I would say that I expected better of that particular group, but I'd be lying.
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Senator Kennedy has Died
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
Smoke
Done here.
Well, I feel pretty strongly that you're entitled to your opinion. It really irked me when Jerry Falwell died and people thought I should suddenly start respecting his memory. I didn't respect him when he was alive; why the hell should I respect him when he's dead? As far as Falwell's death was concerned, my only regret was that it didn't happen thirty years earlier.
So I'm with you 100% on not faking pious sentiments about the dead.
I do disagree with you about Ted, though, and I think the comparison to Mao is way over the top.
Ted Kennedy may not have been in every respect a good man (but considering his uprbringing he was a better man than he might have been) and he was a great senator who did a lot of good for women, LGBT folks, the disabled, the poor, and for his country generally. He was a real liberal, and real liberals are rare in American politics. I'll miss him.
Smoke
Done here.
I have every confidence that Kathryn is comfortable speaking for herself.
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
Wookiemonster
The*****isBack
I agree, and apologize if I spoke out of turn. I however feel and react strongly when I see others being condemned for stating that they feel no sorrow over the death of someone who they disliked.
Death does not instantly erase the wrong a person has done, nor should those who choose to remember be chastised for it.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
I just heard the Conservative Republican Orrin Hatch talk about how much respect he had for Kennedy how he has changed since 1980s. Kennedy had many friends among very conservative republicans they say that he always kept his word to them. Jimmy Carter ( who had more of a reason to be his enemy then anyone ) also talk about how he bore his self caused problems of the past. The kennedys have given much to our country.
yossarian22
Resident Schizophrenic
When we are visited by aliens, I hope that they don't read Free Republic. They would probably decide to nuke us from orbit.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Yeah, I don't think I'll ever to able to hear his name without remembering that. I'm sure he did a lot of good over his lifetime, but we're talking about someone being personally responsible for the death of another human being. And yes, the accident was "an acident," but his response to it was represensible. And you know darned well that it's only because he was a Kennedy that he got away with it. Who else could possibly have walked away from such an event with his reputation left so unscathed? At any rate, he has family and a lot of friends who are grieving and my sympathies go out to them. I'm just not a huge fan of any of the Kennedys.
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Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
In January of 1984 President Ronald Reagan ok the CIA to mine Sandino harbor in Nicaragua. Some french sailors were hurt and one was killed because of the actions of our president. We were not at war with Nicaragua. This was seen as an act of terrorism by the whole world.
This act was clear violation of international law. The Sandanistas took their case to the International Court of Justice in the Hague (also known as the World Court) and won, though the US administration refused to recognize the court’s jurisdiction. The mining of the harbors was an example of “force against another state,” the court said; US support of the contras “amounts to an intervention of one state in he internal affairs of the other.”
President Reagan only got away with this because he was the President of the USA. He was personally responsible ( not an accident like what Ted did ) for the death of another human being. this was a worse act then Ted Kennadys. It both killed and hurt many innocent lives. Will you now say you are not a huge fan of Ronald Reagan.
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Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Since when do two wrongs make a right? What I think of Ronald Reagan has nothing whatsoever to do with what I think of Ted Kennedy. Now that I've made the one and only statement I'm going to make on his death, I'll leave it to someone else to further derail this thread.
T-Dawg
Self-appointed Lunatic
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/north-american-politics/84600-why-heck-does-everyone-like-reagan.html? You're preaching to the choir here
.EDIT: Gah, posting on this laptop is so buggy...
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Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
It has a lot to do with it. I have found that many folks are more then willing to judge someone they disagree with and over look the faults of people they like. But I am sorry for the upset.
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Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Oh come on, people - here is what I REALLY said (quit the spin):
I guess on a stretch you could also say that I was comparing TK to Tammy Faye Bakker too. But that is NOT what I was doing.
What I SAID was that his death invoked about the same emotion as the deaths of both Mao Tse Tung and Tammy Faye Bakker in me - a bit of bemusement, a sense of "Well, it comes to us all," and "Oh brother, this will bring out the crazies at the wake."
Why fake admiration? I didn't admire Ted Kennedy, and he championed a lot of causes that I find morally offensive (along with some I wouldn't have a problem with as well, but in my opinion the bad outweighs the good). I believe he was a particularly corrupt politician and frankly, one less of them makes the world a better place.
Now his "last wish" (did he even write it in his condition?) is that the bill HE pushed through to deny Mitt Romney a seat five years ago, is to have that very bill reversed - to fill his vacant seat with a Democrat. And in the state of Massachusetts, this last wish will probably be granted.
One last grab of power from the grave.
Yes, I find that sort of action and mindset repulsive and I don't apologize for it.
