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Shakespeare too sexual for Florida’s schools?

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
It's the Neo-Puritans aka the American Taliban enforcing "decency". By this logic the Bible should be banned from school libraries because it contains the Song of Solomon.
Yep!

"My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him." (5:4)

Don't think too long about what it means -- it means what it says! :cool:
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Marriageable age for both at that time.

I am still waiting for the filth. Not from you of course. From the one that made the claim.
Whilst true, R and J always made me feel uneasy. Which I guess you could argue was the point? Teenage stupidity on full display for all to see.

But my unease might be more due to my modern sensibilities regarding marriage. In Australia the legal minimum is 18, with some exceptions made if one party is 16 (there needs to be a very small age gap between the pair though) and if granted by a judge or with parental consent
A 14 year old in such a situation creeps me out by default. I know it still happens, but my immediate reaction is still ewww lol
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It may be an urban legend but I have heard that some schools have been forced to remove the Bible from library shelves, based on the amount of genocide, incest, slavery and murder that it condones

It actually happened:


But not for long:


The original attempt was done to show how their recently installed rules on banning books could backfire.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Whilst true, R and J always made me feel uneasy. Which I guess you could argue was the point? Teenage stupidity on full display for all to see.

But my unease might be more due to my modern sensibilities regarding marriage. In Australia the legal minimum is 18, with some exceptions made if one party is 16 (there needs to be a very small age gap between the pair though) and if granted by a judge or with parental consent
A 14 year old in such a situation creeps me out by default. I know it still happens, but my immediate reaction is still ewww lol
I will agree that kids at that age are too young to marry. But they still do have sex (so please provide birth control!!). But in those days life was rather short and early marriages were the norm.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I hate teaching R+J because it is irredeemably filthy (and not very good story telling). If, though (and as I said) we pick a play with less troublesome content, then we can teach the Bard and avoid the problems.
It is not irredeemably filthy. Raunchy, yes, but it's not explicit or anything close to resembling an erotic script. It's a silly story that gets to what peole want to see. It's a juicy, bawdy story filled with characters who make mountains out of mole hills. It would spoil the fun if they had just a shred more of ability to reason and ruin the story if they lived.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I will agree that kids at that age are too young to marry. But they still do have sex (so please provide birth control!!). But in those days life was rather short and early marriages were the norm.
Agreed. And to make myself clear, I recognise that “times were different back then” so I find it kind of silly to hold R and J up to modern standards of marriage
I mean I understand reading his plays with a modern lens as a way of analysing it. But outside of that, I don’t really see the point lol
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Oh what the heck:

In Plain Facts, Kellogg suggested anesthesia-free circumcisions for masturbating adolescent boys because “the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment.” And if circumcision wasn’t an option? He recommended parents have their son’s foreskins sewn onto the shaft of their penis with a metal wire so that every erection is met with blinding pain and shame. For girls, he advised parents to apply carbolic acid to their daughter’s clitoris, writing that this method provides an “excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement.”

 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I hate teaching R+J because it is irredeemably filthy (and not very good story telling). If, though (and as I said) we pick a play with less troublesome content, then we can teach the Bard and avoid the problems.
"Irredeemably filthy?" Wow, you must be overly priggish. Better stay far, far away from Sonnet 135 -- you might perish from the sexual innuendo in that one.

"Not very good story telling?" It's one of the best told stories in literature. And consider this -- what makes a "good story?" Something that listeners want to hear, that's what! And because the audience is what it's all about, ask yourself why R&J is the second most produced of all 39 plays.
 

Viker

Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Oh what the heck:

In Plain Facts, Kellogg suggested anesthesia-free circumcisions for masturbating adolescent boys because “the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment.” And if circumcision wasn’t an option? He recommended parents have their son’s foreskins sewn onto the shaft of their penis with a metal wire so that every erection is met with blinding pain and shame. For girls, he advised parents to apply carbolic acid to their daughter’s clitoris, writing that this method provides an “excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement.”

Yep. Kellogg was a monster.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Oh what the heck:

In Plain Facts, Kellogg suggested anesthesia-free circumcisions for masturbating adolescent boys because “the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment.” And if circumcision wasn’t an option? He recommended parents have their son’s foreskins sewn onto the shaft of their penis with a metal wire so that every erection is met with blinding pain and shame. For girls, he advised parents to apply carbolic acid to their daughter’s clitoris, writing that this method provides an “excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement.”

Surely that man had a very sick mind, indeed.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Oh what the heck:

In Plain Facts, Kellogg suggested anesthesia-free circumcisions for masturbating adolescent boys because “the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment.” And if circumcision wasn’t an option? He recommended parents have their son’s foreskins sewn onto the shaft of their penis with a metal wire so that every erection is met with blinding pain and shame. For girls, he advised parents to apply carbolic acid to their daughter’s clitoris, writing that this method provides an “excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement.”

Okay I’ve read classic horror less frightening. Just wtf!!
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Surely that man had a very sick mind, indeed.
No doubt. He even seemed to think that married sex was immoral in some way. He was very proud of the fact that he never had sex with his wife. From the same article:

However, while Kellogg became the preeminent leader in nutrition and health reform during the late 19th century, his proudest and most cherished accomplishment was never having sex with his wife. Though he received daily enemas from a handsome male nurse, he was so adamant that sex of any kind was a vex to physical, emotional and spiritual health that he slept in a separate room from his wife and fostered 42 children to avoid having to consummate his marriage.


A lot of the claims in that article are not hearsay. They are taken from a book that Kellogg wrote called "Plain Facts for the Old and Young"

That link goes to the book itself.
 
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