Secular Aggression

[Nakosis]

its got ism at the end of athe for a reason. it's a part of something.

A distinctive doctrine? I suppose the doctrine being "There is no knowledge about God". It kind of goes together with lacking a belief about God.

Secularism has nothing to do with lacking a belief in God. That's just separation of Church and State. You don't want a government telling you what you have to believe. You don't want the government telling you that you can't believe in God any more than I'd want the government telling me I had to believe in a particular God. So secularism is a good thing for both of us,

 

[Revoltingest]

a belief system doesn't require a god, or not.

Agree.
But to be called a "system", it ought to be more complex than a singular disbelief.

everyone, other than the unconscious, have one. having a belief system isn't about having anything in common with another.

Belief systems outside of atheism don't make atheism a "belief system".

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Yes. Atheists can be just as extreme as anyone else. But atheism itself is not and cannot be a belief system. Even the most explicit, strong atheist only has one belief related to it: there are no gods. One belief isn't enough for a belief system.
The same is true of theism:
Theists can be just as extreme as anyone else. But theism itself is not and cannot be a belief system. Even the most explicit, strong theist only has one belief related to it: there are gods. One belief isn't enough for a belief system.

That is not to say they can't have other beliefs which make a system of beliefs. Most anti-theists I know are as dogmatic as they pretend to be against. But that is not an inherent trait of atheism. The only inherent trait of atheism is not believing in the existence of gods. And, as already established, a 'system of beliefs' needs more than one belief.

 

[QuestioningMind]

yes, you know them as communist china, and some other suppresive regimes like like north korea.

Officially, China’s Communist Party believes in atheism, but it makes an exception for two religions

North Korea: The World's Worst Religious Persecutor | The Huffington Post

Repressive, atheist North Korea has a surprising relationship with Christian missionaries

without imagining there can be no greater understanding of reality. you won't test for what you don't, or can't, imagine

EXACTLY! Which is why simply claiming that 'God did it!' when you don't know why something happens gives you no greater understanding of reality, because instead of continuing to search for a scientific answer, you've decided to just pretend that God is responsible.

 

[QuestioningMind]

disbelief, or not belief, is a lack of belief; which would only allow for truth.

atheism is a belief that there are no gods, or an indifferent belief when considering anything else in relation to another, or something else. thus there could exist nothing beyond the five senses for a strong/positive atheist.

I don't believe in unicorns. The reason I don't believe in unicorns is because thus far no one has been able to present me with sufficient evidence to conclude that they are real. Does my lack of belief in unicorns mean that it's 'true' that there are no unicorns? Absolutely NOT! Should someone at some point present me with sufficient evidence that unicorns DO exist, I will adjust my beliefs accordingly. Thus I DO NOT hold a belief that unconscious absolutely do not exist. Though I may think that it's highly unlikely that someone will ever provide sufficient evidence that they do exist, it would be foolish of me to make the blanket declaration that they do NOT exist. I simply have a lack of belief that they DO exist.

 

[sayak83]

somethings are not testable, or provable. like constantly requesting someone prove that they love you. a person could hold the disbelief no matter how hard someone proved to them. it's a state of closed mindedness

Love is quite testable, that is how one differentiates between loving and abusive relationship, through evidence of action and behavior. Try again.

 

[Fool]

Love is quite testable, that is how one differentiates between loving and abusive relationship, through evidence of action and behavior. Try again.

the psych wards are full of people with beliefs that runs quite contrary to what is evident to some. i was speaking of close minded and fixated people.

 

[Fool]

Who does that? Science is also very much about what can potentially be observed.

The wonder of science is that it pursues what is currently unknown.

science is not necessarily observed with the senses. knowledge can come from something besides the 5 senses.

 

[Fool]

Agree.
But to be called a "system", it ought to be more complex than a singular disbelief.

Belief systems outside of atheism don't make atheism a "belief system".

then you believe an atheist, or secularist, has no beliefs?

 

[Fool]

I don't believe in unicorns. The reason I don't believe in unicorns is because thus far no one has been able to present me with sufficient evidence to conclude that they are real. Does my lack of belief in unicorns mean that it's 'true' that there are no unicorns? Absolutely NOT! Should someone at some point present me with sufficient evidence that unicorns DO exist, I will adjust my beliefs accordingly. Thus I DO NOT hold a belief that unconscious absolutely do not exist. Though I may think that it's highly unlikely that someone will ever provide sufficient evidence that they do exist, it would be foolish of me to make the blanket declaration that they do NOT exist. I simply have a lack of belief that they DO exist.

then you absolutely believe secularists, or atheists, have no beliefs?

you believe a meatless lasagna isn't a entree? a food? an example of italian cooking? a pasta dish? a food containing edible and nutritious substance?

