Should Cocaine and Heroin be legalized along with Marijuana?

[FlyingTeaPot]

Yes, they should all be legalized. It has worked real well in Portugal
Decriminalizing Drugs in Portugal a Success, Says Report - TIME

 

[Barcode]

Yes, they should all be legalized. It has worked real well in Portugal
Decriminalizing Drugs in Portugal a Success, Says Report - TIME

Portugal is not the United States and there are a vast number of US Americans to abuse the drug and flood the healthcare system.

 

[DarkSun]

No, they shouldn't. Heroine and cocaine are far more dangerous than marijuana. Marijuana, on the other hand, isn't a manufactured drug either. It requires no processing. Its non-addictive, something that can't be said even for alcohol. I think its almost harmless.

I'm going to assume that the rest of this thread goes along these lines as well. You're all going to argue, below this post, that marijuana is harmless, that it has countless medical benefits (antidepressant, anaesthetic, etc), a lot of you are going to try and circumvent the rules disabling you from speaking about personal illegal activities, and subtly hint that you have tried marijuana, and that it has done nothing bad to you.

Here is what I have to say to all of that. You are all full of sh**. The only drug my brother has ever used is marijuana, he was in a mental health ward for three weeks due to drug induced psychosis. A close friend of mine down in Hobart was on weed. She commited suicide while coming down, she was only twelve years old. My cousin has tried weed twice, on both times she was forced into bed for four days with fever, headaches, vomiting. There's also the slippery slope argument, where someone starts with weed, then it all goes down hill from there. You can say that's a logical fallacy, but the slippery slope can (and often does) happen.

Now it's all well and good to say that weed does nothing to you personally. But I put it to you that everyone has a different neurochemical make-up and not everyone will react the same way to the same substance. I have told other people about my experiences in the past, I've been told I was a liar. Think as you will, I'm simply putting things out there as they are, if you believe me or not, that's your choice. And if you want to smoke weed, that's fine, it's your choice.

But if you want to change the laws to allow the recreational use of marijuana, then don't expect me to agree with you. I am all for the medicinal use of marijuana under the stringent supervision of a medical practitioner, as an antidepressant or for pain relief as a replacement for morphene. But if marijuana's made legal, you may as well go and legalise every other psychoactive drug like it.

Studies have shown that marijuana exacerbates pre-existing mental illness, although a causal link between mental illness and THC has not been shown (I don't think). Studies have also shown that smoking weed is causally linked to cancer, in much the same way as cigarettes are. It's also linked to hypertension, cardiac arhythmia, infarcts, and the list goes on. There is evidence against a lot of this, but as long as there's contradictory information out there, I don't think it's a good idea to be allowing the free, unsupervised use of weed.

OP made a good point. If you're going to legalise weed, why not use the same logic for much harder drugs? It's the slippery slope again.

tl;dr I'm not posting again because I know you'll all disagree with me and call me a liar. Kthxbye.

 

[Vendetta]

Dark Sun I wholeheartedly agree

 

[Vansdad]

I'm going to assume that the rest of this thread goes along these lines as well. You're all going to argue, below this post, that marijuana is harmless, that it has countless medical benefits (antidepressant, anaesthetic, etc), a lot of you are going to try and circumvent the rules disabling you from speaking about personal illegal activities, and subtly hint that you have tried marijuana, and that it has done nothing bad to you.

Here is what I have to say to all of that. You are all full of sh**. The only drug my brother has ever used is marijuana, he was in a mental health ward for three weeks due to drug induced psychosis. A close friend of mine down in Hobart was on weed. She commited suicide while coming down, she was only twelve years old. My cousin has tried weed twice, on both times she was forced into bed for four days with fever, headaches, vomiting. There's also the slippery slope argument, where someone starts with weed, then it all goes down hill from there. You can say that's a logical fallacy, but the slippery slope can (and often does) happen.

