Should belief be private?

[Noaidi]

Should religious beliefs (which, let's face it, can't really be externally verified) be kept solely to the individual, or are people with beliefs justified in passing these on to their children? Should the beliefs be allowed to be publicised within society or should they be kept personal?

From my own perspective, I think that people are free to believe in whatever they want, be it a god, fairies, invisible donkeys - whatever. My beef is when they introduce it into society (schools, in particular - why are the young always targetted?!), and they are given certain privileges or are allowed to say certain things because of their beliefs.

 

[Engyo]

The young are targeted because early on they don't question what they are told.

 

[LuisDantas]

People can't very well separate their beliefs from their lives, now can they?

I don't have much of a problem with "targeting the young" as long as the young have the opportunity to learn of other perspectives as well. Expounding beliefs is fine. Insulating children from others is not so fine.

 

[Noaidi]

Yes, and by the time they get to an age where they start to question, often they have been so indoctinated that breaking away can seem like a betrayal to their parents or church or cult or whatever.

 

[Noaidi]

People can't very well separate their beliefs from their lives, now can they?

I don't have much of a problem with "targeting the young" as long as the young have the opportunity to learn of other perspectives as well. Expounding beliefs is fine. Insulating children from others is not so fine.

No, they can't separate their beliefs from their lives, but they can separate others from their beliefs.

 

[tarasan]

No, they can't separate their beliefs from their lives, but they can separate others from their beliefs.

well if you asked me to cut my religion out of who I was, there wouldnt be much left.

I think we have to be honest with our kids, tell them what we believe and why we believe them, let them learn about other prespectives in school and ultimately let them make their own decisions in life.

 

[MissAlice]

Should religious beliefs (which, let's face it, can't really be externally verified) be kept solely to the individual, or are people with beliefs justified in passing these on to their children? Should the beliefs be allowed to be publicised within society or should they be kept personal?

From my own perspective, I think that people are free to believe in whatever they want, be it a god, fairies, invisible donkeys - whatever. My beef is when they introduce it into society (schools, in particular - why are the young always targeted?!), and they are given certain privileges or are allowed to say certain things because of their beliefs.

I actually think this is such a tough question when it comes to the individual and the "religious" or fairytale stuff they were raised to believe with. I don't know if I have a great answer to this question since I'm going through some difficulties myself.

My oldest neice among her other neice and nephew who has passed away is still trying to come to grips with what happens after we die. I don't now if I made the mistake in her age group (being 5) of letting her know that her grandparents and nephew are doing ok. When I look back on it, I feel so bad yet I didn't want my sister mad at me or for her (Skylar) to feel discomfort. She is a very sensative child and reminds me so much of myself. She doesn't go to church or is involved with an organized religion yet my sister and us inadvertently or adverntly..you be the judge have got it in her head that the dead are in a world much similar to this one only better.

Again I realize I may have made the mistake in telling her from my own POV, that they're doing well...whatever that means. Our society is bombarded by churches with hopes of the hereafter that furthers this problem. She is now interested in the Golden's Children Bible as we speak and many other mythological and spiritual subjects. She is very smart for her age and sometimes I worry whether or not I do the right thing in being her aunt. I do not know what to tell her. The ups about her "belief" if you can call it that is she believes she will one day join them. This makes me cry since at her age, I was the same way about birth and death, as if we had a purpose and it was written in our destinations. I know better now but I really do not know how to bring about death since kids are so different in the way they handle them. My niece like myself does not handle them very well.

My only hope is she no matter atheist or not, grows up with a healthy sense of identity. I would hate to see her go into a blind path and knowing her, I don't think she will. ( ;

 

[blackout]

well if you asked me to cut my religion out of who I was, there wouldnt be much left.

Just wondering.... what is it (specifically) that would be left?

Genuinely wondering. Hope the question doesn't offend.

 

[Storm]

Should religious beliefs (which, let's face it, can't really be externally verified) be kept solely to the individual, or are people with beliefs justified in passing these on to their children? Should the beliefs be allowed to be publicised within society or should they be kept personal?

From my own perspective, I think that people are free to believe in whatever they want, be it a god, fairies, invisible donkeys - whatever. My beef is when they introduce it into society (schools, in particular - why are the young always targetted?!), and they are given certain privileges or are allowed to say certain things because of their beliefs.

I don't see how it's any different from political beliefs, or being out of the closet. We should never feel we have to hide who we are.

 

[MissAlice]

I don't see how it's any different from political beliefs, or being out of the closet. We should never feel we have to hide who we are.

Seconded. :yes:

 

[tarasan]

Just wondering.... what is it (specifically) that would be left?

Genuinely wondering. Hope the question doesn't offend.

My religion is something that has greatly influenced me in my life, I got my morality and my perception of the world through my religious understanding, as well as how I should treat people.

If you expect me to cut all that out what do you expect me to do.

