Should Gnostics assimilate, or strike out on their own?

[ELoWolfe]

Ancient Gnostics met in communities, like other members of the early church. We are told that some groups, such as the Valentinians, would join in a communal worship but then later hold "private meetings" among themselves. These meetings were church meetings, only they were with the pneumatic Valentinian teachings, as opposed to the psychic, ordinary teachings.

Our religious and spiritual journeys are different now. We know more; we experience more; we have quicker methods of communicating ideas. More people are literate, can understand and can act. Our philosophies have changed, as has our politics.

So as the future continues on, should those who study and may have gnosis mingle with those who do not in worship? Or have we reached a point that gnostics are able to have their own communities of worship? If not now, because of limitations of physical locations to provide for it, what of the future as Gnosticism expands and ideas continue to influence others?\\

What are your thoughts?

 

[nazz]

Ancient Gnostics met in communities, like other members of the early church. We are told that some groups, such as the Valentinians, would join in a communal worship but then later hold "private meetings" among themselves. These meetings were church meetings, only they were with the pneumatic Valentinian teachings, as opposed to the psychic, ordinary teachings.

Our religious and spiritual journeys are different now. We know more; we experience more; we have quicker methods of communicating ideas. More people are literate, can understand and can act. Our philosophies have changed, as has our politics.

So as the future continues on, should those who study and may have gnosis mingle with those who do not in worship?

Why not? Presently I am attending an Anglo-Catholic Episcopal church and am enjoying doing so. The priest is really cool, liberal and open-minded. I do have difficulty with some of the liturgy but it's okay. I even had a long discussion with the priest after the Mass and expressed a little of my heterodoxy and he was down with it.

I am a Gnostic Christian which means my Christianity is modified by my Gnosticism but at heart I am a Christian first and feel part of the larger Body of Christ that includes psychic believers as well. Everybody is where they are at and I don't think people have to "convert" to the Gnostic view if they are happy where they're at. It is just for those who need it and are ready for it. I can even fellowship with really conservative Christians. I just have to watch what I say.

Or have we reached a point that gnostics are able to have their own communities of worship?

Well many do but we are so few and far between. If you want to be part of a gnostic church you more or less have to move where there is one.

If not now, because of limitations of physical locations to provide for it, what of the future as Gnosticism expands and ideas continue to influence others?\\

What are your thoughts?

I guess we will have to see.

 

[ELoWolfe]

I am confirmed Episcopalian, but after having my "Re-awakening," I don't know if it would be a good fit. I know if I stay, I will hope to eventually join the Priesthood, but it would be heresy.

That may be some of my own, personal, reservation. I do identify first as a Christian, but the earthly Church has identified itself clearly anti-Gnostic. While I could argue that in the original Church there were less distinctions, so one could be a gnostic Christian in a larger setting, it isn't the case now. According to them, we're heretics. According to us, they're misinformed. It isn't us who left, but them who have pushed us out.

Then there is the U.U. But personally, I don't feel very comfortable with them. But that is just me.

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

Ancient Gnostics met in communities, like other members of the early church. We are told that some groups, such as the Valentinians, would join in a communal worship but then later hold "private meetings" among themselves. These meetings were church meetings, only they were with the pneumatic Valentinian teachings, as opposed to the psychic, ordinary teachings.

Our religious and spiritual journeys are different now. We know more; we experience more; we have quicker methods of communicating ideas. More people are literate, can understand and can act. Our philosophies have changed, as has our politics.

So as the future continues on, should those who study and may have gnosis mingle with those who do not in worship? Or have we reached a point that gnostics are able to have their own communities of worship? If not now, because of limitations of physical locations to provide for it, what of the future as Gnosticism expands and ideas continue to influence others?\\

What are your thoughts?

I don't mind worshipping with anyone of any religion because it brings me together with others, which is always of the unity and truth. That being said, I'd love some meeting of gnostics in the modern. I can see an exchange of ideas at the very least. I think there needs to be some structure for the meeting and for that I'd be more than content to look to the early century Christian gnostics. Communion can be the symbol of our commonality. One body- one bread and cup as a way of directing the mind toward the divine. I think anyone could lead such a group really. We don't need clerics. Let the group choose a meeting leader simply to lead on the community's behalf.

 

[TheInfiniteLight]

Ancient Gnostics met in communities, like other members of the early church. We are told that some groups, such as the Valentinians, would join in a communal worship but then later hold "private meetings" among themselves. These meetings were church meetings, only they were with the pneumatic Valentinian teachings, as opposed to the psychic, ordinary teachings.

Our religious and spiritual journeys are different now. We know more; we experience more; we have quicker methods of communicating ideas. More people are literate, can understand and can act. Our philosophies have changed, as has our politics.

So as the future continues on, should those who study and may have gnosis mingle with those who do not in worship? Or have we reached a point that gnostics are able to have their own communities of worship? If not now, because of limitations of physical locations to provide for it, what of the future as Gnosticism expands and ideas continue to influence others?\\

What are your thoughts?

