Shared Places of Worship

[Trey of Diamonds]

I have a moral question for everyone here. Our little church is in need of money so we have been looking for renters we can sublet a portion of our church to. We have a local Baha'i group that would like to do so but the congregation is split on allowing them because of their views on homosexuality. We are currently half way through the welcoming congregation workshops and many think it would be hypocritical to allow them to practice their religion in our space. Everyone is ok with them renting the space for any other function or even coming to speak to the congregation from the pulpit but when it comes to actually practicing their religion and performing what ever ceremonies they have, we are split.

Can anyone offer any advice on the subject?

Thanks,

Trey

 

[Djamila]

In some regions of Albania, there are actually Muslims, Orthodox Christians, and Roman Catholics sharing a single house of worship and cemetery.

I think it depends on the worshippers themselves what they are willing to accept in that regard.

 

[lilithu]

I have a moral question for everyone here. Our little church is in need of money so we have been looking for renters we can sublet a portion of our church to. We have a local Baha'i group that would like to do so but the congregation is split on allowing them because of their views on homosexuality. We are currently half way through the welcoming congregation workshops and many think it would be hypocritical to allow them to practice their religion in our space. Everyone is ok with them renting the space for any other function or even coming to speak to the congregation from the pulpit but when it comes to actually practicing their religion and performing what ever ceremonies they have, we are split.

Can anyone offer any advice on the subject?

Thanks,

Trey

The Baha'i are against homosexuality??! I did not know that. I suppose I should not have ranked them as high on the tolerance scale (another thread) as I did then.

It's a tough question. On the one hand, you want to be true to your own values and you certainly don't want to compromise your values just for money. Otoh, tolerance is about being able to deal with groups that believe differently than we do. It would be extremely hard to find other groups with with there isn't something big upon which we disagree. In many respects, like religious tolerance and equality of genders, we have much in common with the Baha'i. And I am a big proponent of not letting the things with which we disagree get in the way of building relationships based on the things with which we agree. The UUA collaborates with a number of other religious groups in order to strengthen our ability to promote change. We'll work with Christian groups to raise the minimum wage, even tho we know we would disagree with them on abortion and marriage equality. But that said, that's not the same as letting them come into our sacred space and call it home...

For the people who are against letting them worship in your church, why do they think it's ok for them to rent space for other reasons? Wouldn't that still be indirectly supporting them? What is special about letting them worship in your space?

What exactly is the Baha'i view on homosexuality? What are the views of this particular group of Baha'i? Do they actively preach about it or is it believed but not mentioned? And would the group be actively doing anything about its beliefs out in the community, like advocating against marriage equality for example?

 

[KSojourner]

Trey -

Have you asked those in your congregation who are GLBT how they would feel about that? I think it would be good to get their input if you already have not.

I would have a hard time making this decision, as I don't agree with that particular belief. But at the same time, I look back at people like Roger Williams, who although he didn't agree with the beliefs of various groups such as the Quakers, he welcomed them into their town when no one else would. He believed in religious tolerance and I see the UU church as continuing that tradition.Some of the things that I read regarding how Williams viewed religious tolerance talked about how religious tolerance isn't about accepting other peoples' beliefs. It is more about recognizing the fact that they have the right to believe as they do without being told they are wrong, even if you don't believe what they do.

As your congregation is currently going through the Welcoming workshops, has anybody brough this up during the workshops? Maybe there are other congregations that have had to make decisions like this and you can go to them to see what they did.

Another thing you may want to try is to sit down with this particular group and come to an understanding about how the issue is to be addressed and find a resolution that you would both be comfortable with.

With all this being said, I hope that your congregation will be able to come up with a decision that people will be comfortable with. Good luck.

 

[des]

Trey -
>Have you asked those in your congregation who are GLBT how they would feel about that? I think it would be good to get their input if you already have not.

I was just going to suggest this. Our UCC church in Chicago shared space with a MCC (Metro Community Church). A lot of times they are looking for space being rather controversial. The other thing was at the time this relationship started they had HIV/AIDs congregants, so it was like invited lepers over to your place. I don't think it would be quite this bad now, but anti-gay sentiment is even a bit higher.

BTW, this reminds me of a rather humerous incident. There is a pagan UU church in Chicago, that at least at the time shared space with a Presbyterian church. So here is this totally Presby looking church having these calls to form a circle and let in the ..... There were enough candles to burn the place down, ashes, flower petals, etc etc. So all I can say is they must have done a totally good clean up job to get invited back, and that they had no clue about the group.I don't think I would be too freaked out today, as I am much more experimental but at the time they were pretty radical even by my own standards.


