Secular Aggression

[Revoltingest]

If we only focus on what we can readily observe, doesn't that exclude the potential for future revelation? And does proving something make it more comfortable for those who fear the unknown and how to manage their lives?

Without imagining, there would be no discovery of colorless gases. No discovering viruses, or microscopic particles, et al.

That only seeing outwardly is believing.

Imagining is a great thing.
Believing fantasies are reality is quite another.

 

[Fool]

Then I fear that you are indeed confused. There is no "coin" there.

atheism is a belief system.

people react and act upon their beliefs. people have the ability to be extremist about their views, or beliefs.

beliefs can't be controlled and manipulated without an open mind and willingness on the believer to question their views against real world scenarios.

faith without works is fruitless.

 

[Fool]

Imagining is a great thing.
Believing fantasies are reality is quite another.

without imagining there can be no greater understanding of reality. you won't test for what you don't, or can't, imagine

 

[Revoltingest]

atheism is a belief system.

Is it really a "system" if it has a singular tentative tenet, ie....
I don't believe in gods.

That's it.
We atheists have nothing else in common.

 

[columbus]

atheism is a belief system.

No it isn't.
Really, you're just flat out wrong. That's it.
I'm not even an atheist. I just say I am because God beliefs are sometimes more complicated than they are worth explaining.
But you are still wrong. And you would know that if you listened to the nontheists instead of Believing that you can read people's minds as well as God's.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

without imagining there can be no greater understanding of reality. you won't test for what you don't, or can't, imagine

I'm not criticizing imagining...I'm supporting it.
It even used to be my profession....imagining
new things...designing & prototyping them.

 

[Fool]

Is it really a "system" if it has a singular tentative tenet, ie....
I don't believe in gods.

That's it.
We atheists have nothing else in common.

a belief system doesn't require a god, or not.

everyone, other than the unconscious, have one. having a belief system isn't about having anything in common with another.

 

[Fool]

No it isn't.
Really, you're just flat out wrong. That's it.
I'm not even an atheist. I just say I am because God beliefs are sometimes more complicated than they are worth explaining.
But you are still wrong. And you would know that if you listened to the nontheists instead of Believing that you can read people's minds as well as God's.
Tom

its got ism at the end of athe for a reason. it's a part of something.

 

[columbus]

its got ism at the end of athe for a reason. it's a part of something.

Religious people kinda insist on that.
Otherwise they would have trouble claiming that nontheism is a belief system, instead of the lack of such.
Tom

 

[Fool]

Religious people kinda insist on that.
Otherwise they would have trouble claiming that nontheism is a belief system, instead of the lack of such.
Tom

no, it's a word used to describe a person who doesn't believe in god. doesn't mean they don't have beliefs. a theists foundation starts with a god an atheist without one but that isn't the end of the beliefs. a philosophy is still a belief system.

Atheism, Agnosticism, the Brights, Humanism, etc.

 

[columbus]

no, it's a word used to describe a person who doesn't believe in god.

Exactly.
No belief in religious stuff.

Not a belief in something, no belief in something that most people do believe in.

How hard is that to grasp?
Tom

 

[Fool]

Exactly.
No belief in religious stuff.

Not a belief in something, no belief in something that most people do believe in.

How hard is that to grasp?
Tom

a belief can be positive/negative
a belief can be religious/irreligious
a belief can be organized/non-organized or personal


you're missing the point, beliefs are all that is required

a sandwich doesn't have to ham, or meat even. it doesn't have to have condiments. it doesn't have to include wheat bread vs rye.

it simply has to have bread and something else of the person's choice and/or acceptable to the person

 

[LuisDantas]

atheism is a belief system.

No, it is not. It is a specific lack of belief.

It has various degrees of compatibility with various belief systems, but it could never "be" a belief system by itself.

people react and act upon their beliefs. people have the ability to be extremist about their views, or beliefs.

Except when they don't. It is not really possible to be "extremely" atheistic. There is no simetry with theism in that regard.

People, ideologies and belief systems can often be extreme to the point of danger. Atheism lacks the sophistication to fall into that situation. It is just way too simple and inconsequential.

beliefs can't be controlled and manipulated without an open mind and willingness on the believer to question their views against real world scenarios.

faith without works is fruitless.