The living one is not in a community. The living one appeared in the light first and alone. Jesus says, whoever lives through the living one shall not taste death. To live through the living one, I become the living one. I stand from the beginning all alone. Jesus says, whoever stands at the beginning shall know the end. The living one is not brought into a community. The truth is the truth because he existed from the beginning as the truth, as a single one. So are the children of the light, alone and chosen.

 

[ELoWolfe]

Jesus said, "Where there are three divine beings they are divine. Where there are two or one, I myself dwell with that person."

The disciples said to Jesus, "We are aware that you will depart from us. Who will be our leader?" Jesus said to him, "No matter where you come it is to James the Just that you shall go, for whose sake heaven and earth have come to exist."

Jesus said, "Love your sibling like your own soul; look out for that person like the apple of you eye."

Jesus said, "If two make peace with one another within a single house they will say to a mountain 'go elsewhere' and it will go elsewhere."

Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

The disciples said to him, "Your brothers and your mother are standing outside." He said to them, "It is those who are here and who do the will of my father that are my siblings and my mother. It is they who will enter the kingdom of my father."

 

[TheInfiniteLight]

Jesus said, "Where there are three divine beings they are divine. Where there are two or one, I myself dwell with that person."

The disciples said to Jesus, "We are aware that you will depart from us. Who will be our leader?" Jesus said to him, "No matter where you come it is to James the Just that you shall go, for whose sake heaven and earth have come to exist."

Jesus said, "Love your sibling like your own soul; look out for that person like the apple of you eye."

Jesus said, "If two make peace with one another within a single house they will say to a mountain 'go elsewhere' and it will go elsewhere."

Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

The disciples said to him, "Your brothers and your mother are standing outside." He said to them, "It is those who are here and who do the will of my father that are my siblings and my mother. It is they who will enter the kingdom of my father."

The universe is a little bit bigger than James the Just. Before anything existed there was the light and its source, the truth. The truth was the first one to appear in the light as he manifested his body. The truth is the revealer and the revealer is god. The first and the last. The first to appear within the light and the last to be known. From the light, all creation was taken. And born were the deities and their dominions. You think that there is only heaven earth and hell. That's not true--that is merely the dominion of the triune god. But time existed infinitely, and from the light infinitely creation was taken. Think of a place that does not exist. No such place exists. You have infinite planes of existence being taken from the light as creation. The infinitesimal light called the place of truth is so much more infinite than creation, of which is nearly infinite itself because there is no beginning or end. Time goes infinitely forward and infinitely backwards. Do you think creation started with heaven and earth and hell. You're wrong. Heaven earth and hell are just the continuation of the creative process. Creation is still being taken out of the light forever. Creation is returning to the light forever.

You speak of the trinity. However, Jesus says, whoever comes to know the Father and the Mother will be called a child of a whore.

 

[ELoWolfe]

With a wave of your hand, you pick one point of scripture, criticize it to death (by making it a strawman), then quote from the same book about something that means nothing to the conversation.

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

With a wave of your hand, you pick one point of scripture, criticize it to death (by making it a strawman), then quote from the same book about something that means nothing to the conversation.

That's typical of all the abrahamic sects. The abrahamic religons (jew, christian, muslim) have used verses in the same books to both condone and condemn such things as brutality, rape, slavery, subjugation, genocide, etc. Their books are so full of contradictions, errors and fallacies that it's easy to make up your own "interpretation" of what they mean. Which is why you have all of them worshiping the exact same father god of Abraham, but they hate each other. They even have versions of the same thing believed differently hating each other within those main groups. Like the hasidics vs the orthodox jews. The catholics vs the protestants (among others). The shiites vs the sunnis. And all of them against each other.

They're only the religion of "peace, love and forgiveness" to their own clique versions. To everyone else they're the religion of "conflict, intolerance and censure".

 

[frangipani]

I find this discussion interesting in that it seems some people have forgotten already who and what they are. True Christianity is not a debate or argument over sects and factions. The fundamentals are the Demiurge made us, he breathed Life into us, something he inherited from his Mother, but because She created him in error (without the fullness of the Father) what he breathed into us, our soul was incomplete. Realising the error of her ways his Mother came here with the consort of the Father and gave us the balance (Spirit). The Soul belongs to the demiurge, and as some think may well be reincarnated by him. The Spirit belongs to the Ineffable Spirit and is redeemable to Him. Christ came here in the man Jesus to teach us, show us that we must find this Spirit within us and learn from it and grow in it, so that our soul and spirit become united as one and the whole being is redeemed to the Father. This is a one way trip for a Christian, it is this knowledge applied and becoming us that redeems us, no more (if it is true) reincarnation, no more confusion. The Truth is the Truth and it is personal. I don't see anything wrong with like-minded-people coming together to worship, but it is not a requirement and arguing the point of this church and that hardly helps.