Now it's all well and good to say that weed does nothing to you personally. But I put it to you that everyone has a different neurochemical make-up and not everyone will react the same way to the same substance. I have told other people about my experiences in the past, I've been told I was a liar. Think as you will, I'm simply putting things out there as they are, if you believe me or not, that's your choice. And if you want to smoke weed, that's fine, it's your choice.

But if you want to change the laws to allow the recreational use of marijuana, then don't expect me to agree with you. I am all for the medicinal use of marijuana under the stringent supervision of a medical practitioner, as an antidepressant or for pain relief as a replacement for morphene. But if marijuana's made legal, you may as well go and legalise every other psychoactive drug like it.

Studies have shown that marijuana exacerbates pre-existing mental illness, although a causal link between mental illness and THC has not been shown (I don't think). Studies have also shown that smoking weed is causally linked to cancer, in much the same way as cigarettes are. It's also linked to hypertension, cardiac arhythmia, infarcts, and the list goes on. There is evidence against a lot of this, but as long as there's contradictory information out there, I don't think it's a good idea to be allowing the free, unsupervised use of weed.

OP made a good point. If you're going to legalise weed, why not use the same logic for much harder drugs? It's the slippery slope again.

tl;dr I'm not posting again because I know you'll all disagree with me and call me a liar. Kthxbye.

Have you ever tried cocaine or pot? I'll just say this: If pot was legal people who use it would pay for it and most probably abide by all other laws and hold a job etc. without any other "side" effects. If cocaine or herion were legal I can be sure alot would not want to pay or be willing or able to pay. Most could not hold a job and the effects on themselves and society would still be devastating. For anyone to say I don't need to try herion to know it's bad I think you are way off because if you want to compare the best way to know is to experience and the people who would know are also those who have experienced. All others should keep their meaningless opinions to themselves.

 

[Mathematician]

My mother once in the 1970s tried this great recreational drug chemists lovingly refer to as "C12H22O11." She was instantly hooked, along with everyone else in her generation. Since then millions have died from a grocery list of heart and respiratory conditions that put cocaine to shame - all the fault of sucrose. Ban McDonalds!

A friend of mine overdosed on this other, horrible substance called "caffeine" when he thought the pills were a great supplement to his workout routine. Terrible! Terrible! How could Starbucks put this junk in their products?

My aunt had to spend three days in the hospital because she became intoxicated off of chocolate. There's a small part of the population that is neither tolerant nor allergic to the drug thujone - it literally inhibits their functions like ethyl alcohol. We need to put a shovel to Hersheys!

And speaking of alcohol? Well, don't even get me started.

 

[Mathematician]

I am certaintly against cocaine and meth usage even if we [hypothetically speaking] legalize it with monitoring. There is nothing safe about these two drugs. There is a psychiatric term addicts use called "chasing the dragon." Addicts who try a drug once and have that euphoric episode continually use the drug to achieve that same high.

As Vendetta rightly mentioned, even on a single use can be deadly. Although it is rare, the effects of cocaine usage are immediate. Do addicts need help? Sure. But I also believe that people who decide to use these drugs even for recreational purposes should also be punished to dissuade them from wanting to try the drug.

Only if you feel the same should apply to tobacco and alcohol, which are deadlier substances.

Ethyl alcohol's reputation as being "softer" than cocaine is purely historic. Alcohol has been a part of Western civilization for thousands of years. Cocaine was unnoticed by Europeans until post-colonization. Some may say that the cocaine found in the plant doesn't count, but keep in mind liquor wasn't "invented" until the Middle Ages, either.

 

[smidjit]

Proponents of the legalization of marijuana argue that "if most drugs were legalized, this would decrese crime." the problem with that line of thinking is, even if such were true you would have a problem with the medical aspect of the legalization of such drugs. For example let us look at the following drugs: Cocaine and Heroin

Physiological Effects of Cocaine

Cocaine produces its powerful high by acting on the brain. But as cocaine travels through the blood, it affects the whole body.