"Matt why do you help those less fortunate than yourself"

"Matt why do you treat people so well?"

what am I meant to do lie?

say is some other reason or dodge the question and say just cause?

 

[blackout]

I get REALLY annoyed by the enforced patriotism in the public schools.

Down to patriotic songs learned in "music class" for a grade.
(holds her nose)

Lot's of societal/political/systemic indoctrination.
But then how do you take the system out of the system?
It survives by it's own self purpetration/promotion.

Not much different than mainstream religion.

Pretty much the exact same thing really.

 

[tarasan]

I get REALLY annoyed by the enforced patriotism in the public schools.

Down to patriotic songs learned in "music class" for a grade.
(holds her nose)

Lot's of societal/political/systemic indoctrination.
But then how do you take the system out of the system?
It survives by it's own self purpetration/promotion.

Not much different than mainstream religion.

Pretty much the exact same thing really.

we indoctrinate our kids no matter what we do to be honest, we indoctrinate them to hold the views we hold as important, wether they be athiestic, thiestic, communistic, democratic etc.

so i dont see how you can say i cant teach my kids what I believe, unless of course you prove that what im doing is worse than anyone else.

 

[blackout]

My religion is something that has greatly influenced me in my life, I got my morality and my perception of the world through my religious understanding, as well as how I should treat people.

If you expect me to cut all that out what do you expect me to do.

"Matt why do you help those less fortunate than yourself"

"Matt why do you treat people so well?"

what am I meant to do lie?

say is some other reason or dodge the question and say just cause?

I don't really get this Tarasan.

You don't help less fortunate people simply because you WANT to?

You don't treat people well... because... well because....
you share some basic human empathy with them?

I don't see what religion has to do with either of these things.

PS... if you're looking for less fortunate people to help,
I have my hand raised. not kidding.
(assuming of course, that I'm less fortunate than you.
Which in the basic needs department, right now, might very well be true.)

 

[tarasan]

I don't really get this Tarasan.

You don't help less fortunate people simply because you WANT to?

You don't treat people well... because... well because....
you share some basic human empathy with them?

I don't see what religion has to do with either of these things.

PS... if you're looking for less fortunate people to help,
I have my hand raised. not kidding.

its because thats what I was raised to believe, If we were raised right we were taught that it is right to treat people well help them out.

ohhh and what can i do to help?

 

[ThirdEyeOpen]

well if you asked me to cut my religion out of who I was, there wouldnt be much left.

Well what Noaidi was trying to say was to not seperate ones religion from himself but to keep ones religion to himself. In other words two politicians are running for the same office, one Christian, the other Atheist. The Politician who is christian, and proud of it, says God is good and god is great and what not. Well a fellow Christian woulb be in favor of him. Because lets be honest, could you imagine a Christian or any one of faith vote for an Atheist? Never will we see that day.

 

[Storm]

Because lets be honest, could you imagine a Christian or any one of faith vote for an Atheist? Never will we see that day.

I'm a person of faith, and I'd vote for an atheist. Assuming everyone else is a bigot is rather bigoted itself.

 

[tarasan]

Well what Noaidi was trying to say was to not seperate ones religion from himself but to keep ones religion to himself. In other words two politicians are running for the same office, one Christian, the other Atheist. The Politician who is christian, and proud of it, says God is good and god is great and what not. Well a fellow Christian woulb be in favor of him. Because lets be honest, could you imagine a Christian or any one of faith vote for an Atheist? Never will we see that day.

are you serious over in England i just discovered the Lib Dem guy was an athiest, it isnt a big deal for me, anyone who votes someone in because of their religion and not their policies is stupid.

there are plenty of Christians who arnt the most moral of people anyone with half a brain would know not to vote for someone purely because of their religious view.

 

[blackout]

we indoctrinate our kids no matter what we do to be honest, we indoctrinate them to hold the views we hold as important, wether they be athiestic, thiestic, communistic, democratic etc.

so i dont see how you can say i cant teach my kids what I believe, unless of course you prove that what im doing is worse than anyone else.

I never said you can't do anything. :no:

Someone mentioned the schools
as if they were some bastian of diversity.
(Unless my imagination is running on high)
I find the schools to be extremely dogmatic.
The religion of the school,
is society.
Society's expectations and "norms" are it's "traditions" and "sacraments".
It upholds and celebrates it's own feast days.
It's higherarchy/preisthood are councils of politicians.
The breaking of it's laws are authoritatively punishable
by prescribed means.

 

[tarasan]

I never said you can't do anything. :no:

Someone mentioned the schools
as if they were some bastian of diversity.
(Unless my imagination is running on high)
I find the schools to be extremely dogmatic.
The religion of the school,
is society.
It's expectations and "norms" are it's "traditions" and "sacraments".
It's higherarchy/preisthood are councils of politicians.
The breaking of it's laws are authoritatively punishable
by prescribed means.

I think thats the same with everything your culture in many ways shapes who you are and how you think, its an unfortunate truth of life.