 

[TheInfiniteLight]

With a wave of your hand, you pick one point of scripture, criticize it to death (by making it a strawman), then quote from the same book about something that means nothing to the conversation.

Scripture shouldn't be criticized? I should just accept scripture as a blind man. Believe in talking snakes and floods and the like; and even magical bread. You're not a Christian gnostic. You're a Catholic masquerading as a gnostic. You just want people to join your church--that is all you speak about. There is no church in Gnosticism. Gnosticism is at the fringes of religion. Being at the fringes gnostics are labeled heretics and defiers of organized religion. Do you think any of Gnosticism is accepted by the catholic faith? You come into this gnostic forum to convert people to Catholicism. Jesus is not god. He is a human being. Any gnostic would know that. But you're like O our savior! I know you're a Catholic masquerading as a gnostic.

 

[TheInfiniteLight]

That's typical of all the abrahamic sects. The abrahamic religons (jew, christian, muslim) have used verses in the same books to both condone and condemn such things as brutality, rape, slavery, subjugation, genocide, etc. Their books are so full of contradictions, errors and fallacies that it's easy to make up your own "interpretation" of what they mean. Which is why you have all of them worshiping the exact same father god of Abraham, but they hate each other. They even have versions of the same thing believed differently hating each other within those main groups. Like the hasidics vs the orthodox jews. The catholics vs the protestants (among others). The shiites vs the sunnis. And all of them against each other.

They're only the religion of "peace, love and forgiveness" to their own clique versions. To everyone else they're the religion of "conflict, intolerance and censure".

You should expect that from a Catholic masquerading as a gnostic. He tells us that we must eat bread and drink wine to inherit eternal life. He's trying to evangelize this gnostic forum.

 

[TheInfiniteLight]

I find this discussion interesting in that it seems some people have forgotten already who and what they are. True Christianity is not a debate or argument over sects and factions. The fundamentals are the Demiurge made us, he breathed Life into us, something he inherited from his Mother, but because She created him in error (without the fullness of the Father) what he breathed into us, our soul was incomplete. Realising the error of her ways his Mother came here with the consort of the Father and gave us the balance (Spirit). The Soul belongs to the demiurge, and as some think may well be reincarnated by him. The Spirit belongs to the Ineffable Spirit and is redeemable to Him. Christ came here in the man Jesus to teach us, show us that we must find this Spirit within us and learn from it and grow in it, so that our soul and spirit become united as one and the whole being is redeemed to the Father. This is a one way trip for a Christian, it is this knowledge applied and becoming us that redeems us, no more (if it is true) reincarnation, no more confusion. The Truth is the Truth and it is personal. I don't see anything wrong with like-minded-people coming together to worship, but it is not a requirement and arguing the point of this church and that hardly helps.

Gnostics should come together without religion. They should only help each other to seek the life within.

 

[frangipani]

Gnostics should come together without religion. They should only help each other to seek the life within.

I agree with you to a point, that being once Truth is turned into a religion it becomes a system of rules, rituals and regulation meaning observed from the outside and taken in. Truth however is found on the inside and projected out. This makes it a personal and individual transformation. It is this inner spiritual transformation that is evident in the lives of the true Christian in the sensory world. This example of Christian behaviour within us projecting out in our daily lives is what we hope will inspire others to seek Truth for themselves. So, while those likeminded in Truth ought to support each other on their journey through this life, they also support and inspire others through their example, this we hope helps the wanderer and lost soul to begin seeking what it is they have not yet found.

 

[ELoWolfe]

Scripture shouldn't be criticized? I should just accept scripture as a blind man. Believe in talking snakes and floods and the like; and even magical bread. You're not a Christian gnostic. You're a Catholic masquerading as a gnostic. You just want people to join your church--that is all you speak about. There is no church in Gnosticism. Gnosticism is at the fringes of religion. Being at the fringes gnostics are labeled heretics and defiers of organized religion. Do you think any of Gnosticism is accepted by the catholic faith? You come into this gnostic forum to convert people to Catholicism. Jesus is not god. He is a human being. Any gnostic would know that. But you're like O our savior! I know you're a Catholic masquerading as a gnostic.

I don't have a Church so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Like, seriously. Do you know your history? Do you know early Gnosticism? Do you know Valentinus and Marcion? Do you know of the Bogomils, Paulicians and Cathars? Have you read anything from any of these groups, or even the Sethians? How about Mani?

Or did you just look at the Nag Hammadi library, throw away the more fringe and "harder-to-read" books, grasp onto the Gospel of Thomas for dear life, and read a few books from people like Samael Aun Weor, Sylvia Brown, Crowley and the Golden Dawn? Or better yet, books influenced (but not accredited) by these people?

If that is where your gnosis comes from, then fine - go and do you. But my gnosis comes from the former, not the latter.