Shocking assurances in the Quran

[Right_Path]

The Quran involves various miracles that can be used as proof of its divinity. However, let's focus on one aspect which reflects the Quran's might; foretold truths.

Here are some verses in the Quran which reveal how challenging the Quran is, assurances that can hardly be attributed to Mohamed's own prediction.

1-(30) The Romans (Al-Rum) 1-4

1-4''Alif, Lam, Mim. The Romans have been defeated in the lowest land, but after their defeat they will be victorious within three to nine years. The affair is Allah's from beginning to end. On that day, the believers will rejoice.''

Interpretation:
Miracles of the Qur'an - Modern Science Reveals New Miracles of the Qur'an


2- (48)Victory (Al-Fatt-h)

27''Allah has confirmed His Messenger's vision with truth: You will enter the Masjid al-Haram [Sacred Mosque] in safety, Allah willing, shaving your heads and cutting your hair without any fear. He knew what you did not know and ordained, in place of this, an imminent victory.''

Interpretation:
Miracles of the Qur'an - Modern Science Reveals New Miracles of the Qur'an

3-(111)Thorns (Al-Masad)

1- Condemned are the works of Abou Lahab, and he is condemned.
2-His money and whatever he has accomplished will never help him.
3-He has incurred the blazing Hell.
4-Also his wife, the carrier of the crackling wood.
5-She will be (resurrected) with a rope of thorns around her neck.

Just look at the sheer confidence here. Abou Lahab would have shattered Islam if only he announced that he has become Muslim (even falsely). But no, neither he nor his wife dared to.

Why would Mohamed take this chance of losing everything in an instance?

4- (74) Al-Muddathir

(26)''Soon will I cast him into Hell-Fire.''

The verse refers to another pagan Al-Waleed bin Al-Mougheera.

In the same manner (like Abou Lahab), Al-Waleed has been promised imminent punishment (in the hereafter) during his life. Yet he did not counteract.

Another interesting Quranic story involving Al-Waleed is here:

After the Quran slammed Al-Waleed at the beginning of the Surah, the final declaration in verse 13 was shocking.

(68)The Pen (Al-Qalam)

10-despicable man,- ready with oaths
11-A slanderer, going about with calumnies
12-(Habitually) hindering (all) good, transgressing beyond bounds, deep in sin,

13-Violent (and cruel),- with all that, base-born.

Al-Waleed never knew he was base-born before these verses were revealed by Mohamed PBUH. Al-Waleed went straight to his mother (a pagan), asked her about his birth, and then she confessed that he was base-born. He never knew his father.

There are several other incidents in prophet Mohamed's life which proves he was a true messenger, that I will open another thread for soon.

 

[Caladan]

First I have to ask, what is the purpose of the thread?

let me assure you that you dont have to feel insecure about your faith, with posting messages that give legitimacy to Muhammad. its your faith, and you are the one who lives with it. its better to run inter religious dialogues, without trying to explain why a faith is ineffable, there are enough people on the forum that respect Islam, without the need to talk to them about divinity and miracles found in this faith.

Concerning miracles, many world scriptures describe miracles in their story telling, I don't see why anyone would take this story telling as fact. miracle making doesnt exist today, and it has not existed before, its not a good basis for a philosophy when taken literaly, its better to read these stories for what they are, instead of giving them a fantastic dimension, the kind that many children have after reading the Wizard of Oz.
the miracles in the story Alice in Wonder Land are not a basis for the Divinity of Lewis Carroll.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

I think the thread should be moved to "Islam" forum, unless Right_Path has a debate here in his intentions..

 

[Right_Path]

I think the purpose of the thread is clear; proving that the Quran was the word of God, isn't that enough to create a debate?!!

 

[YmirGF]

I think the purpose of the thread is clear; proving that the Quran was the word of God, isn't that enough to create a debate?!!

You do understand that such "proofs" are generally convincing only to other muslims, correct. In English, we call it "singing to the choir".

 

[Right_Path]

You do understand that such "proofs" are generally convincing only to other muslims, correct. In English, we call it "singing to the choir".

Well they are convincing to Muslims, but I felt that non-Muslims could have a look as well, maybe they can be convincing ''not only to other Muslims''.

 

[Father Heathen]

Holy Books cannot serve as their own proof.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

mmm...I think a moderator would judge if this thread carries enough debates...
I think it does myself..

You do understand that such "proofs" are generally convincing only to other muslims, correct. In English, we call it "singing to the choir".

mmm, ok, why don't you "discuss" your POV?...How do u find them not convincing?

Regards

 

[kai]

is all down to interpretation and a willingness to beleive without this "willingness" its just not very convincing

 

[YmirGF]

mmm...I think a moderator would judge if this thread carries enough debates... I think it does myself..

