Sects in Islam

[A Thousand Suns]

Well I don't belong to any sect of Islam just Follow Quran and Authentic hadis
nothing more --- nothing less----IF you read Quran Sectarianism is detested by Allah(swt) in Al'Quran:

-3:103 And hold fast, all together, unto the bond with God, and do not create sects amongst you.
-3:105 And be not like those who have drawn apart from one another and have taken to conflicting views after all evidence of the truth has come unto them: for these it is for whom tremendous suffering is in store
-6:159 VERILY, as for those who have broken the unity of their faith and have become sects - thou hast nothing to do with them. Behold, their case rests with God: and in time He will make them understand what they were doing.


I know most of the Muslim community is divided in sects---this is the main reason of hate among ourselves

So Please abstain from creating or promoting Sectarianism in Islam & Divisions among Muslims.

 

[Bismillah]

I'm curious, how would your beliefs differ from a Suni for example?

 

[A Thousand Suns]

I'm curious, how would your beliefs differ from a Suni for example?

Alibi You do not have to be a Sunni, Shiah or Sufi to be a Muslim.
To be a Muslim you just need the simplest of things:

1. Declare that Allah(swt) is the one God & Muhammad(saw) was the final Messenger & Prophet.

2. Follow all the five Pillar of Islam

3. Quran and the (authentic Hadis) is the ultimate resource

When one makes Quran a part of his life, The analogy is like watering a plant & Islam grows in his heart like a tree. The More you refer Quran, the more stronger & nurtured your heart becomes in Imaan(Faith) & Ihsaan(Righteous Deeds).

Quran is the "rope" that ties all muslim ummah together, It is the uniting factor.

 

[Bismillah]

Sorry I think I didn't phrase my question correctly. It was more of a question of how you believe the various sects differ from the others and their positions on your three points, which I agree with. From what I understand, Shias reject certain hadiths that are considered authentic by Sunnis and vice versa?

 

[A Thousand Suns]

Sorry I think I didn't phrase my question correctly. It was more of a question of how you believe the various sects differ from the others and their positions on your three points, which I agree with. From what I understand, Shias reject certain hadiths that are considered authentic by Sunnis and vice versa?

According to me ,all Hadiths (either Sunni or Shii) need to be viewed with skepticism and should not be taken at face value, and Sharia should not be based on Hadith, but it should be based on Quran.

 

[Bismillah]

According to me ,all Hadiths (either Sunni or Shii) need to be viewed with skepticism and should not be taken at face value, and Sharia should not be based on Hadith, but it should be based on Quran.

Is there a separate collection of neutral hadiths that both sects accept? Otherwise on what basis do you accept hadiths termed authentic by either sect? It seems to me that until people from either sect recognize what religious beliefs separate them, they can't begin to unify.

 

[A Thousand Suns]

Is there a separate collection of neutral hadiths that both sects accept? Otherwise on what basis do you accept hadiths termed authentic by either sect? It seems to me that until people from either sect recognize what religious beliefs separate them, they can't begin to unify.

Well I don't know if there is a book with 'separate collection of neutral hadiths' but what i meant by Authentic Hadis is that it should fulfill five criteria


1) The chain is connected: This means narrator 1 heard from narrator 2 who heard from narrator 3 until this chain reaches the person being narrated about, which is most likely Muhammad(pbuh) Therefore, if narrator 1 narrates from narrator 3 without telling us about narrator 2, then the chain is disconnected.

2) That the narrators are ALL considered people who are precise in narrating the hadeeths.

3) That the narrators are ALL considered righteous Muslims.

4) That the narration isn't Odd, meaning it does not contradict a more authentic narration.

5) That the narration doesn't have any deficiencies

For example

1. Abu Huraira reported that The Prophet (PBUH) said: “All what of son of Adam will (be eaten???) by the earthexcept the coccyx from which he was created and from which he will be resurrected ”

Reported by Albukhari, Al Nassaii, Abu Daoud, Ibn Majah and Ahmad in his Mousnad and Malek in his Mouatta

 

[A Thousand Suns]

Sorry I think I didn't phrase my question correctly. It was more of a question of how you believe the various sects differ from the others and their positions on your three points, which I agree with. From what I understand, Shias reject certain hadiths that are considered authentic by Sunnis and vice versa?

And how other sects differ

For example

Suni , they are divided themselves in sub-sects You see the 4 suni Imams were respected Scholars, but they themselves were not *perfect*, and had many differences in their teachings.One simple example is the way in which Salah is performed is quite different in 4 schools.So Logically speaking, All 4 of these Scholars cannot be "right" at the same time - when there is disagreement amongst them on some topic.