 

[Fool]

the psych wards are full of people with beliefs that runs quite contrary to what is evident to some. i was speaking of close minded and fixated people.

Yes. Atheists can be just as extreme as anyone else. But atheism itself is not and cannot be a belief system. Even the most explicit, strong atheist only has one belief related to it: there are no gods. One belief isn't enough for a belief system.
The same is true of theism:
Theists can be just as extreme as anyone else. But theism itself is not and cannot be a belief system. Even the most explicit, strong theist only has one belief related to it: there are gods. One belief isn't enough for a belief system.

That is not to say they can't have other beliefs which make a system of beliefs. Most anti-theists I know are as dogmatic as they pretend to be against. But that is not an inherent trait of atheism. The only inherent trait of atheism is not believing in the existence of gods. And, as already established, a 'system of beliefs' needs more than one belief.

so you believe atheist only have 1 belief about the whole natural world and everything in it?

seriously a person who functions solely from one belief?

 

[Revoltingest]

then you believe an atheist, or secularist, has no beliefs?

We all have many beliefs, just unrelated to atheism.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

so you believe atheist only have 1 belief about the whole natural world and everything in it?

seriously a person who functions solely from one belief?

Atheists have many beliefs. Atheism only has one.

 

[Fool]

Atheists have many beliefs. Atheism only has one.

and that is what a belief system is. they only have one belief about god. they aren't without beliefs because even theists have positive/negative beliefs. an atheist belieff system is basically one different from a theist belief system. there are gnostic atheists, christian atheists, et al

case in point, this is a belief, skepticism is an action, i do not believe is a negative belief

Love Loves a Doubter

 

[ADigitalArtist]

and that is what a belief system is. they only have one belief about god. they aren't without beliefs because even theists have positive/negative beliefs. an atheist belieff system is basically one different from a theist belief system. there are gnostic atheists, christian atheists, et al

case in point, this is a belief, skepticism is an action, i do not believe is a negative belief

Love Loves a Doubter

Once again, atheism doesn't qualify as a belief system because atheism is one belief. An atheist can have a belief system, sure. But that belief system isn't atheism. The same is true of theism. A theist can have a number of belief systems. But that belief system isn't theism.

 

[Fool]

We all have many beliefs, just unrelated to atheism.

thats human and what belief system we choose is often based on experience, culture, and education

 

[Fool]

Once again, atheism doesn't qualify as a belief system because atheism is one belief. An atheist can have a belief system, sure. But that belief system isn't atheism. The same is true of theism. A theist can have a number of belief systems. But that belief system isn't theism.

unfortunately most atheists don't hold just the belief that there are no god(s). this is the one thing that atheists have in common but it isn't the only thing they believe about morality and their relationship to other humans and/or animals.

 

[Fool]

EXACTLY! Which is why simply claiming that 'God did it!' when you don't know why something happens gives you no greater understanding of reality, because instead of continuing to search for a scientific answer, you've decided to just pretend that God is responsible.

i'm not considered a theist

 

[Willamena]

I don't believe in unicorns. The reason I don't believe in unicorns is because thus far no one has been able to present me with sufficient evidence to conclude that they are real. Does my lack of belief in unicorns mean that it's 'true' that there are no unicorns? Absolutely NOT!

Of course not. It just means you have no belief in unicorns.

Should someone at some point present me with sufficient evidence that unicorns DO exist, I will adjust my beliefs accordingly. Thus I DO NOT hold a belief that unconscious absolutely do not exist.

Wait... I thought we were talking about unicorns.

Though I may think that it's highly unlikely that someone will ever provide sufficient evidence that they do exist, it would be foolish of me to make the blanket declaration that they do NOT exist. I simply have a lack of belief that they DO exist.

Well done ambiguity.

 

[sayak83]

the psych wards are full of people with beliefs that runs quite contrary to what is evident to some. i was speaking of close minded and fixated people.

And who precisely is closed minded. Why do you think so? Even if they are in some cases, what of it? Everybody is close minded on something.