Should a Convicted Felon Be Allowed to Remain on the Presidential Ballot?

[mikkel_the_dane]

No. It's fact. But of course you can simply remain deluded about the facts.

Well, it is not a fact what government is about. It is a fact that subjectively a government can be oppresive. But you are confusing subjective, true, real, fact with objective.
We are debating different worldviews for their subjective parts.

 

[Secret Chief]

Obviously not. But the USA is looking a bit sick right now. The leader of the free world.

 

[metis]

Should a convicted felon be allowed to remain in the presidential ballot? Why or why not?

Depends on whether the violation was based on state or federal law. With the latter, no.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I do not agree with the Democratic strategy of running Biden as a safe candidate.

I would say that they're showing that Trump is dangerous. Biden is more than safe. He's decent, experienced, effective, and has a great track record.

I would hope that citizens would not nominate and vote for a criminal candidate.

But alas. This is the new America, where nearly half (probably over a third) have no problem with Trump.

That Congress failed to impeach it from office and actually carry that out in full is probably one of the greatest failures of this country's national government in history.

Agreed.

I think Trump showed us that the protections in the Constitution don't work anymore. Checks and balances is gone now that you have congresspersons and Supreme Court justices enabling Trump and his crimes (your mention of Congress's failure to convict fits there). The idea that a sitting president is immune from legal proceedings has become a problem. The power of presidential pardons has been used against the country's best interests. Better safeguards are needed to protect national secrets from presidents.

The American system seems to require that a certain fraction of the electorate be aware of what American principles are and support them, and that the majority be decent and have the country's back. That's just not the case anymore. America seems to be at a tipping point in its transformation into something unrecognizable to Americans. Lying, bigotry, and thuggery have been normalized.

 

[F1fan]

I would say that they're showing that Trump is dangerous. Biden is more than safe. He's decent, experienced, effective, and has a great track record.

The false right wing rhetoric against Biden seems to have some impact on democrats, and I'm not sure why. The alternative of Trump is so bad that even if all the false claims about Biden were true Trump is still vastly worse. I think a debate with high ratings would reveal how unbalanced Trump is in contrast to Biden. The only reason I see bits of Trump rallies is because I watch clips that are posted online. It's frightening. I doubt most of the voters have seen Trump in full mindless fury ranting about nonsense.

But alas. This is the new America, where nearly half (probably over a third) have no problem with Trump.

Which is a curiosity. I have to think many of these voters just are too absorbed in their everyday lives that news is not a priority.

I think Trump showed us that the protections in the Constitution don't work anymore. Checks and balances is gone now that you have congresspersons and Supreme Court justices enabling Trump and his crimes (your mention of Congress's failure to convict fits there). The idea that a sitting president is immune from legal proceedings has become a problem. The power of presidential pardons has been used against the country's best interests. Better safeguards are needed to protect national secrets from presidents.

The American system seems to require that a certain fraction of the electorate be aware of what American principles are and support them, and that the majority be decent and have the country's back. That's just not the case anymore. America seems to be at a tipping point in its transformation into something unrecognizable to Americans. Lying, bigotry, and thuggery have been normalized.

I never understood how much of an honor system our system of government really is, and how important it is to elect honorable and ethical people. It's taken a professional conman to really exploit the honor system's weakness of relying on ethical people, and this has invited many others willing to suspend dignity, duty, ethics, integrity, and even the law to gain power. I've said since Trump was gaining popularity in 2016 that America needs to hit bottom before it realizes that Trump kind of governing is anti-democratic, anti-American, and destined for a massive fight between MAGA and everyone else. I can't see moderate conservatives willing to see America collapse for the sake of a guy like Trump, and his greedy and selfish political allies. Germans in 1945 allowed their nation to be destroyed because their leader would not surrender when it was obvious that the war was lost. Will moderates really lose their way of life and assets because Trump and MAGAs want their vision of America at all costs?

This election will be the deciding factor.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

My only conclusion is that polling is a rather worthless set of data. Remember that Clinton had sizable polling advantages before the election. Obama was behind in polling to Romney until the election. Romney was shocked that he lost, his own polling assured his win. So looking at trends it would be bad if Biden was leading in these early polls.

It's useful, but we need to pay attention to the confidence intervals on the polls.

The way that most states allocate their EC votes all-or-nothing to a single candidate tends to make small margins of victory look bigger than they really are.

I'd have to dig it up again, but FiveThirtyEight did a review of their predictions after their overall projection of a Clinton win proved to be wrong. IIRC, they found that ~95% of their state-level projections were correct within the 95% confidence interval for them, which is exactly what is expected from good data.

The error was in overstating their inferences from the data. Their overall projection should have been "too close to call," since that's what the underlying data was actually telling them.

 

[libre]

Should a convicted felon be allowed to remain in the presidential ballot? Why or why not?