Cocaine is responsible for more U.S. emergency room visits than any other illegal drug. Cocaine harms the brain, heart, blood vessels, and lungs -- and can even cause sudden death. Here's what happens in the body:

• Heart. Cocaine is bad for the heart. Cocaine increases heart rate and blood pressure while constricting the arteries supplying blood to the heart. The result can be a heart attack, even in young people without heart disease. Cocaine can also trigger a deadly abnormal heart rhythm called arrhythmia, killing instantly.
• Brain. Cocaine can constrict blood vessels in the brain, causing strokes. This can happen even in young people without other risk factors for strokes. Cocaine causes seizures and can lead to bizarre or violent behavior.
• Lungs and respiratory system. Snorting cocaine damages the nose and sinuses. Regular use can cause nasal perforation. Smoking crack cocaine irritates the lungs and, in some people, causes permanent lung damage.
• Gastrointestinal tract. Cocaine constricts blood vessels supplying the gut. The resulting oxygen starvation can cause ulcers, or even perforation of the stomach or intestines.
• Kidneys. Cocaine can cause sudden, overwhelming kidney failure through a process called rhabdomyolysis. In people with high blood pressure, regular cocaine use can accelerate the long-term kidney damage caused by high blood pressure.

Source: Cocaine Use and Its Effects

Heroin use, also has its negative effects:

Heroin enters the brain, where it is converted to morphine and binds to receptors known as opioid receptors. These receptors are located in many areas of the brain (and in the body), especially those involved in the perception of pain and in reward. Opioid receptors are also located in the brain stem—important for automatic processes critical for life, such as breathing (respiration), blood pressure, and arousal. Heroin overdoses frequently involve a suppression of respiration.
After an intravenous injection of heroin, users report feeling a surge of euphoria (“rush”) accompanied by dry mouth, a warm flushing of the skin, heaviness of the extremities, and clouded mental functioning. Following this initial euphoria, the user goes “on the nod,” an alternately wakeful and drowsy state. Users who do not inject the drug may not experience the initial rush, but other effects are the same.
With regular heroin use, tolerance develops, in which the user’s physiological (and psychological) response to the drug decreases, and more heroin is needed to achieve the same intensity of effect. Heroin users are at high risk for addiction—it is estimated that about 23 percent of individuals who use heroin become dependent on it.

Source: Heroin - InfoFacts - NIDA

Aside from marijuana, why should these drugs be legalized and how would you explain the issues with medical issurance as a result to the legalization of these drugs?

Note: I mentioned medical insurance because I theorize that the legalization of these "hardcore drugs" would also increase in-patient care in hospitals due to an exponential increase in usage and abuse. To give you an idea please see the following chart:

What is the scope of cocaine use in the United States?Dependence or Abuse of Specific Substances among Past Year Users of Substances: 2002

The percentage of youths aged 12 to 17 who had ever used cocaine increased slightly from 2001 to 2002 (2.3 to 2.7 percent). Among young adults aged 18 to 25, the rate increased slightly from 14.9 percent in 2001 to 15.4 percent in 2002

I hate to break it to ya, but cocaine, and opiates are already legal. Their just DEA controlled. Your local pharmacy has cocaine, just ask Elvis. Btw, legalization wouldn't mean you could buy it on the streets. You still couldn't. Them dang feds have to control everything.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

Portugal is not the United States and there are a vast number of US Americans to abuse the drug and flood the healthcare system.

I hear this excuse all the time. "US is not *insert country name* ". That is no reason to at least learn from other countries. I think we should at least give marijuana legalization a try. Lets see how that works out. Maybe if that is successful, we can move on to others. Also, the drug war cost the tax payer $29 billion since Jan 1 2011 alone. I'd rather put that money in the healthcare system. Prisons are full of people who smoked pot. Why? because private prisons want more inmates so they can make more profit.
Also, what sort of an argument is " there are more people to abuse the drug"? As a percentage, I am sure it is the relatively the same in US and portugal.

