Scientists finally prove there IS life after death

[FearGod]

If you were to take just one sentence of mine and ignore the context in which it was said, you would fail to get the meaning. In fact, I might rightly accuse you of misquoting me if you said I was saying something which the context did not support. This is common sense.

Are these verses in the quran nothing but standalone "sayings"? If so, then again, how do you get that out of it? When I first read it isolated, I sure didn't get that out of it. I got out of it what I thought it said and shared with you. When I then later referenced the whole passage, assuming it was the context I was missing and that you might have a point, I didn't find anything to support your view. On the contrary, contextually it supported what I said from what I was reading both before and after the verses.

But again, we're straying off course here quibbling about how to interpret ancient literature (something I'm familiar with, BTW). My point remains, even if the quran explicitly said something that science contradicts, you have three choices:

1. Acknowledge your interpretation isn't correct.
2. Admit the quran is wrong and accept the science.
3. Insist the quran and your interpretation of it is correct, and reject the science because the evidence doesn't agree with your beliefs.

Which of the above three are you choosing?

I didn't see a contradiction between the quran and science, if you found some, then tell me which verses?

 

[Windwalker]

I didn't see a contradiction between the quran and science, if you found some, then tell me which verses?

But back to the beginning of this leg of this whole conversation, you have explicitly stated you reject the Theory of Evolution by rejecting what you interpret from it as "random" and "luck". If that's what sciences teaches, and you reject that, then you reject what science teaches. Do you believe the quran teach this "random luck" you reject? If you don't, then how can you say there is no contradiction between what your view of the quran and science? There's clearly a contradiction. If there wasn't, you'd have no reason to argue. You wouldn't need to say science is wrong about "luck".

 

[FearGod]

But back to the beginning of this leg of this whole conversation, you have explicitly stated you reject the Theory of Evolution by rejecting what you interpret from it as "random" and "luck". If that's what sciences teaches, and you reject that, then you reject what science teaches. Do you believe the quran teach this "random luck" you reject? If you don't, then how can you say there is no contradiction between what your view of the quran and science? There's clearly a contradiction. If there wasn't, you'd have no reason to argue. You wouldn't need to say science is wrong about "luck".

No i don't believe that we're what we're as a result of chances and luck, if the quran said that
the humans were made by coincidences and chances, then i won't believe the quran itself,
because such thing doesn't make sense to me.

 

[ArtieE]

No i don't believe that we're what we're as a result of chances and luck, if the quran said that
the humans were made by coincidences and chances, then i won't believe the quran itself,
because such thing doesn't make sense to me.

What does the quran say about why Allah would exist in the first place?

 

[Windwalker]

No i don't believe that we're what we're as a result of chances and luck, if the quran said that
the humans were made by coincidences and chances, then i won't believe the quran itself,
because such thing doesn't make sense to me.

This is very telling, and opens an enormous can of worms. So you would find no fault in those who upon reading the quran would reject it because it makes no sense to them? If you yourself would do so if it made no sense to you, you can certainly respect and support those who currently reject it because it makes no sense the them, right? Unless you believe you yourself personally are the standard of truth for all the rest of humanity, rejecting both the quran and others who don't agree with you?

But that's just the first point. The other even sharper point is this. Science does not stand or fall if it "makes sense to you". If it doesn't make sense to you, then the odds are extremely high you simply lack the requisite understandings in order for it to make sense to you. This is true in any field of science, or philosophy, or just about anything that is "over your head". You head, your abilities to conceive are not the measure of truth for all truth. Hardly! Nor are mine. I can guarantee you I could present material here which is completely valid and well-supported, but it's conceptual frameworks would go sailing straight over your head. Now, because you might say, "I don't get it. That makes no sense to me," does that mean what I am saying isn't valid? No it does not.

If that was how we measured truth, nobody would be any smarter than a four year old, because just about everything in life goes straight over their heads. So when little four year old Faruk when he's told about how that the sun actually doesn't move, but we are standing on a big ball that rolls, making it look like the sun moves, and he responds, "That doesn't make any sense," now suddenly the earth is stationary and the sun moves? Physics has changed to support his mind's ability to conceive? How then can you legitimately, honestly say that because the Theory of Evolution doesn't "make sense" to you, that the adults, the scientists, the experts, the specialists, are wrong? Doesn't this sound ridiculous for you to say this?

 

[FearGod]

This is very telling, and opens an enormous can of worms. So you would find no fault in those who upon reading the quran would reject it because it makes no sense to them? If you yourself would do so if it made no sense to you, you can certainly respect and support those who currently reject it because it makes no sense the them, right? Unless you believe you yourself personally are the standard of truth for all the rest of humanity, rejecting both the quran and others who don't agree with you?

No, i don't mind if you don't find the quran as not making sense to you, everyone is free in his own belief.

