic of Gilgamesh (Akkadian, Babylonian and Assyrian), starting with Old Babylonian epic of early 2nd millennium BCE.

Sumerian was both a spoken language and written language, and as a written language (Sumer cuneiform) it evolved from the inscriptions discovered in Uruk IV period (c 3350 - c 3100 BCE), proto-Sumerian cuneiform.

Sumerian proper, which you would probably know as Sumerian civilization, started in around 3100 BCE, which coincided with the start of Bronze Age, known as the Jemdet Nasr period (c 3100 - 2900 BCE).

You would also probably know Uruk as "Erech" from Genesis 10, supposedly one of the cities founded and built by Nimrod. Nimrod btw is a fictional character, because none of the known cities were built at the same time. Uruk for instance, the oldest layer of city, was built in 5000 BCE, while Nineveh was built around mid-4th millennium BCE (c 3600-3400 BCE). These dates proved that Genesis 10 is wrong about Nimrod being the founders, and some cities like Calah the oldest date is the late 2nd millennium BCE (around 1200 BCE). You could only prove Nimrod in Genesis 10 as true, if Nimrod lived for 4000 years.

Anyway Sumerian as a spoken language was only used in the 3rd millennium BCE, eclipsed by Akkadian (which is Semitic language) c 2350 - 2150 BCE. Sumerian ceased to be popular when the 3rd dynasty of Ur ended around 2004 BCE.

The 3rd dynasty of Ur was the Sumerian Renaissance that last no more than a century, from c 2112 - c 2004 BCE, was the final stage of the Sumerian spoken language.

The written Sumerian or Sumerian cuneiform survived to 1st century BCE because Akkadian had adapted Sumerian cuneiform, as did Old Babylonian and Old Assyrian, which were offshoot of Akkadian language.

Anyway, the poems of Gilgamesh (Bilgames in Sumerian) was written during the 3rd dynasty of Ur. It predated the Hebrew scriptures (Tanakh) by over 1400 years, the gospels over 2000 years and the Qur'an by 2700 years.

Why do you think I am giving you a history lesson?

I did so, that you will understand the historical contexts between the Sumerian poem and the Bible.

So to sum it up -

1. the spoken Sumerian language dated from c 3100 to c 2000 BCE;
2. Akkadian dynasty and the Akkadian language appeared from around 2350 BCE, founded by Sargon I (or Sargon of Akkad or Sargon the Great, reign c 2334 - 2284 BCE), builder of the first true empire; Akkadian became lingua franca language in Sumer.
   
3. The Sumerian poem (Death of Bilgames) was written at some time in the 3rd dynasty of Ur, a dynasty that dated between c 2112 - c 2004 BCE, where revival of Sumerian as spoken language in Ur and surrounding region.
4. Sumerian ceased to be spoken language between 2000 and 1900, giving way to Akkadian dialect from 1900 BCE, known as Old Babylonian. During the Old Babylonian period, the Epic of Gilgamesh first appeared in this language, as well as the Epic of Atrahasis. Atrahasis is the same character as the Sumerian Ziusudra and Utnapishtim (name given in Middle Babylonian and Neo-Babylonian epic), the Flood hero.

So how does Sumerian poem compared to the oldest evidence of the Bible?

The oldest evidence of writing from the bible, is fragments of scroll discovered discovered in a cave that served as a tomb at Ketef Hinnom. Archaeologists called it the Silver Scrolls, because that the material was used to write on.

This scroll only contain a small readable passage from Numbers 6, relating to the Priestly Blessings. Both the cave and scrolls (as well as other artefacts found in this cave), have been dated to between c 650 and 587 BCE, so the scroll could be as early as King Josiah of Judah (640 - 609 BCE) and the fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonian army in 587 BCE (or 586 BCE).

To date, there are no older writing (relating to the Old Testament) than Ketef Hinnom's Silver Scrolls. There are no writings in Neolithic and Bronze Age relating to Genesis and Exodus.

I've already given you my proof, by quoting the relevant passage relating to hand-washing, and given you a link that you looked up and read the Death of Bilgames from ETCSL website or you can buy Andrew George's Epic of Gilgamesh: A New Translation (Penguin Classics, 1996).

In matter of written evidences, the Sumerian poem is older than anything written by any Jew or Christian.

Can you provide older evidences that Genesis or Exodus exist earlier than Sumerian literature?​

This last question is rhetoric, because I already know that are no older evidence than the Silver Scrolls from Ketef Hinnom.

I know you are familiar with Dilmun..

Early Jewish Writings: Old Testament, Apocrypha, Dead Sea Scrolls, and More

 

[Maximilian]

All your doing is evading and dodging me asking you for objective evidence.

Admit it, all you have is subjective evidence that a god exist.

Nope, that's you. All you have is subjective evidence that God does not nor cannot exist.

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

I don't think you understood his question.

I understand his question.
He seems to know who created evil.

 

[Maximilian]

Except that the evidence *also* says that causality, time, and space are also co-existent with matter. In other words, there was no 'before the universe' and your argument for a deity fails.

With all due respect and kindness, given your apparent ASD trying to persuade you of God's existence would be as productive as attempting to explain the color blue to one who was born blind or the magnificence of a sublime aria to one who was deaf from birth . . .

I wish you all the best

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

Nope, that's you. All you have is subjective evidence that God does not nor cannot exist.

You are the one that failed to provide objective evidence that a god exist.

I don't have to provide evidence of something that doesn't exist.
You are the one claiming agod exist, so prove it with objective evidence.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Are those with Down Syndrome not human either? What about those Epilepsy, Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, Ataxia Telangiectasia or any of the other 400 or so known neurological disorders? Are they not human too?

You think people with Down Syndrome are not human either? You have decided a lot of people out of their humanity and you think you are empathic?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

With all due respect and kindness, given your apparent ASD trying to persuade you of God's existence would be as productive as attempting to explain the color blue to one who was born blind or the magnificence of a sublime aria to one who was deaf from birth . . .

I wish you all the best

Who would have guessed you were going to start deriding other posters and dismissing their arguments on an invalid diagnosis?
Oh, that is right. I did. What do you know, there are prophecies that come true.

That entire line of questioning was setting the stage.

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

With all due respect and kindness, given your apparent ASD trying to persuade you of God's existence would be as productive as attempting to explain the color blue to one who was born blind or the magnificence of a sublime aria to one who was deaf from birth . . .

I wish you all the best

Then prove your god is real.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Just as soon as you answer my question directly

You have already ignored questions I have asked, so it is little early for you to take a position of demanding others answer your questions.

Have a good evening.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

But not everyone who is an atheist is on the spectrum. All it takes is a bit of logical thought and some understanding of science and history.

Compassion is, I agree, something quite human. But it tends to be only within 'in groups' that it flourishes. The same brain areas that mediate compassion also mediate hatred for those 'outside' of the 'in group'.

Whether spirituality is innate depends on how it is defined. We all have a sense of wonder at the beauties of the universe. But that doesn't mean that belief in the Abrahamic deity is universal.

Not everyone that claims to subscribe to Christianity has empathy either.