 

[horizon_mj1]

Quite simply, H**L no! Marijuana is a plant one that does not in any way need to be altered, only consumed, in order to reap its benefits. Heroin and cocaine are both not only extremely dangerous, but extremely detrimental to your health as well. The base substance in both cocaine and heroin may be found in nature, but they must be extracted in some way thus becoming a synthetic.

 

[Otherright]

@ DarkSun: You are in bold.

I'm going to assume that the rest of this thread goes along these lines as well. You're all going to argue, below this post, that marijuana is harmless, that it has countless medical benefits (antidepressant, anaesthetic, etc), a lot of you are going to try and circumvent the rules disabling you from speaking about personal illegal activities, and subtly hint that you have tried marijuana, and that it has done nothing bad to you.

Nope. What I'm going to tell you is that while I haven't smoked since college, while I was in college, I smoked more than my fair share. I'm also going to tell you that if you go back and read it again, I never said it was completely harmless.

There's also the slippery slope argument, where someone starts with weed, then it all goes down hill from there. You can say that's a logical fallacy, but the slippery slope can (and often does) happen.

Now you are the one that is full of it. So are you saying, if I stop off at the pub for a quick beer with some co-workers, we should just go ahead an grab us a needle? Or is alcohol not a drug to you?

Since it happens often, give me the numbers on that. How many recreational marijuana users become strung-out meth heads? I want to count myself lucky, and want some numbers to back it up.


But if marijuana's made legal, you may as well go and legalise every other psychoactive drug like it.

Such as? Give me examples of what drugs you think should be legalized with it.

Studies have also shown that smoking weed is causally linked to cancer, in much the same way as cigarettes are.

Of course it is, you are inhaling it into your lungs.

OP made a good point. If you're going to legalise weed, why not use the same logic for much harder drugs? It's the slippery slope again.

You've obviously never seen the effects that can be created by drug culture. People who drink and smoke weed are a whole different lot than those who use meth or cocaine or heroin.

I'm not posting again because I know you'll all disagree with me and call me a liar.

Why, because you know you have a baseless argument and nothing to really go off, so you have to make your opinion then retreat?

 

[Mathematician]

Quite simply, H**L no! Marijuana is a plant one that does not in any way need to be altered, only consumed, in order to reap its benefits. Heroin and cocaine are both not only extremely dangerous, but extremely detrimental to your health as well. The base substance in both cocaine and heroin may be found in nature, but they must be extracted in some way thus becoming a synthetic.

Er, cocaine is just naturally occurring coke that has been chemically bonded to HCl. No one eats marijuana without first extracting the THC.

 

[Otherright]

Look you guys can argue the finer points on this stuff until you are blue in the face, but use a little reality here. If you've never been around drug culture, you don't know.

Have you ever been around a drunk, not someone who is drunk, but an addict?
Have you ever been around a heroin addict?
Have you ever been around a marijuana addict? No, you haven't. It doesn't have addictive properties.

All these people are very different. If you can equate the high and the end result of coming down on marijuana to that of cocaine or heroine, you've obviously never used either.

 

[Mathematician]

Look you guys can argue the finer points on this stuff until you are blue in the face, but use a little reality here. If you've never been around drug culture, you don't know.

Have you ever been around a drunk, not someone who is drunk, but an addict?
Have you ever been around a heroin addict?
Have you ever been around a marijuana addict? No, you haven't. It doesn't have addictive properties.

All these people are very different. If you can equate the high and the end result of coming down on marijuana to that of cocaine or heroine, you've obviously never used either.

I think the main confusion here rests on addiction and dependence.

One can be addicted to smoking weed, but only in the same way one can be addicted to playing video games, sports, watching television, or any other activity. Psychosomatic addictions are quite common; everyone here has been addicted to something.

Similarly, the World Health Organization conducted a global discovery on cocaine use and discovered that the drug does not promote dependence in a majority of users. According to the 1996 Household Survey on Drug Abuse, only 0.9% of all people who tried cocaine on a regular basis had beome regular users five years after the fact. http://www.tni.org/archives/drugscoca-docs/coca.htm

A lot of the opinions expressed in this thread just go to show that the War on Drugs has only led to misinformation.