Well, of course you would, you are a Muslim, so all probably sounds perfectly reasonable.

mmm, ok, why don't you "discuss" your POV?...How do u find them not convincing?

I have this underlying belief that when you are presented with a silly idea there is little to be gained from arguing about said idea as that simply lends credibility to the silly idea.

Further to this, I think that those who see endless miracles in the Qur'an simply have far too much time on their hands.

 

[UnityNow101]

Holy Books cannot serve as their own proof.

You mean to tell me if I write a book and proclaim it as truth, with no legitimate facts to back it up, it would not be considered truth? You are a heretic to rational reasoning, my friend. Shame on you, Heathen. Read a book and know the truth. Live with experience and let that deceive you...

 

[Right_Path]

I have this underlying belief that when you are presented with a silly idea there is little to be gained from arguing about said idea as that simply lends credibility to the silly idea.

Further to this, I think that those who see endless miracles in the Qur'an simply have far too much time on their hands.

First, its not about the idea being silly, its obviously because you are not able to emphasize your POV...you have little to say.

Second, if you think it is silly without even considering it, then we are not willing to listen to your opinion...save your precious 'time' and go to another thread.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Well, of course you would, you are a Muslim, so all probably sounds perfectly reasonable.

Interestingly, not...I dont find all "miracles in Quran" really miracles..however thats not the issue here

I have this underlying belief that when you are presented with a silly idea there is little to be gained from arguing about said idea as that simply lends credibility to the silly idea.

Further to this, I think that those who see endless miracles in the Qur'an simply have far too much time on their hands.

Thanks for openning up and showing us your beliefs Paul, appreciate it really.
Why did you even bother and post two times in this thread if you think it's really that silly?...I mean, you could have wasted this time in other stuff that can actually "give you"..

Anyway, as a human being who cares about others, can you briefly tell us why the "silly idea" is silly?...I mean, I (personally) think there is much to be gained from knowing your POV..


Regards,

Ahmed

 

[maro]

Why did you even bother and post two times in this thread if you think it's really that silly?...I mean, you could have wasted this time in other stuff that can actually "give you"..

Not only this thread ,the ironic thing is that he keeps wasting his precious time in all the threads that contain the word Islam in them , just to tell us how silly our faith is ,and how mentally retarded we and our prophet are...:sarcastic
I ,myself , think it's a great loss for such a "genius" :areyoucra to waste his " precious " time on such silly threads...the man is much more superior than that ,really

 

[YmirGF]

First, its not about the idea being silly, its obviously because you are not able to emphasize your POV...you have little to say.

Acutally, no. What I am saying is that the OP does not warrant any meaningful discussion, in my view, at least. Let’s compare translations and see just how meaningful the assertion is.

Comparative analysis of 30:2

ar-Rum (The Romans, The Byzantines) 30:2 ‏30:2 غلبت الروم

Transliteration: Ghulibati alrroomu

Literal: The Romans were defeated/conquered

Yusuf Ali: The Roman Empire has been defeated-
Pickthal: The Romans have been defeated
Arberry: The Greeks have been vanquished
Shakir: The Romans are vanquished,
Sarwar: The Romans have been defeated in a nearby land and after this defeat,
Khalifa: Certainly, the Romans will be defeated.
Hilali/Khan: The Romans have been defeated.
H/K/Saheeh: The Byzantines have been defeated
Malik: The Romans have been defeated (by the Persians, in Syria - A.D. 615; the Prophet Muhammad’s sympathies were with the Romans who were Christians, while the pagan Arabs were on the side of the Persians who were idol worshippers)
QXP: The Romans have been defeated.
Maulana Ali: The Romans are vanquished
Free Minds: The Romans have won.
Qaribullah: The Romans have been defeated (by the Persians)
George Sale: The Greeks have been overcome by the Persians,
JM Rodwell: THE GREEKS have been defeated
Asad: Defeated have been the Byzantines


Comparative analysis of 30:2

ar-Rum (The Romans, The Byzantines) 30:3 ‏30:3 في ادنى الارض وهم من بعد غلبهم سيغلبون

Transliteration: Fee adna al-ardi wahum min baAAdi ghalabihim sayaghliboona

Literal: In the land's/planet Earth's nearest, and they, from after their defeat they will conquer