Even for the sake of argument lets say I agree 95% with them but still---why do we need to create a sect when QURAN clearly forbids---we could just be Muslims and get more united :dan:

 

[Bismillah]

Thank you brother, I have always been confused between these sects. My parents are Sunnis, but I don't know to what extent it impacts our faith. I think we pray Asar at different times, but I tend to just go by the local time of my mosque. I agree that it would be better to eliminate all these sects and their influences, but how would we do so? It seems that people look to them for some basic things like prayer time and the date of Eid. You would have to be able to create a universal standard that most people could abide by.

 

[A Thousand Suns]

Thank you brother, I have always been confused between these sects. My parents are Sunnis, but I don't know to what extent it impacts our faith. I think we pray Asar at different times, but I tend to just go by the local time of my mosque. I agree that it would be better to eliminate all these sects and their influences, but how would we do so? It seems that people look to them for some basic things like prayer time and the date of Eid. You would have to be able to create a universal standard that most people could abide by.

No problem

And yes ,Majority is the same but there are small differences like you told in 'timings of prayers' little bit in 'style of prayer' which if we gather together could work them out----just like you said 'universal standard' should be made

 

[Bismillah]

However, I also think there are so fundamental differences. I know many Shias hold Hazrat Aisha in disregard, which I think to be ludicrous because after the Prophet (PBUH) himself, I think Aisha is the Muslim worlds greatest role model and a fundamental wrench in what many of the conservative right in America try to label Islam as a backwards women hating cult.

 

[Bismillah]

As well as the dispute over the succession of the prophet and the murder of the 12 (?) Immams. I am also not sure whether the Mahdi is just a Shia belief, but that he is supposed to be the hidden Imam.

 

[A Thousand Suns]

However, I also think there are so fundamental differences. I know many Shias hold Hazrat Aisha in disregard, which I think to be ludicrous because after the Prophet (PBUH) himself, I think Aisha is the Muslim worlds greatest role model and a fundamental wrench in what many of the conservative right in America try to label Islam as a backwards women hating cult.

Yeah i know ----but i was talking about Suni muslim in my previous post

I know many sects have totally altered Islam like shias, they changed the kalma , sufi they use weak hadis to manipulate people , Ahmadi they quote Quran out of context etc

Example of there plagiarism

Quoting Abu Yazid al-Bistami, sufi master

- "Praise be to me; how great is my majesty"
- "I am your Lord"
- "I am I; there is no God but I; so worship me!"
- "I saw the Kaba walking round me"
- "Moses(PBUH) desired to see God; I do not desire to see God;God desires to see me"
- "my banner is greater than that of Muhammad"

 

[Bismillah]

Exactly, so do you think that Islam will be able to overcome this differences between Shias and Sunnis. Personally, I believe that as the future generations of Islam progress, they will feel alienated from the various sects of Islam and follow Islam throw the simplest and purest way possible. That is, overtime the sect of a person will decrease in importance, unless leaders emphasize and push their political agendas such as Iran, Iraq under Saddaam, and Saudi under King Abdullah.

 

[Amica]

I think that the authentic islamic teachings are found in the Noble Qur'an. Every other detail about how one should practice Islam should come from our secondary source, the hadiths. I too believe that hadiths must be scrutinized with the help of the Qur'an, as some hadiths not only contradict themselves (based on what I have heard and read about them), but they also contradict the Noble Qur'an (i.e. punishment of apostates, stoning for adultery, forbidding women to go outside, etc).
I think that some of our people sometimes get too fixated on the hadiths, that some of them equate the hadiths to the Qur'an 100%. And this should not be, as the Qur'an is Divine Word. It is the high authority on Islam and must be respected as such.
How do we fix the sectarian problem? Impossible, until the Judgement Day.
Muslim community has suffered from two-faced peoples from its beginnings. While Allah SWT tells us about unbelieving Jews and Christians, how they are majority among the People of the Book (that only little number of them are believers), at the same time Allah SWT talks a lot about hypocrates (those among the Muslims who do nothing but cause mischief, divisions, invent lies, cause doubts in the Ummah, etc). If these hypocrates did that during the time of the Qur'an's revelation, can you imagine what these continued to do after Prophet pbuh's death? Who is not to say that perhaps they invented stories that caused the great divide among Muslims? Who is not to say that they made up hadiths that different sects follow or do not agree about?
The sad part is that people with understanding are not calling Muslims back to the Truth (Qur'an) as it was revealed. If all the Muslims in the world would to gather around the Noble Qur'an, we will find the Truth and realize what the true islamic teachings are. But, then again, there are some of our people who believe that Qur'an "underwent revisions."