I think the Debs campaign was a good thing:

Nov. 2, 1920: Imprisoned Eugene V. Debs Received One Million Votes for U.S. President

Eugene V. Debs received one million votes in the U.S. presidential election while in prison on the Socialist Party ticket.

www.zinnedproject.org

I would be hypocritical to change my mind just because the relevant felon is highly distasteful.

However, if someone wanted to pass legislation banning known rapists from running, that would be more acceptable to me.

 

[Pogo]

It's equally concerning as to the type of laws that makes a person a felon over an act that shouldn't be even be a felony in the first place.

You don't think election interference should be a felony?

 

[Stonetree]

I figure that would require a historical template to answer such a question.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/04/world/trump-indictment-world-leaders-intl/index.html

Trump wouldn't be the first, won't be the last.

My own take is non violent felons can arguably be allowed to run for political office.

Strange that distinction would put Trump alongside domestic felons like the late Lyndon LaRouche who ran for office.

It's still legal and it's a yes.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/30/politics/can-trump-still-run-for-president-what-matters/index.html

Can Felons vote?

1. elections.ny.gov › voting-after-incarcerationVoting After Incarceration | New York State Board of Elections​

   
   A new law passed in 2021, restores the right to vote for a person convicted of a felony upon release from incarceration, regardless of if they are on parole or have a term of post-release supervision. If a convicted felon is not incarcerated, they are eligible to register to vote. Notice of Felon Registration Rights.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Can Felons vote?

I think they should after paying their debt to society.

Voting obviously , from a historical standpoint is a privilege in this country and not a right.

 

[Stonetree]

I think they should after paying their debt to society.

Voting obviously , from a historical standpoint is a privilege in this country and not a right.

I edited my post .

1. elections.ny.gov › voting-after-incarcerationVoting After Incarceration | New York State Board of Elections​

   
   A new law passed in 2021, restores the right to vote for a person convicted of a felony upon release from incarceration, regardless of if they are on parole or have a term of post-release supervision. If a convicted felon is not incarcerated, they are eligible to register to vote. Notice of Felon Registration Rights.

 

[Twilight Hue]

U8h

I edited my post .

1. elections.ny.gov › voting-after-incarcerationVoting After Incarceration | New York State Board of Elections​

   
   A new law passed in 2021, restores the right to vote for a person convicted of a felony upon release from incarceration, regardless of if they are on parole or have a term of post-release supervision. If a convicted felon is not incarcerated, they are eligible to register to vote. Notice of Felon Registration Rights.

I think it's a good thing provided that the debt to society is payed.

 

[Stonetree]

U8h

I think it's a good thing provided that the debt to society is payed.

In Florida, where Donald Trump is registered to vote,
will allow a felon to vote if the state where the felon
was convicted allows felons to vote.

 

[Twilight Hue]

In Florida, where Donald Trump is registered to vote,
will allow a felon to vote if the state where the felon
was convicted allows felons to vote.

That would be the state of Florida then. Trumps present domicile.

 

[LuisDantas]

I figure that would require a historical template to answer such a question.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/04/world/trump-indictment-world-leaders-intl/index.html

Trump wouldn't be the first, won't be the last.

My own take is non violent felons can arguably be allowed to run for political office.

Strange that distinction would put Trump alongside domestic felons like the late Lyndon LaRouche who ran for office.

It's still legal and it's a yes.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/30/politics/can-trump-still-run-for-president-what-matters/index.html

Why is that strange? Who do you think Trump.is?

 

[Kathryn]

Hey, many of us live in Murica, where we don't go by the rules of many other nations,

 

[Quintessence]

Right now the economy is a greater concern than woman's rights unfortunately for many. If people could reason rationally that would not be a problem, but Trump is a liar and too many people want to believe his lies about the economy. One thing that gives me hope when it comes to polls is that in regards to abortion rights they have not been very accurate lately. That may be because too many women feel the presence of their spouse or mate when answering polls. It seems that they answer polls one way and vote anothe.

At any rate it is time to try to educate the American people on economics and where Trump's changes were bringing us.

What's weird to me about this is that women's rights are an economic concern when we're talking about forced birth. Children are flipping expensive. Forcing women and their families to raise unwanted children when they are already struggling economically is stupid.

 

[VoidCat]

Depends on the felony

 

[Banach-Tarski Paradox]

I figure that would require a historical template to answer such a question.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/04/world/trump-indictment-world-leaders-intl/index.html

Trump wouldn't be the first, won't be the last.

My own take is non violent felons can arguably be allowed to run for political office.

Strange that distinction would put Trump alongside domestic felons like the late Lyndon LaRouche who ran for office.

It's still legal and it's a yes.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/30/politics/can-trump-still-run-for-president-what-matters/index.html

Nonviolent is not an adjective that I have generally used for this particular felon in the past.

And I don’t think I’m going to start now.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Nonviolent is not an adjective that I have generally used for this particular felon in the past.

And I don’t think I’m going to start now.

Well I'm not aware of any violent action going on on a mass scale as of yet.