If someone has an addictive personality, it's not just drugs that are ruining this person's life. I've lived with a heroin addict and have been robbed by a meth addict. I've also been around people who tried each drug a few times, had fun, and gave them up pretty easily. In my experience it almost always boils down to whether you have self-control or not.

 

[DarkSun]

A lot of the opinions expressed in this thread just go to show that the War on Drugs has only led to misinformation.

Why, because you know you have a baseless argument and nothing to really go off, so you have to make your opinion then retreat?

Cannabis psychosis

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-discussion/114839-what-person-even-saying.html

 

[Mathematician]

Cannabis psychosis

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-discussion/114839-what-person-even-saying.html

You do realize that after a short duration of time no psychedelic like psilocybin or LSD will show up in blood, right? Acid has a half-life of five hours in plasma.

Regardless of the fact it could have very well been laced, people arrive at psychosis through caffeine and chocolate each day. You have essentially admitted that you want to do irreparable legal and social damage to users of weed after a family member tried the drug while it was already illegal. Meaning that people who do suffer from psychosis are LESS likely to get help as their friends and even the users are fearful of the legal repercussions incurred onto them by going to the hospital.

 

[Acim]

My mother once in the 1970s tried this great recreational drug chemists lovingly refer to as "C12H22O11." She was instantly hooked, along with everyone else in her generation. Since then millions have died from a grocery list of heart and respiratory conditions that put cocaine to shame - all the fault of sucrose. Ban McDonalds!

A friend of mine overdosed on this other, horrible substance called "caffeine" when he thought the pills were a great supplement to his workout routine. Terrible! Terrible! How could Starbucks put this junk in their products?

My aunt had to spend three days in the hospital because she became intoxicated off of chocolate. There's a small part of the population that is neither tolerant nor allergic to the drug thujone - it literally inhibits their functions like ethyl alcohol. We need to put a shovel to Hersheys!

And speaking of alcohol? Well, don't even get me started.

Well that does it for me. If at least one person has had any issue at all with these substances, I can't think of any reason why these would still be legal.

And more to the point, can anyone reading this provide health benefits of caffeine and chocolate when one over consumes them?

I'm sorry, but even for medical reasons, I have tough time with substances being made available only with medical professionals handling distribution. Mostly because doctors can easily over prescribe substances, and at least occasionally do (I know of at least 2 people personally where this is the case). And prescription drugs are I feel notorious for being swayed by big business politics, with numerous drugs being recalled due to danger that isn't realized immediately when on the market. Even if realized in a few dozen cases, big business drugs can stay legal / available, for reasons that have I would say next to nothing to do with their effectiveness.

While this may be fuel for those against legalizing coke and smack, I would just hope those persons are consistent. Me, I use hardly any drug (includes caffeine and no prescription drugs). I think they are all fairly dangerous with exception of a very limited few, and even those limited few have effects that with over consumption become dangerous.

I think the war on drugs though is idiotic. Enough so that when good people die as result of the war, I can no longer be sympathetic in their demise. If you've missed my message on this thread, I think education is the way to go, and is long term strategy to getting humanity off of all drugs. All of them. I'll repeat that 10 times if you are missing my message. All of them. Until then, I feel very strongly that making them legal is step 1, otherwise, we live in a world where not only usage is a problem, but education is as well, since we are currently very dishonest about these substances. Step 2 is doing what Portugal did and treating full blown addicts as people in need of help, rather than people needing to be locked away. Step 3 is education, and is something to be measured over the long haul. If looking for a quick fix solution to drug abuse, education is not the answer. Of all the options I am currently aware of, I cannot think of anything that is the answer to hardcore drug abuse, if looking to end it in say less than 1 year. I do think treatment comes closest while again, it is not the end all be all for resolving the epidemic.

