Secure in your convictions?

[Halcyon]

Can you be 100% secure in the validity of your beliefs, but also become upset when someone challenges that validity? I think not.

Here's my reasoning behind the above statement;

I can understand that it must be annoying and even hurtful to have your beliefs put down as nonsense or silly etc...
However, if you are truly secure in your faith, nothing anyone can say should really upset you as you know what you believe to be right.

Surely a problem only arises when what someone says triggers doubt within yourself, it is the anger and confusion from within yourself that upsets you, not anothers ignorant viewpoint.

Any thoughts?

 

[Sunstone]

I think that's generally true, Halcyon. The less secure you are in your beliefs, the more testy you tend to be about challenges to them. But I've met a few people that seemed both very convinced of their beliefs and strangely testy about challenges to them. So, I'm not sure it always holds true. Maybe some people are just testy about challenges to their beliefs, no matter how secure they are in those beliefs.

 

[jonny]

I disagree. I get upset when people spread lies and rumors about me even if they have nothing to do with my religious beliefs. It isn't because I am insecure. It is because I hate lies.

Challenging the validity is another topic though, but people tend to lump them together when it comes to religion. My reaction to someone challenging my beliefs has a lot to do with their attitude when approaching the subject. If someone challenges my beliefs in a respectful manner, there should be no reason why it should upset me. If it does upset me your analysis is probably true.

On the other hand, if someone goes off on a rant about how I'm "the devil" (to use a phrase from waterboy), I do get defensive sometimes because they are usually trying to be insulting. The third category of my feelings would be annoyed. There are some people who annoy me when they challenge the validity of my faith. They refuse to listen and think for themselves, they just want to bash. These are usually people who seem to live for no purpose other than to insult other people's beliefs. People like this annoy me in general. If they were doing the same thing over sports I'd be just as annoyed as I am when they do it regarding religion.

It isn't doubt in my mind that upsets me. It is the ignorance and intolerance of some people that upsets me. If it were the doubt that upsets me it would only be strong arguments that get me upset. That isn't true. I usually get a lot more upset over the stupid claims that insult my intelligence.

 

[Buttons*]

I believe that's true, for the most part.
I dont see why anyone should have to doubt what they feel unless they arent truly secure with their belief. If i challenge people on their beliefs, which i have a tendency to do, usually they get quiet or fall at a question. It's interesting...

 

[Halcyon]

I think that's generally true, Halcyon. The less secure you are in your beliefs, the more testy you tend to be about challenges to them. But I've met a few people that seemed both very convinced of their beliefs and strangely testy about challenges to them. So, I'm not sure it always holds true. Maybe some people are just testy about challenges to their beliefs, no matter how secure they are in those beliefs.

Maybe they appeared very secure on the surface, but were in turmoil inside? Perhaps they convinced themselves that they were 100% secure, but challenges to their beliefs trigger doubts they desperately try to suppress?

But, who can say what really goes on inside a person but the person themselves.

 

[jonny]

Maybe they appeared very secure on the surface, but were in turmoil inside? Perhaps they convinced themselves that they were 100% secure, but challenges to their beliefs trigger doubts they desperately try to suppress?

But, who can say what really goes on inside a person but the person themselves.

There was a time in my life when I felt the way you described above - secure on the surface but turmoil inside. It didn't make me defensive. I was depressed and when people challenged my beliefs I was apathetic. I can't speak for everyone, but that's how I reacted.

 

[Katzpur]

Can you be 100% secure in the validity of your beliefs, but also become upset when someone challenges that validity? I think not.

I don't think you can.

Here's my reasoning behind the above statement;

I can understand that it must be annoying and even hurtful to have your beliefs put down as nonsense or silly etc...
However, if you are truly secure in your faith, nothing anyone can say should really upset you as you know what you believe to be right.

Surely a problem only arises when what someone says triggers doubt within yourself, it is the anger and confusion from within yourself that upsets you, not anothers ignorant viewpoint.

Any thoughts?

Yeah, a whole bunch of thoughts, now that you ask. Speaking strictly for myself, I don't find it at all upsetting when someone challenges my beliefs. If it's a fellow-Christian who's challenging them, I feel confident that I can find Biblical evidence to support them in about 99% of the cases. Biblical "evidence," of course, doesn't "prove" anything, since the scriptures can be interpreted in so many different ways. But when someone puts down my beliefs as being "un-Biblical," it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I know they're as "Biblical" as the next guy's. I'll even use your question as an opportunity to invite any non-LDS Christian to debate me one-on-one on any topic of general interest and conern to the entire Christian community. Any takers?