--des

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Thanks everyone, there's some great advice being shared. Some of our congregation has mentioned that having two philosophies in the same space will create conflicting energies that could disrupt the flow and balance of our sanctuary. Since I have a lot of Taoist tendencies I can see the potential in this. But I don't necessarily think that having the two energy sources in the same location will produce a negative flow. Since every member of our congregation and the Baha'i group in question is a variable in the equation, it is pretty hard to predict the outcome.

Another group within the congregation is worried about how it will look to be holding welcoming congregation workshops and still allowing anti-homosexuals in our location. I don't agree with this train of thought as I'm not worried about what people think about me. They can jump to conclusions if they want but I feel most UUs will see the logic and reason right away.

So, my only concern is the flow and balance of energy. Technically, I believe that all religions are merely multiple views of the same thing. Most religions are divided into good and evil. As long as the Baha'i group wishing to lease our space has embraced the good in their religion and we have embraced the good in ours, positive energy will result.

I will fully support what ever the congregation decides by democratic process.

Thanks again for all the advice,

Trey

 

[Stairs In My House]

WWLMotPD? (What Would Little Mosque on the Prairie Do?)

I just recently saw this show after jamaesi told me about it and I can't help being reminded of the first episode. Shared religious space is a tough thing but according to Little Mosque honesty is the best policy. Especially when it comes to the lease.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Many thanks to everyone who offered information and/or advice, you have been a big help. While all the details have not yet been worked out it does look like we will have the Baha’i conducting their workshops in our church. Hopefully both the Baha’i and us UUs will be able to learn, benefit and grow from the experience.

I also posted the question in the Baha’i Faith forum and got some great feedback.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48775

This is why I love this group of forums, real issues discussed by real people in a polite and positive manner. Thanks again to everyone involved.

Trey

 

[arthra]

Since Trey was kind enough to post the dilemma of his church on the Baha'i forum, I thought I would offer a response to question posed here by lilithu..

"What exactly is the Baha'i view on homosexuality? What are the views of this particular group of Baha'i? Do they actively preach about it or is it believed but not mentioned? And would the group be actively doing anything about its beliefs out in the community, like advocating against marriage equality for example?"

.............................................

Baha'is don't preach about homosexuality. We don't have preachers anyway.. but in our laws and moral codes homosexual acts are forbidden... There are also other laws we have that we don't use alcohol or gamble, etc.

Baha'is don't recognize marriages of same sex couples, at least among Baha'is we don't. Generally, among ourselves, we are pretty "conservative" about relations between the sexes and believe sex should only be in the context of marriage.

Our principles are probably considered more "liberal" by most today, that is we believe a solution to wars is a world government and an international tribunal, that there should be a universal auxiliary language, and that men and women should be equal...mankind is one (oppose discrimination and prejudice) and that all religions have a Divine Origin.

One of our early Baha'is in the United States around 1912 was a Unitarian minister named Howard Colby Ives who met Abdul-Baha and was very impressed with Him....

http://bahai-library.com/file.php5?file=ives_portals_freedom&language=All

so there have been times when we Baha'is have gotten along rather well with Unitarians and Universalists.

So while we probably share some of the same ideals many Unitarians have we are also probably pretty conservative when you consider our social life.

In friendship,

- Art

 

[lilithu]

Since Trey was kind enough to post the dilemma of his church on the Baha'i forum, I thought I would offer a response to question posed here by lilithu..

Atrhra, namaste. Thank you for taking the time to impart some knowledge with us.

I very much disagree with the Baha'i view on homosexuality. That said, as I said in my first post, we are rarely going to find others who agree with us on everything. (If they did, they'd be us, right?) And part of practicing tolerance and openness is to be able to look past differences in beliefs to see what we do have in common. And I know that the UUs and the Baha'i have a lot in common in other respects.

Ultimately, the decision is up to Trey's congregation. If I were voting, and if I felt confident that the Baha'i were not going to try to impose their view of homosexuality on the congregation, which from what arthra said would not happen, then I would vote for extending a welcome to share our space.

 

[Popeyesays]

It should be noted that the objection is to sex outside marriage. We do not look in bedroom windows, it's a waste of time and an invasion of privacy, but if a heterosexual couple take up residence with one another and every one knows it is for the purpose of living in an intimate relationship--given that one or both are Baha`i--that is not acceptable either The matter would be consulted on in the assembly, the Baha`i's in subject would be asked to consult with the assembly and asked to rectify the situation.

If they refused or if the situation could only be rectified by separation (because of another marriage or a Year of Patience in progress) then the assembly would probably request the National Spiritual Assembly to revoke the administrative rights of the Baha`i's involved.

That revocation would be in effect until the situation was rectified.

The Baha`i writings do not allow homosexual marriage. It is unequivocal and without compromise. It's not a decision that can be amended by any authority living or established. Will the next Manifestation of God abrogate that law? I do not know but it would be His/Her right to do so; but no one else's until that time.

Regards,
Scott