Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe Jesus endorsed unequal payments for workers in the field so it is not a stretch to believe unequal tax payment would also be acceptable.
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Should Christians support progressive tax systems?
- Thread starter danieldemol
- Start date
Muffled
Jesus in me
I do not believe He ever preached anything like that. He would be against cheating which does sometimes happen in capitalism such as price gouging. The overturning of the moneychangers tables suggests that.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe as citizens it is our right to comment on taxes. Our belief systems are not inferior to those of unbelievers.
Regiomontanus
Eastern Orthodox
You don't he would be dismayed at the ecological devastation capitalism is causing, destroying Creation because of greed and selfishness?
Heyo
Veteran Member
That is exactly what I said. Comment on taxes as citizens.
Heyo
Veteran Member
According to 1 Samuel 8, Israel had basically an anarchy and YHVH didn't think that having a government (king) was a good idea.
Messianic Israelite
Active Member
Hi Heyo. Good evening.
Yahweh did approve of a King for Israel, although it had to be a king that Yahweh Himself approved of and yes, in 1 Samuel 8:9 a warning goes along with what a King would do. Yahweh had up to that point used a system of judges who as you no doubt know judged Israel as you read in the Book of Judges and also commenced and exercised their judging over Israel each seemingly by saving Israel from their enemies in what can only be described as miracles proving Yahweh was with them. This was a pattern to show what the great Judge, Yahshua the Messiah will do, when Yahshua will come back to this earth and save His people (Isaiah 11:11-13). The problem with Israel is they had rejected Yahweh as their King. They wanted something visible to rule over them, someone who would go in to battle with them and unify them.
Have you forgotten the Law of Yahweh? Yahweh made provisions for a King all the way back in Deuteronomy, I'd estimate about 400 years before this incident where Israel demanded a king. Deuteronomy 17:14-15 says:
"14 When thou art come unto the land which Yahweh your Elohim giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like all the nations that are round about me; 15 thou shalt surely set him king over thee, whom Yahweh your Elohim shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee; thou mayest not put a foreigner over thee, who is not thy brother."
Yahweh's will is that Yahshua our Savior will come and rule over this earth as King at the end of the age of man (Revelation 20:4) for a thousand years. Yahweh indicates this in Exodus 19:6 "and ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." The word Kingdom here is mamlāḵâ.
I wouldn't agree that Israel had complete anarchy in the period of the Judges. When the judges died, then yes, the people lacked direction and succumbed to their carnal natures and drifted from Yahweh. Although the scriptures tell us there was no king in Israel and every man did what was right in their own eyes (Judges 21:25, Judges 17:6), I wonder if this is a paronomasia as Yahweh was supposed to be their king. The Book of Ruth also was written in the time of the judges and there seemed to be an orderliness in Israel's way of life as demonstrated in that book, rather than anarchy. They had direction and leadership under the judge and this system was a good system, as Yahweh was supposed to be their King, nonetheless, the problem is when the judges died, the people reverted to sin thus pointing to the need of an eternal judge on this earth, a representative of Yahweh, who can serve to direct Yahweh's people, even Yahshua,
Yahweh's system s a good system and although he may adjust that system slightly, the general mechanics of that system remain the same.
siti
Well-Known Member
well they're not going to let us do that between now and November are they?
Obviously they don't want that. And their supporters don't want that. And the supporters are difficult to ignore, because they are the once who can force others to follow. Without the supporters, the "Caesars" could be easily ignored.
It appears a stretch to apply Jesus's comments two thousand years ago to the very different circumstances, societies and economies as exist today. Already we see no agreement from Christians here on the topic.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
I think Jesus (of the gospels) wouldn't even be concerned with tax system. If the rich give to the poor and everyone has enough then it doesn't really matter. Jesus promoted charity, free contributions to community and voluntary poverty but he didn't want to fight against civil taxes and also religious contributions to the temple (see below).
When they came to Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma tax went up to Peter and said, “Does your teacher not pay the tax?” He said, “Yes.” And when he came into the house, Jesus spoke to him first, saying, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do kings of the earth take toll or tax? From their sons or from others?” And when he said, “From others,” Jesus said to him, “Then the sons are free. However, not to give offense to them, go to the sea and cast a hook and take the first fish that comes up, and when you open its mouth you will find a shekel. Take that and give it to them for me and for yourself.” (Mt 17)
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
"The Kingdom of God is at hand." All political systems and governments were seen as transitory and near extinction. I see Jesus as a pretty much apolitical figure.
Ok, but the way I see it Christians have no choice but to project the teachings of their leader onto today's circumstances.
It is natural and reasonable for Christians to look to the Teachings within their faith and apply them to the modern world and all its challenges. However, there isn’t any explicit guidance about progressive taxation in the New Testament as it wasn't a concern back then.
I personally believe that taxation is an essential tool for any modern society to fund infrastructure and social services that everyone benefits from. I believe those who earn more should contribute more. I just don't see how a series of books written nearly two thousand years ago will provide Christians with a coherent and agreed approach to politics and economics.
Fair enough, but for the record I wasn't asking for Christians to come up with an agreed approach, rather I was asking what their individual take on it would be as a Christian.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I doubt that. He certainly has done His share of earthly destruction and is going to burn the world up in fire.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Imho, Jesus was not interested in what sort of tax it is, just render unto the government what is required by the way of tax, Christians should devote themselves to God above all.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Yes, they realized that the Kingdom is not so near and that they have to deal also with worldly issues such as politics and economy.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
But he heavily emphasized helping the poor and didn't go against the state doing much of the burden. It would have been counterproductive for him to not encourage what the state was doing as all people mattered, not just those in the Way.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Jesus was primarily about the Kingdom of God, he did feed and help the poor, but he never as far as I know played politics wrt these things. He told Pilate his kingdom was not of this world. But yes, of course he would not be against the government helping the poor.