Yusuf Ali: In a land close by; but they, (even) after (this) defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious-
Pickthal: In the nearer land, and they, after their defeat will be victorious
Arberry: in the nearer part of the land; and, after their vanquishing, they shall be the victors
Shakir: In a near land, and they, after being vanquished, shall overcome,
Sarwar: (within a few years) they will be victorious.
Khalifa: In the nearest land. After their defeat, they will rise again and win.
Hilali/Khan: In the nearer land (Syria, Iraq, Jordan, and Palestine), and they, after their defeat, will be victorious.
H/K/Saheeh: In the nearest land. But they, after their defeat, will overcome.
Malik: in the neighboring land, but after this defeat, they will soon be victorious
QXP: In the lands close-by - yet it is they who despite this defeat of theirs shall be victorious.
Maulana Ali: In a near land, and they, after their defeat, will gain victory
Free Minds: At the lowest point on the Earth. But after their victory, they will be defeated.
Qaribullah: in a land close by. But, in a few years after their defeat they shall become the victors.
George Sale: in the nearest part of the land; but after their defeat, they shall overcome the others in their turn,
JM Rodwell: In a land hard by: But after their defeat they shall defeat their foes,
Asad: in the lands close-by; yet it is they who, notwithstanding this their defeat, shall be victorious
(con't)

 

[YmirGF]

Comparative analysis of 30:4

ar-Rum (The Romans, The Byzantines) 30:4 ‏30:4 في بضع سنين لله الامر من قبل ومن بعد ويومئذ يفرح المؤمنون

Transliteration: Fee bidAAi sineena lillahi al-amru min qablu wamin baAAdu wayawma-ithin yafrahu almu/minoona

Literal: In (a) few years (between 3-9), to God (is) the matter/order from before and from after, and (on) that day the believers rejoice/delight

Yusuf Ali: Within a few years. With Allah is the Decision, in the past and in the Future: on that Day shall the Believers rejoice-
Pickthal: Within ten years - Allah's is the command in the former case and in the latter - and in that day believers will rejoice
Arberry: in a few years. To God belongs the Command before and after, and on that day the believers shall rejoice
Shakir: Within a few years. Allah's is the command before and after; and on that day the believers shall rejoice,
Sarwar: All matters of the past and future are in the hands of God. The believers will enjoy the help of God on that Day.
Khalifa: Within several years. Such is GOD's decision, both in the first prophecy, and the second. On that day, the believers shall rejoice.
Hilali/Khan: Within three to nine years. The decision of the matter, before and after (these events) is only with Allah, (before the defeat of Romans by the Persians, and after, i.e. the defeat of the Persians by the Romans). And on that Day, the believers (i.e. Muslims) will rejoice (at the victory given by Allah to the Romans against the Persians),
H/K/Saheeh: Within three to nine years. To Allah belongs the command before and after. And that day the believers will rejoice
Malik: within a few years. The command lies with Allah in the past instance as well as in the future. On that day the believers will rejoice[4]
QXP: Within ten years! For with Allah is the Command in the Past and in the Future. And on that day the believers too will have cause to rejoice.
Maulana Ali: Within nine years. Allah’s is the command before an after. And on that day the believers will rejoice
Free Minds: In a few more years. The decision before and after is for God, and on that day the believers will rejoice.
Qaribullah : To Allah belongs the Command before and after, and on that Day the believers will rejoice
George Sale: within a few years. Unto God belongeth the disposal of this matter, both for what is past, and for what is to come: And on that day shall the believers rejoice
JM Rodwell: In a few years. First and last is the affair with God. And on that day shall the faithful rejoice
Asad: within a few years: [for] with God rests all power of decision, first and last. [Lit., "before and after". The defeats and victories spoken of above relate to the last phases of the centuries-long struggle between the Byzantine and Persian Empires. During the early years of the seventh century the Persians conquered parts of Syria and Anatolia, "the lands close-by", i.e., near the heartland of the Byzantine umpire; in 613 they took Damascus and it 614, Jerusalem; Egypt fell to them in 615-16, and at the same time they laid siege to Constantinople itself. At the time of the revelation of this surah - about the seventh year before the hijrah, corresponding to 615 or 616 of the Christian era - the total destruction of the Byzantine Empire seemed imminent. The few Muslims around the Prophet were despondent on hearing the news of the utter discomfiture of the Byzantines, who were Christians and, as such, believed in the One God. The pagan Quraysh, on the other hand, sympathized with the Persians who, they thought, would vindicate their own opposition to the One-God idea. When Muhammad enunciated the above Quran-verses predicting a Byzantine victory "within a few years", this prophecy was received with derision by the Quraysh. Now the term bid (commonly rendered as "a few") denotes any number between three and ten; and, as it happened, in 622 - i.e., six or seven years after the Quranic prediction - the tide turned in favour of the Byzantines. In that year, Emperor Heraclius succeeded in defeating the Persians at Issus, south of the Taurus Mountains, and subsequently drove them out of Asia Minor. By 624, he carried the war into Persian territory and thus put the enemy on the defensive: and in the beginning of December, 626, the Persian armies were completely routed by the Byzantines.] And on that day will the believers [too, have cause to] rejoice


