Shakespeare too sexual for Florida’s schools?

[Stevicus]

Okay sorry for weird title, but this story has confused the hell out of me since I heard about it.

Apparently schools, in order to comply with the “don’t say gay bill” (?) DeSantis has enacted for schools, many schools are now heavily editing what parts of Shakespeare is being taught. Only allowing certain sections of his plays to be read for class, due to how bawdy they often are (which they absolutely are.) Which seems beyond dumb to me, but maybe that’s because my uncle (an English teacher) heavily drove it into my head to laud Shakes lol

I’m not American so I can’t make heads nor tails of this one guys. It just seems so….bizarre to me.
Help me out here, guys.

The Observer view on Ron DeSantis, Shakespeare and sex: ‘Man, proud man… Most ignorant of what he’s most assur’d’ | Observer editorial

Application of the Florida governor’s ‘don’t say gay’ law has led to the banning of plays such as Romeo and Juliet in some schools

www.theguardian.com

If they said that Shakespeare was pornographic when I was in school, kids would have flocked to it. Instead, most of us would just say "Booooring" whenever Shakespeare came up.

 

[rosends]

I still don't understand how the words will cause harm. We are talking about high students. If they are capable of reading Shakespeare I think they can handle it.

I think the danger of not reading great literature is infinitely greater than the danger of reading it.

Whether there is danger in not reading it is unclear. One has to step back and decide why any student should read Will S. in the first place. Is it because of cultural literacy, because of the number of plays of his we have so one can watch a writer evolve, or because we think that there is something in what he did which no other writer did or does (none of those is inherently persuasive).

As to the question of harm, that begs questions of the slippery slope. If we see the poetry in the foul mouthed play so we want to expose students to it, then what about the potential for art in Penthouse Letters? I'm not saying they are equivalent but someone will say that they are. If we believe that movies are rated based on the idea that we shouldn't expose particular things to children under certain ages, then schools might feel that there is precedent to stop teaching Henry Miller and Anais Nin. As Bill, himself, wrote, "best safety lies in fear."

 

[rosends]

Why ... because we don't want our youth marred by exposure to the sexual deviancy on display in Romeo and Juliet? Far better that we bow to a noxious homophobe.

I hate teaching R+J because it is irredeemably filthy (and not very good story telling). If, though (and as I said) we pick a play with less troublesome content, then we can teach the Bard and avoid the problems.

 

[Orbit]

I hate teaching R+J because it is irredeemably filthy (and not very good story telling). If, though (and as I said) we pick a play with less troublesome content, then we can teach the Bard and avoid the problems.

I read Romeo & Juliet in 11th grade English and don't remember a thing about it that could be called "filthy".

 

[Viker]

If they said that Shakespeare was pornographic when I was in school, kids would have flocked to it. Instead, most of us would just say "Booooring" whenever Shakespeare came up.

I considered Shakespearean theater the original LARPing. If I couldn't stab people I wanted nothing to do with it.

 

[Viker]

I read Romeo & Juliet in 11th grade English and don't remember a thing about it that could be called "filthy".

It involves a naughty relationship between two teenaged heterosexuals. Naughty. And there's self-ending involved. So, it's naughty and dangerous. A true threat to indoctrinated potential right wing youth.

Also, liberals seem to be fond of Shakespeare so it must be the woke.

 

[SomeRandom]

If they said that Shakespeare was pornographic when I was in school, kids would have flocked to it. Instead, most of us would just say "Booooring" whenever Shakespeare came up.

Plot twist, this is the school’s way of increasing teens reading Shakespeare and DeSantis was just an easy cover story lol

 

[SomeRandom]

I read Romeo & Juliet in 11th grade English and don't remember a thing about it that could be called "filthy".

I mean, to be fair, iirc Romeo is not only older but he is more sexually experienced. Given that he’s lamenting a breakup at the start. So there is an uneasy power dynamic you could read into their relationship. Not saying that’s what Shakes intended of course, it was probably a bit more “normal” to him. But just a modern interpretation
Juliette meanwhile, I swear her age seemed to differ slightly depending on who was teaching us.
The youngest age being cited was I think like 11/12 and in other classes she was 15/16.
Since you teach it, I have to ask, is that like a thing?

Either way, by today’s standards I can see the plot being quite scandalous and raising a few eyebrows. If you kind of look at it.

 

[Viker]

Plot twist, this is the school’s way of increasing teens reading Shakespeare and DeSantis was just an easy cover story lol

The Satanic Panic/Reactionarism helped heavy metal and D&D sales in the 80s. I bought the Satanic Bible, for crying out loud. The panic against Satanism (probably) made me a Satanist.