And Smoke - you hit the nail on the head with your example of Jerry Falwell.
Anyone who doesn't admit that they think, "So what - good riddance" when a particularly repugnant public figure dies is being less than honest in my opinion.
I guess on a stretch you could also say that I was comparing TK to Tammy Faye Bakker too. But that is NOT what I was doing.
What I SAID was that his death invoked about the same emotion as the deaths of both Mao Tse Tung and Tammy Faye Bakker in me - a bit of bemusement, a sense of "Well, it comes to us all," and "Oh brother, this will bring out the crazies at the wake."
Why fake admiration? I didn't admire Ted Kennedy, and he championed a lot of causes that I find morally offensive (along with some I wouldn't have a problem with as well, but in my opinion the bad outweighs the good). I believe he was a particularly corrupt politician and frankly, one less of them makes the world a better place.
Now his "last wish" (did he even write it in his condition?) is that the bill HE pushed through to deny Mitt Romney a seat five years ago, is to have that very bill reversed - to fill his vacant seat with a Democrat. And in the state of Massachusetts, this last wish will probably be granted.
One last grab of power from the grave.
Yes, I find that sort of action and mindset repulsive and I don't apologize for it.
And Smoke - you hit the nail on the head with your example of Jerry Falwell.
Anyone who doesn't admit that they think, "So what - good riddance" when a particularly repugnant public figure dies is being less than honest in my opinion.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
I am a firm believer that it is possible to stand up for your beliefs and not lack compassion for your opponents. History is full of these people. It was a very important part of the teachings of Christ. All of us can love our children how many of us can treat or enemies with respect. History is full of Christians in the past who were able to do this. Did not Christ set the example for you by blessing the people who were crucifying him. “Father forgive them for they know not what they do” was his teaching to his followers.
In our modern age it is people like Gandhi and the Dali Lama who have shown that this disregard for our fellow man is possible to out grow. Don't misunderstand me. I am not one of these great ones. When I find myself engaging in this type of disregard for our fellow man. “Thats what it is whether we like it or not” I see it as a personal weakness not as something I should except in my self.
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Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I am not glad that Ted Kennedy died a slow, painful death. I am not rejoicing in the fact that he was in pain or that his family is grieving.
I'm not even rejoicing that he's dead, though maybe HE is - who knows? He was old, he was sick, and currently no one has yet figured out how to keep someone from actually dying - the current death rate is at 100%. He died, you're gonna die, I'm gonna die...you get the picture.
On a personal level, I feel compassion for any pain he might have suffered. But am I sorry he's dead? No, not particularly. I believe he was a corrupt politician, for starters. To further my point, like I said, he was old and sick. Death is the natural outcome of old age and sickness.
So - no, I'm not going to give him accolades or feel a bit of sadness at his passing. That doesn't mean I want him to go to hell - or can even say where I think his eternal soul should rest - that sort of judgment is above my pay grade.
But what's NOT above my pay grade is to despise the actions of the man on many levels, to feel personal repulsion at many of his professional and personal deeds, and to feel no sadness at his death.
Seems natural - and honest - to me. It's also merely my personal opinion and I'm glad to see so many people on this thread expressiing their own opinions so eloquently.
Gotta love those constitutional rights!
I'm not even rejoicing that he's dead, though maybe HE is - who knows? He was old, he was sick, and currently no one has yet figured out how to keep someone from actually dying - the current death rate is at 100%. He died, you're gonna die, I'm gonna die...you get the picture.
On a personal level, I feel compassion for any pain he might have suffered. But am I sorry he's dead? No, not particularly. I believe he was a corrupt politician, for starters. To further my point, like I said, he was old and sick. Death is the natural outcome of old age and sickness.
So - no, I'm not going to give him accolades or feel a bit of sadness at his passing. That doesn't mean I want him to go to hell - or can even say where I think his eternal soul should rest - that sort of judgment is above my pay grade.
But what's NOT above my pay grade is to despise the actions of the man on many levels, to feel personal repulsion at many of his professional and personal deeds, and to feel no sadness at his death.
Seems natural - and honest - to me. It's also merely my personal opinion and I'm glad to see so many people on this thread expressiing their own opinions so eloquently.
Gotta love those constitutional rights!
linwood
Well-Known Member
I didn`t have a problem with your statement because I simply thought it was biased and unfounded but now your implying that perhaps God himself is happy Kennedy is dead.
That`s kinda sick.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
I think she was saying that perhaps Senator Kennedy is happy that he is dead.
linwood
Well-Known Member
Ahh..perhaps the capital "HE" through me off.
(I read waaayy too many religious texts)
If so I apologize and can even agree.
It doesn`t seem a good way to die.
McBell
Unbound
That is the way I took it.....