But that's just the first point. The other even sharper point is this. Science does not stand or fall if it "makes sense to you". If it doesn't make sense to you, then the odds are extremely high you simply lack the requisite understandings in order for it to make sense to you. This is true in any field of science, or philosophy, or just about anything that is "over your head". You head, your abilities to conceive are not the measure of truth for all truth. Hardly! Nor are mine. I can guarantee you I could present material here which is completely valid and well-supported, but it's conceptual frameworks would go sailing straight over your head. Now, because you might say, "I don't get it. That makes no sense to me," does that mean what I am saying isn't valid? No it does not.

I said that it doesn't make sense to me that the smart human was the product of chances and luck, i didn't speak about
science and this thread isn't about what makes sense to you or to me on all fields of science.

If that was how we measured truth, nobody would be any smarter than a four year old, because just about everything in life goes straight over their heads. So when little four year old Faruk when he's told about how that the sun actually doesn't move, but we are standing on a big ball that rolls, making it look like the sun moves, and he responds, "That doesn't make any sense," now suddenly the earth is stationary and the sun moves? Physics has changed to support his mind's ability to conceive? How then can you legitimately, honestly say that because the Theory of Evolution doesn't "make sense" to you, that the adults, the scientists, the experts, the specialists, are wrong? Doesn't this sound ridiculous for you to say this?

Scientists believed that the sun was revolving around the earth and it was making sense to them, later
on they believed that the earth is revolving around the sun and it makes sense to them now, some today
is believing that all are revolving around the galaxy's center.

Many examples that what was making sense to scientists in one time found to be wrong, you're trying hard to present me
as if I'm antiscience, but no, your attempts are silly and obvious and it doesn't make sense as well.

I agree with science that life started from simpler forms to more advanced ones and it makes sense to me because
evidences proved it to be a fact, but i don't agree with some scientists views that it was due to coincidences and chances.

 

[FearGod]

What does the quran say about why Allah would exist in the first place?

Always existing, has no beginning and has no end and nothing is comparable to him.

 

[ArtieE]

Always existing, has no beginning and has no end and nothing is comparable to him.

Yes, but WHY would Allah exist instead of not exist?

 

[ArtieE]

Scientists believed that the sun was revolving around the earth

According to the Qu'ran the Earth is stationary. http://raza-e-khushtar.org/articles/concerning-the-creation/the-earth-is-stationary

 

[FearGod]

Yes, but WHY would Allah exist instead of not exist?

Nothingness doesn't produce a thing, If God exists then he's always existing.

 

[McBell]

Nothingness doesn't produce a thing, If God exists then he's always existing.

Please explain, without referencing your need for god, how the universe could not have always existed.

 

[FearGod]

According to the Qu'ran the Earth is stationary. http://raza-e-khushtar.org/articles/concerning-the-creation/the-earth-is-stationary

Which verse says that the earth is stationary?

 

[ArtieE]

Nothingness doesn't produce a thing, If God exists then he's always existing.

Yes, but WHY would there be a God instead of nothingness...

 

[FearGod]

Please explain, without referencing your need for god, how the universe could not have always existed.

Why not God then?

 

[McBell]

Which verse says that the earth is stationary?

You did not read the linked article:

"
Allah Ta’ala states in the Holy Qur’an, “And the sun moves on a prescribed course. This is the Commandment of the Most Honourable, the Most Knowing.”[Surah 36, Verse 38]

This tells us that the heavens and the earth are anchored and the stars are floating in them. The movement of the sun is until its appointed time i.e. until the Day of Judgment. [Tafseer Noorul Irfaan]"​

 

[McBell]

Why not God then?

you are claiming god yes, universe no, but have not explained why god yes, universe no.

I flat out asked you to explain why universe no without referencing your need for god.

 

[ArtieE]

Which verse says that the earth is stationary?

LOL read the article I provided. The title is "The Earth is Stationary" and it provides loads of links showing that the Qu'ran thinks the Earth is stationary.

 

[FearGod]

You did not read the linked article:

"
Allah Ta’ala states in the Holy Qur’an, “And the sun moves on a prescribed course. This is the Commandment of the Most Honourable, the Most Knowing.”[Surah 36, Verse 38]

This tells us that the heavens and the earth are anchored and the stars are floating in them. The movement of the sun is until its appointed time i.e. until the Day of Judgment. [Tafseer Noorul Irfaan]"​

If the sun is running and the earth is stationary then how the earth is still following the sun.
I read what in the link but i found that the one who authored it isn't smart.

 

[FearGod]

LOL read the article I provided. The title is "The Earth is Stationary" and it provides loads of links showing that the Qu'ran thinks the Earth is stationary.

Why you have to read links?, use your mind
tell me the verses that makes you to believe so and then I'll discuss it with you.

 

[FearGod]

you are claiming god yes, universe no, but have not explained why god yes, universe no.

I flat out asked you to explain why universe no without referencing your need for god.

You can think that the universe was always existing and not God, but for me I'm convinced that God does exist.