Clearly, the whole idea of some inherent miracle is dependent on the translation used. Curiously only one translator, Free Minds, considers the phrase “At the lowest point on the Earth” to be an appropriate rendering of the Arabic source material. This nullifies a rather interesting chunk of material from the “Miraclesofthequran.com” site. With this in mind, the prediction of 3 to 9 years could be attributed to the political acumen of Muhammed and is not proof of divine stick handling. You have to remember that Prophet Muhammed [pbuh] may have been a lot of things, but he was neither stupid nor politically naïve. Add to this the fact that Arabic is a language that employs many definitions to the same word and you have a recipe for rather creative conjecture. (PS: Thanks to Jay for the Comparative Qur’an website.)

Second, if you think it is silly without even considering it, then we are not willing to listen to your opinion...save your precious 'time' and go to another thread.

O' good grief, I wasn’t commenting on the value of my time, I was saying that the people who concoct this kind of rubbish have too much time on their hands and really should get out more often and smell the flowers. A more compelling question might be, “Why do Muslims feel the need to make the Qur’an so miraculous?” Any thinking person would expect an authentic work of God would stand on its own without any further need of support. Perhaps I am just being silly though.

 

[Ben Masada]

I think the thread should be moved to "Islam" forum, unless Right_Path has a debate here in his intentions..

How is it that you being a Muslim have chosen a Jewish avatar with such a Jewish name?

Ben

 

[darkendless]

I have to ask, what makes these miracles, miracles? Do you honestly believe they occured to prove Islam, or are they useful for sources of inspiration when you're feeling down?
I do not think miracles are reasonable or they exist, theres always chance. However, biblical/Quranic miracles are often very very exhaderated, so to me maybe they didn't happen, and divinity is not "proven" this way, they're just there to guide you when you've lost your way???

 

[Ben Masada]

I think the purpose of the thread is clear; proving that the Quran was the word of God, isn't that enough to create a debate?!!

What is it precisely that makes one claim that a certain book is the Word of God
when it has been written by man? In that case, the thing to go after is man and
not the book.

Ben

 

[herushura]

The Quran involves various miracles that can be used as proof of its divinity. However, let's focus on one aspect which reflects the Quran's might; foretold truths.

Here are some verses in the Quran which reveal how challenging the Quran is, assurances that can hardly be attributed to Mohamed's own prediction.

1-(30) The Romans (Al-Rum) 1-4

1-4''Alif, Lam, Mim. The Romans have been defeated in the lowest land, but after their defeat they will be victorious within three to nine years. The affair is Allah's from beginning to end. On that day, the believers will rejoice.''

Interpretation:
Miracles of the Qur'an - Modern Science Reveals New Miracles of the Qur'an


2- (48)Victory (Al-Fatt-h)

27''Allah has confirmed His Messenger's vision with truth: You will enter the Masjid al-Haram [Sacred Mosque] in safety, Allah willing, shaving your heads and cutting your hair without any fear. He knew what you did not know and ordained, in place of this, an imminent victory.''

Interpretation:
Miracles of the Qur'an - Modern Science Reveals New Miracles of the Qur'an

3-(111)Thorns (Al-Masad)

1- Condemned are the works of Abou Lahab, and he is condemned.
2-His money and whatever he has accomplished will never help him.
3-He has incurred the blazing Hell.
4-Also his wife, the carrier of the crackling wood.
5-She will be (resurrected) with a rope of thorns around her neck.

Just look at the sheer confidence here. Abou Lahab would have shattered Islam if only he announced that he has become Muslim (even falsely). But no, neither he nor his wife dared to.

Why would Mohamed take this chance of losing everything in an instance?

4- (74) Al-Muddathir

(26)''Soon will I cast him into Hell-Fire.''

The verse refers to another pagan Al-Waleed bin Al-Mougheera.

In the same manner (like Abou Lahab), Al-Waleed has been promised imminent punishment (in the hereafter) during his life. Yet he did not counteract.

Another interesting Quranic story involving Al-Waleed is here:

After the Quran slammed Al-Waleed at the beginning of the Surah, the final declaration in verse 13 was shocking.

(68)The Pen (Al-Qalam)

10-despicable man,- ready with oaths
11-A slanderer, going about with calumnies
12-(Habitually) hindering (all) good, transgressing beyond bounds, deep in sin,

13-Violent (and cruel),- with all that, base-born.

Al-Waleed never knew he was base-born before these verses were revealed by Mohamed PBUH. Al-Waleed went straight to his mother (a pagan), asked her about his birth, and then she confessed that he was base-born. He never knew his father.

There are several other incidents in prophet Mohamed's life which proves he was a true messenger, that I will open another thread for soon.

Sun/Zodiacal Allagory