 

[no-body]

I'm going to assume that the rest of this thread goes along these lines as well. You're all going to argue, below this post, that marijuana is harmless, that it has countless medical benefits (antidepressant, anaesthetic, etc), a lot of you are going to try and circumvent the rules disabling you from speaking about personal illegal activities, and subtly hint that you have tried marijuana, and that it has done nothing bad to you.

Here is what I have to say to all of that. You are all full of sh**. The only drug my brother has ever used is marijuana, he was in a mental health ward for three weeks due to drug induced psychosis. A close friend of mine down in Hobart was on weed. She commited suicide while coming down, she was only twelve years old. My cousin has tried weed twice, on both times she was forced into bed for four days with fever, headaches, vomiting. There's also the slippery slope argument, where someone starts with weed, then it all goes down hill from there. You can say that's a logical fallacy, but the slippery slope can (and often does) happen.

Now it's all well and good to say that weed does nothing to you personally. But I put it to you that everyone has a different neurochemical make-up and not everyone will react the same way to the same substance. I have told other people about my experiences in the past, I've been told I was a liar. Think as you will, I'm simply putting things out there as they are, if you believe me or not, that's your choice. And if you want to smoke weed, that's fine, it's your choice.

Sounds like you want to blame the drug rather than the people. Did you ever think the people you knew who had a bad time with weed where attracted to it because they're lives where screwed up and not the other way around?

Also "coming down" from weed? You're joking, right?

 

[horizon_mj1]

I have studied the "slippery slope" through the eyes of Law Enforcement (student); everyone likes to think that Marijuana is "the gateway drug", no :sorry1: its alcohol. I am speaking also from experience; after being involved in an automobile accident that left me with severe migraine headaches (at least 4 a week, some last for more than a day) my husband and I took a trip to Amsterdam. Yes I visited a Coffee Shop or two, and guess what I did not have a migraine the entire trip. I do not believe in breaking the law, but nor do I think the law is always right. Being that there are other ways to ingest Marijuana that are not detrimental to your health (any way aside from smoking it) why are addictive drugs being used as treatments? I have studied some laws in which nations do allow harder drugs and yes crime rates are lower for the most part, but lets get real, we live in a country where too much is not enough, don't you think in the end legalizing harder more addictive drugs may increase the number of people who become dependent as well as having a sever impact on our Health Care System (an impact that is not needed, there are enough flaws as it is). Another fact that people constantly negate is that alcohol is a drug that if the dependency is severe enough, quitting cold turkey will kill you, other drugs can not make this claim (if a death ensues from stopping other addictions, it is usually not the drug leaving the system, it is the shock on the system itself).

 

[DarkSun]

You do realize that after a short duration of time no psychedelic like psilocybin or LSD will show up in blood, right? Acid has a half-life of five hours in plasma.

He was admitted within a day.

Regardless of the fact it could have very well been laced,

It could have been. But no one else experienced what he did. I guess his friends could have pulled one over on him.

people arrive at psychosis through caffeine and chocolate each day. You have essentially admitted that you want to do irreparable legal and social damage to users of weed after a family member tried the drug while it was already illegal. Meaning that people who do suffer from psychosis are LESS likely to get help as their friends and even the users are fearful of the legal repercussions incurred onto them by going to the hospital.

I must have missed the part where I said I wanted people in jail instead of rehab. Could you please quote me there?

Sounds like you want to blame the drug rather than the people.

Not true. I blame both.

Did you ever think the people you knew who had a bad time with weed where attracted to it because they're lives where screwed up and not the other way around?

I'm no cynic, but if you got a biography done on all 6.7 billion people on this planet, I somehow doubt any of them would have had a perfect life. Plus, 25% percent of the US population will suffer from mental illness sometime in their life, if THC exacerbates pre-existing mental illness, then the long term effects of recreational use/abuse could be bad.

Also "coming down" from weed? You're joking, right?

"Coming down" from caffeine? You're joking, right?
Erowid Cannabis (Marijuana) Vault : Effects