 

[Healing light]

Well I don't belong to any sect of Islam just Follow Quran and Authentic hadis
nothing more --- nothing less----IF you read Quran Sectarianism is detested by Allah(swt) in Al'Quran:

-3:103 And hold fast, all together, unto the bond with God, and do not create sects amongst you.
-3:105 And be not like those who have drawn apart from one another and have taken to conflicting views after all evidence of the truth has come unto them: for these it is for whom tremendous suffering is in store
-6:159 VERILY, as for those who have broken the unity of their faith and have become sects - thou hast nothing to do with them. Behold, their case rests with God: and in time He will make them understand what they were doing.


I know most of the Muslim community is divided in sects---this is the main reason of hate among ourselves

So Please abstain from creating or promoting Sectarianism in Islam & Divisions among Muslims.

Well said!

 

[eman resu]

And how other sects differ

For example

Suni , they are divided themselves in sub-sects You see the 4 suni Imams were respected Scholars, but they themselves were not *perfect*, and had many differences in their teachings.One simple example is the way in which Salah is performed is quite different in 4 schools.So Logically speaking, All 4 of these Scholars cannot be "right" at the same time - when there is disagreement amongst them on some topic.

Even for the sake of argument lets say I agree 95% with them but still---why do we need to create a sect when QURAN clearly forbids---we could just be Muslims and get more united :dan:

sunni islam is not actually divided into 4 different sects but rather 4 different schools of thought. the difference between a sect and a school of thought is that people of different sects have conflicting ideas regarding major and minor issues while different schools of thought have differences regarding minor details but share the same basic beliefs. for example: sunni and shia are two different sects of islam, they both differ in their beliefs about the meaning of the quran/hadith so much so that they even attend different mosques and pray completley different from one another. the 4 sunni schools of thought all attend the same mosque and pray relatively in similar fashions, thus they are able to pray together.

 

[islam means peace]

I'm curious, how would your beliefs differ from a Suni for example?

Brother as far as i know (what i listen and read) , even these scholars called tehmself as shia or sunni , never say they made a sect and also say making sects in not allowed in Islam , they just say its a different 'fiqa' (thought) (not firqa) , they also said they donot have any contradictions in any basis rather some difference in other things , and say that a particular thing can be done in more then one way as long as it proved that its not islamic teaching. So some prefer one way and some other.

 

[A Thousand Suns]

Brother as far as i know (what i listen and read) , even these scholars called tehmself as shia or sunni , never say they made a sect

They never say but they do----You see this is the reason one sect says that other sect is KAFIRS/non-muslims

and also say making sects in not allowed in Islam , they just say its a different 'fiqa' (thought) (not firqa) ,

some sects have difference of opinion in almost everything-----some even contradict the Quran

 

[A Thousand Suns]

I think that the authentic islamic teachings are found in the Noble Qur'an. Every other detail about how one should practice Islam should come from our secondary source, the hadiths. I too believe that hadiths must be scrutinized with the help of the Qur'an, as some hadiths not only contradict themselves (based on what I have heard and read about them), but they also contradict the Noble Qur'an (i.e. punishment of apostates, stoning for adultery, forbidding women to go outside, etc).
I think that some of our people sometimes get too fixated on the hadiths, that some of them equate the hadiths to the Qur'an 100%. And this should not be, as the Qur'an is Divine Word. It is the high authority on Islam and must be respected as such.
How do we fix the sectarian problem? Impossible, until the Judgement Day.
Muslim community has suffered from two-faced peoples from its beginnings. While Allah SWT tells us about unbelieving Jews and Christians, how they are majority among the People of the Book (that only little number of them are believers), at the same time Allah SWT talks a lot about hypocrates (those among the Muslims who do nothing but cause mischief, divisions, invent lies, cause doubts in the Ummah, etc). If these hypocrates did that during the time of the Qur'an's revelation, can you imagine what these continued to do after Prophet pbuh's death? Who is not to say that perhaps they invented stories that caused the great divide among Muslims? Who is not to say that they made up hadiths that different sects follow or do not agree about?
The sad part is that people with understanding are not calling Muslims back to the Truth (Qur'an) as it was revealed. If all the Muslims in the world would to gather around the Noble Qur'an, we will find the Truth and realize what the true islamic teachings are. But, then again, there are some of our people who believe that Qur'an "underwent revisions."

Agreed