Self-Baptism

[EverChanging]

Have any Gnostics here baptized yourselves? How did you do it?

If you are a gnostic what does baptism mean to you and what does it accomplish? Is it something that you do more than once? Do you require someone else to baptize you or can you baptize yourself?

 

[Jumi]

Stepping in the river, ascending to the Kingdom of Heaven, being in the presence of the Kingdom of God, all symbolism of the inner process. I don't see a need to have something physical for symbolism already understood and for things known in the gnostic sense.

 

[EverChanging]

Stepping in the river, ascending to the Kingdom of Heaven, being in the presence of the Kingdom of God, all symbolism of the inner process. I don't see a need to have something physical for symbolism already understood and for things known in the gnostic sense.

You may not, but some classical and modern Gnostics have sacraments. My question was aimed at them.

 

[Phantasman]

Baptism is a spiritual event of self. Realizing and accepting the path of the (Holy) Spirit. No water is needed as it was with John the Baptist.

The thief on the cross became spiritually understanding of the truth (Jesus Christ) and didn't need the water. There is no events of Christ "dipping people in water".

Gnosis is the knowledge of the Spirit (capital S) and a rejection of the (physical) flesh. Since water is a physical, the spirit has no need of it.

John 6:
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

If the flesh profits nothing, why would one believe dipping it in water would profit? Same with laying hands to pass on the Holy Ghost.

Both are a early (orthodox) catholic belief to give the priests power after Jesus robbed them of it.

 

[Caesar Saladin]

Having someone else baptize you means nothing unless it's required for admittance into the club.

Can a Christian be a Christian without having been baptized by someone else? On a personal level, sure. (What if there IS no one else to do it?) Where you run into trouble is with other Christians who might take umbrage at your not having 'paid your dues'. I would image the same applies to all 'pay your dues' style religions.

 

[allfoak]

Have any Gnostics here baptized yourselves? How did you do it?

If you are a gnostic what does baptism mean to you and what does it accomplish? Is it something that you do more than once? Do you require someone else to baptize you or can you baptize yourself?

One can do a cleanse by themselves but their should always be a witness.
Baptism is something different. If one finds it necessary to be baptised it should be done by another who is knowledgeable of the purpose and has already given up their life.
In both cases one should be fully immersed in living water.

 

[Phantasman]

Having someone else baptize you means nothing unless it's required for admittance into the club.

Can a Christian be a Christian without having been baptized by someone else? On a personal level, sure. (What if there IS no one else to do it?) Where you run into trouble is with other Christians who might take umbrage at your not having 'paid your dues'. I would image the same applies to all 'pay your dues' style religions.

Christ would never give us a gift that depended on flesh (man, water). As the theif on the cross, baptism is a realization. You commit your life to learn (water) and become consumed with the knowledge (fire).

John 6:
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Why would one have to be touched by anothers flesh?

The catholics incorporated it to control the flesh. Like "holy" water. Eucharist. Etc.

 

[EverChanging]

Christ would never give us a gift that depended on flesh (man, water). As the theif on the cross, baptism is a realization. You commit your life to learn (water) and become consumed with the knowledge (fire).

John 6:
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Why would one have to be touched by anothers flesh?

The catholics incorporated it to control the flesh. Like "holy" water. Eucharist. Etc.

As I stated before my question is aimed at those Gnostics who do practice sacraments.

 

[Phantasman]

As I stated before my question is aimed at those Gnostics who do practice sacraments.

That's fine. Sacraments are an orthodox practice. Gnostics were not orthodox. They were all but destroyed and their books burned by the orthodox (catholic ideology). Which make the Nag Hammadi finds so important.

The word "gnostic" is as globally redefined as the word "Christian". In the end, words mean nothing. Knowledge everything.

Gnostic:
Names given to the worldly are very deceptive, for they divert our thoughts from what is correct to what is incorrect. Thus one who hears the word "God" does not perceive what is correct, but perceives what is incorrect. So also with "the Father" and "the Son" and "the Holy Spirit" and "life" and "light" and "resurrection" and "the Church (Ekklesia)" and all the rest - people do not perceive what is correct but they perceive what is incorrect, unless they have come to know what is correct. The names which are heard are in the world [...] deceive. If they were in the Aeon (eternal realm), they would at no time be used as names in the world. Nor were they set among worldly things. They have an end in the Aeon.- Gospel of Philip

But truth brought names into existence in the world for our sakes, because it is not possible to learn it (truth) without these names. Truth is one single thing; it is many things and for our sakes to teach about this one thing in love through many things. The rulers (archons) wanted to deceive man, since they saw that he had a kinship with those that are truly good. They took the name of those that are good and gave it to those that are not good, so that through the names they might deceive him and bind them to those that are not good. And afterward, what a favor they do for them! They make them be removed from those that are not good and place them among those that are good. These things they knew, for they wanted to take the free man and make him a slave to them forever.- Gospel of Philip

And the Eucharist:
Gnostic:
Some are afraid lest they rise naked. Because of this they wish to rise in the flesh, and they do not know that it is those who wear the flesh who are naked. It is those who [...] to unclothe themselves who are not naked. "Flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Co 15:50). What is this which will not inherit? This which is on us. But what is this, too, which will inherit? It is that which belongs to Jesus and his blood. Because of this he said "He who shall not eat my flesh and drink my blood has not life in him" (Jn 6:53). What is it? His flesh is the word, and his blood is the Holy Spirit. He who has received these has food and he has drink and clothing. I find fault with the others who say that it will not rise. Then both of them are at fault. You say that the flesh will not rise. But tell me what will rise, that we may honor you. You say the Spirit in the flesh, and it is also this light in the flesh. (But) this too is a matter which is in the flesh, for whatever you shall say, you say nothing outside the flesh. It is necessary to rise in this flesh, since everything exists in it. In this world, those who put on garments are better than the garments. In the Kingdom of Heaven, the garments are better than those that put them on.

Gnostics sought knowledge of the Spirit, not physical/flesh. IOW, wafers and wine do nothing (spiritually). But people feel good doing as the priests teach.

It's all in where you get your knowledge and what is revealed to you.