A better approach is not to be too vulnerable to one's own beliefs. They are not meant to have too much consequence.

 

[Fool]

No, it is not. It is a specific lack of belief.

It has various degrees of compatibility with various belief systems, but it could never "be" a belief system by itself.



Except when they don't. It is not really possible to be "extremely" atheistic. There is no simetry with theism in that regard.

People, ideologies and belief systems can often be extreme to the point of danger. Atheism lacks the sophistication to fall into that situation. It is just way too simple and inconsequential.


A better approach is not to be too vulnerable to one's own beliefs. They are not meant to have too much consequence.

self identifying is the foundation of a belief system

people have the potential to be violent, anti-social, and intolerant, no matter their belief system. there are atheists in prison and vice versa. depending on the country of origin dictates the percentages of believers incarcerated

 

[columbus]

you're missing the point, beliefs are all that is required

You are missing the point.
Atheism is the lack of belief. Atheists don't have any beliefs in common. You are tilting at a windmill.
Tom

 

[columbus]

it simply has to have bread and something else of the person's choice and/or acceptable to the person

I Believe that 2+3 always equals 5.
Does that make me a Believer, according to your meaning of the word?
Tom

 

[Fool]

You are missing the point.
Atheism is the lack of belief. Atheists don't have any beliefs in common. You are tilting at a windmill.
Tom

i don't care what its the lack of, its a belief system that lacks a god. it doesn't lack beliefs, or even a belief. i do not believe in gods is a negative belief. i do not care if there is a god is still a belief. there is nothing of reason in that. its simply a choice of believing, disbelieving, being indifferent. it has no factual context; its based solely on choice with, or without reality. every human being has a belief system no two are usually the same. everyone comes from different cultures, experiences in time and space.

 

[Fool]

I Believe that 2+3 always equals 5.
Does that make me a Believer, according to your meaning of the word?
Tom

thats a belief, yes. whether i believe it or not is irrelevant. that would be your belief.

 

[sayak83]

evangelical atheists.


that only seeing/observing externally is believing and that believing, or belief, is of no value.. reverse engineering vs engineering.

Who is aggressive against who? From your link

After the death of Hitchens, Ayaan Hirsi Ali (who attended the 2012 Global Atheist Convention, which Hitchens was scheduled to attend) was referred to as the "plus one horse-woman", since she was originally invited to the 2007 meeting of the "Horsemen" atheists but had to cancel at the last minute.[37] Hirsi Ali was born in Mogadishu, Somalia, fleeing in 1992 to the Netherlands in order to escape an arranged marriage.[38] She became involved in Dutch politics, rejected faith, and became vocal in opposing Islamic ideology, especially concerning women, as exemplified by her books Infidel and The Caged Virgin.[39]Hirsi Ali was later involved in the production of the film Submission, for which her friend Theo Van Gogh was murdered with a death threat to Hirsi Ali pinned to his chest.[40] This resulted in Hirsi Ali's hiding and later immigration to the United States, where she now resides and remains a prolific critic of Islam,[41]and the treatment of women in Islamic doctrine and society,[42] and a proponent of free speech and the freedom to offend.[43][44]

Has any of the new atheists threatened to prevent believers from practicing or proclaiming their faith in a peaceful manner? In the public square of a democratic state when did criticism of opposing views became a bad thing? Can only the Abrahamics get to piously proclaim how their "good" God will lovingly roast all nonbelievers in eternal Hell from their pews?

Also public policy should not be influenced by private revelations, correct? If one has had a private revelation, who is stopping one from living by it and encouraging others to adopt it? Why would a government follow a private revelation over another? Note,

This modern-day atheism and secularism is advanced by critics of religion,[7] a group of modern atheist thinkers and writers who advocate the view that superstition, religion and irrationalism should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever their influence arises in government, education and politics.[8] The phrase "New Atheism" was coined by Gary Wolf in a 2006 article in Wired magazine.[9]


There are many things I disagree on with them, but I have no reason to demonize a group that so far has not been either a source of violence or harm to either themselves or to others.

 

[Fool]

You are missing the point.
Atheism is the lack of belief. Atheists don't have any beliefs in common. You are tilting at a windmill.
Tom

so an atheist has a lack of belief?

so you're saying everything an atheist does, or says, is based on Absolute truth?