 

[SomeRandom]

The Satanic Panic/Reactionarism helped heavy metal and D&D sales in the 80s. I bought the Satanic Bible, for crying out loud. The panic against Satanism (probably) made me a Satanist.

I’ve seen these censorship acts fail (or succeed depending on your desired outcome, I suppose) time and time again, even within my lifetime.
Harry Potter, the GTA franchise, even the Simpsons among other titles.
All were apparently evil and going to corrupt my young mind. So naturally I flocked right to them immediately

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I’ve seen these censorship acts fail (or succeed depending on your desired outcome, I suppose) time and time again, even within my lifetime.
Harry Potter, the GTA franchise, even the Simpsons
All were apparently evil and going to corrupt my young mind. So naturally I flocked right to them immediately

Harry Potter was certainly a big controversy back in the day. Now more conservatives support Rowling, and for different reasons.

 

[Orbit]

I mean, to be fair, iirc Romeo is not only older but he is more sexually experienced. Given that he’s lamenting a breakup at the start. So there is an uneasy power dynamic you could read into their relationship. Not saying that’s what Shakes intended of course, it was probably a bit more “normal” to him. But just a modern interpretation
Juliette meanwhile, I swear her age seemed to differ slightly depending on who was teaching us.
The youngest age being cited was I think like 11/12 and in other classes she was 15/16.
Since you teach it, I have to ask, is that like a thing?

Either way, by today’s standards I can see the plot being quite scandalous and raising a few eyebrows. If you kind of look at it.

I always understood Juliet to be 14 and Romeo to be 17, but the play was put into historical context for us (that's the way they did things back then) so that didn't raise an eyebrow for me. I don't teach English, that was another poster. I teach Sociology.

 

[SomeRandom]

I always understood Juliet to be 14 and Romeo to be 17, but the play was put into historical context for us (that's the way they did things back then) so that didn't raise an eyebrow for me. I don't teach English, that was another poster. I teach Sociology.

Ahh I see. I learnt R and J multiple times in high school. A couple of times was in English (obviously lol) but weirdly it came up in my Social studies class and again in my modern history class. I mean in hindsight it made sense given the context it was always taught to me (which changed depending on the subject.)
I just assumed that there may have been slight dispute over her age in academia, that’s all

 

[Esteban X]

It's the Neo-Puritans aka the American Taliban enforcing "decency". By this logic the Bible should be banned from school libraries because it contains the Song of Solomon.

It may be an urban legend but I have heard that some schools have been forced to remove the Bible from library shelves, based on the amount of genocide, incest, slavery and murder that it condones

 

[Viker]

I’ve seen these censorship acts fail (or succeed depending on your desired outcome, I suppose) time and time again, even within my lifetime.
Harry Potter, the GTA franchise, even the Simpsons among other titles.
All were apparently evil and going to corrupt my young mind. So naturally I flocked right to them immediately

When ever the people I didn't like didn't like something I tended to take notice of that something. I'm still kind of like that.

 

[SomeRandom]

When ever the people I didn't like didn't like something I tended to take notice of that something. I'm still kind of like that.

Honestly, same lol

 

[SomeRandom]

Harry Potter was certainly a big controversy back in the day. Now more conservatives support Rowling, and for different reasons.

Yeah that was….interesting to watch, let’s just put it that way lol

 

[fantome profane]

As to the question of harm, that begs questions of the slippery slope. If we see the poetry in the foul mouthed play so we want to expose students to it, then what about the potential for art in Penthouse Letters?

This is a very common response, but frankly I think it is complete nonsense. I have never heard of any teenager who was harmed by reading penthouse letters, or looking at playboy. I think they should have penthouse letters available in every high school library, it would certainly get teenage boys reading, and that is a good thing.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I always understood Juliet to be 14 and Romeo to be 17, but the play was put into historical context for us (that's the way they did things back then) so that didn't raise an eyebrow for me. I don't teach English, that was another poster. I teach Sociology.

Marriageable age for both at that time.

I am still waiting for the filth. Not from you of course. From the one that made the claim.

 

[Viker]

It may be an urban legend but I have heard that some schools have been forced to remove the Bible from library shelves, based on the amount of genocide, incest, slavery and murder that it condones

If those things are legally objectionable, then if it's within the law, so be it. Ban the Bible from schools too or demonstrate hypocrisy.