Again, this is only my opinion, but I believe it's probably shared by other members of my faith: The "anger and confusion" arises not not from doubt but from the frustration that comes when people misrepresent my beliefs. When somebody says, "Mormons believe [such and such]" and it's not true, that's frustrating. When we reply with, "No, that's not what we believe. We believe [such and such]," it would be nice to get an answer like, "Okay, thanks." Most of the time, though, that's not what happens and we get told over and over again what we supposedly believe and teach.

It's frustrating to me to debate an atheist, because faith is something you can't explain in terms that's going to satisfy someone who doesn't believe. Most of the time, I shy away from debating atheists because it just seems to be counter-productive. I can respect an atheist's lack of belief, but I'm the kind of person who likes to find resolution in a difference of opinion, and a believer just can't hope to do that in debating with a non-believer.

 

[Halcyon]

It isn't doubt in my mind that upsets me. It is the ignorance and intolerance of some people that upsets me. If it were the doubt that upsets me it would only be strong arguments that get me upset. That isn't true. I usually get a lot more upset over the stupid claims that insult my intelligence.

I understand jonny, but getting annoyed because someone is deliberately being annoying is different to getting upset when someone legitimately argues against a belief, don't you think?

I think the best counter to someone who's being purposefully antagonistic is either to ignore them entirely or point out the errors in their argument and leave it at that. What do you think though?

 

[jonny]

I understand jonny, but getting annoyed because someone is deliberately being annoying is different to getting upset when someone legitimately argues against a belief, don't you think?

I think the best counter to someone who's being purposefully antagonistic is either to ignore them entirely or point out the errors in their argument and leave it at that. What do you think though?

I agree that it is two different situations. An observer of a debate might not know whether or not an argument is legitimate or not though. I have a hard time ignoring them because it lets the statements stand unchallenged, but with people like this pointing out the errors in their arguments it is also a waste of time because they are usually only interested in challenging, not listening. That destroys any motivation I would have to take the time to respond to a lengthy argument.

Most of the antagonizers of my faith usually do end up being ignored. I just let other people deal with them.

 

[dawny0826]

I'm very secure in my beliefs but do tend to get hyped up when in the heat of a debate.

I don't think this discounts my security in what I believe...I think it just shows that I'm human...and I'm passionate about what I believe in...

 

[Pah]

In my mind, my beliefs are solidly placed. It sometimes, not often, becomes not the beliefs that others chalange but me personally. The challange is to my core, my identity. It's simular to calling me "ugly" when my beliefs are put down.

It is something I know but, I find, difficult for me to put into practise toward others.

 

[Halcyon]

In my mind, my beliefs are solidly placed. It sometimes, not often, becomes not the beliefs that others chalange but me personally. The challange is to my core, my identity. It's simular to calling me "ugly" when my beliefs are put down.

It is something I know but, I find, difficult for me to put into practise toward others.

Why do you think you take it so personally Pah?

 

[jeffrey]

I'm secure in my convictions, until someone can state a good enough arguement to make me rethink my position. If it comes from someone who's opinion I do not value, then why bother getting upset over it? If someone is attacking my opinion whom I do value, I'll try and figure out if it's because they really disagree, or if it's for another reason.

 

[Pah]

Why do you think you take it so personally Pah?

I have to admit, it is not often that it effects me that way but, from what I've experienced, I can see others are quite upset when they are denied recognition of who they are.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I don't know... I'm not sure if I've ever been 100% secure in my beliefs!

 

[Green Gaia]

Is your theory confined to only religious beliefs, Halcyon?

For me, if someone challenges me religious beliefs, I am, for the most part, able to let it roll off my back as I believe everyone is entitled to their own belief.

But, let someone attack me on a personal front, say because of my sexuality, and you will see the claws come out.

 

[Katzpur]

What I don't understand is why feeling secure in your beliefs is it seen as such a negative thing. Sometimes I feel like I've got to apologize for my convictions. I just don't get it, I guess.

 

[Bangbang]

I think most Christians get very upset when the "son of man" is no more than a worm. However God loves allhis creations.........right!

Job 25:6 "...how much less man, who is but a maggot-- a son of man, who is only a worm!"

 

[Ody]

As a rational thinker i am always ready to change my views, but my current convictions make enough sense to me...... i don't really see why i would change them...

 

[Katzpur]

As a rational thinker i am always ready to change my views, but my current convictions make enough sense to me...... i don't really see why i would change them...

That makes all the sense in the world to me. Thanks for stating it. You expressed my own feelings perfectly.