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Should LGBT be made a federally-protected class of people?

Jonathan Bailey

Well-Known Member
I recently wrote to my federal elected officials including President Trump favoring this action. Sen. Lankford (R) of Oklahoma responded to me with this message:


Dear Mr. Jonathan Bailey,


Thank you for contacting me about S. 788, the Equality Act. I appreciate your engagement in this important issue.

As you may know, S. 788 was reintroduced by Senator Jeff Merkley (OR) on March 13, 2019. The bill amends long-standing civil rights law to establish penalties for discrimination on the basis of actual or perceived sexual orientation and gender identity in public accommodations and facilities, education, employment, housing, credit, juries and any entity that receives federal funding. The bill currently awaits further action in the U.S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary.

No one should be discriminated against for any reason. I believe each person is created in the image of God and has value and worth; every person deserves respect. All people should be treated with dignity and have their constitutional rights, including the right to freely exercise their first Amendment freedoms, protected. Unfortunately, this legislation may not end discrimination. Instead, it may transfer discrimination to other individuals, including women, parents, children, medical professionals, people of faith, business owners, and nonprofits.

Because the bill redefines current civil rights law, including Title IV, legal protections for women would be eroded. Biological males would be allowed to compete against women in sports, which could diminish opportunities for achievement that often lead to scholarship or career opportunities. Private spaces such as bathrooms, locker rooms, and housing, including battered women's shelters, would be opened to biological males, putting some women's sense of safety and security at risk. In states that have similar laws to the Equality Act, we have seen examples where women have been disadvantaged, threatened or harmed by men who took advantage of poorly constructed laws.

Additionally, the Equality Act could diminish rights for parents whose young children experience gender dysphoria. This includes denying access for parents to receive accurate medical information on the side-effects and harms of gender transition treatments, such as cross-sex hormones and sex reassignment surgery and puberty blockers for their children. In some instances parents have already lost custody of their children for pushing back against these laws in states.

Similarly, the bill forces medical professionals, including counselors and doctors to violate their consciences, and sometimes their better medical judgement, when it comes to affirmation of gender dysphoria and prescriptions for cross-sex hormones, puberty blockers and the performance of sex reassignment surgery.

The effects of the Equality Act translate to people and institutions of faith as well, without any right of conscience. The Equality Act would be the first bill ever to exempt the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), a critical federal civil rights law. RFRA states that the government shall not substantially burden a person's exercise of religion unless the government demonstrates that the burden exists to further a compelling governmental interest and is the least restrictive means of furthering that government interest. It is unnecessary to exempt RFRA because RFRA itself implements a balancing test, which allows the government to override a religious claim when there is a compelling government interest. The only reason anyone would bar RFRA from applying to legislation is to allow the government to override and infringe on religion when it does not have a compelling reason to do so.

The Equality Act also has a problem in the text related to the phrase "perceived sexual orientation or gender identity." If an employer chooses not to hire a person after an interview, this language allows anyone to sue the employer for discrimination based on a belief that the employer "perceived" something about their sexual orientation or gender identity. This puts every employer in the difficult position of trying to prove that they did not make a decision about hiring, firing, raises or bonuses on their thoughts or perceptions about someone's sexual orientation or gender identity. Employment decisions should be related to person's quality and quantity of work, but the Equality Act creates a special protection and unique challenge for every workplace regarding any "perception or belief, even if inaccurate."

The freedom to agree or disagree is part of what makes America strong. The federal government should not force us all to think, act or believe the same way, including about our beliefs on gender and marriage. A nation that allows diverse opinions to flourish is a truly free nation.

Whether or not we agree on this issue, I hope we can solve other issues together where we have common ground. I remain committed to help our nation in every way we can. Please feel free to contact me again via email at www.lankford.senate.gov for more information about my work in the United States Senate for all of us.


In God We Trust,
mail


James Lankford
United States Senator




I replied as follows:


Dear Senator Lankford:

Thank you for your reply.

The federal Civil Rights Act of 1964 already protects certain classes of people from discrimination in employment, etc.

Though religion is protected under the 1st Amendment and the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it does not permit people and entities of faith to discriminate on the basis of sex, race, national origin, etc. though their religious principles may not permit a certain race, for example, to be employed in a certain position. Some people might feel by their religious faith and clear conscience that it is permissible to kill a person because they perceive the person as evil or supposedly God commanded the person to commit the deed. The criminal law system in America doesn't permit murder on religious principles even. I don't believe "the devil made me do it" or "God told me to do it" holds up in any court of law within the United States of America.

Therefore a person should also not be discriminated by prospective employers based upon the sex of the person he or she loves. People are naturally born with the predisposition to be attracted to a person of the opposite sex, same sex, both sexes or attracted to neither sex. Biological males who present themselves as females, vice-versa, may also be naturally born with such predisposition to do such. We don't discriminate on the basis of race or sex because those are characteristics of a person's biological natural birth. Babies are not conceived and born with the choice or free will to be a boy or a girl, Mexican, German, baptized as a Catholic in infancy, white, black, etc. The same goes for sexual orientation and gender expression and identity.

Yes, people might (correctly or incorrectly) perceive somebody as homosexual, heterosexual, transgender, etc. just as we might (correctly or incorrectly) perceive a person to be male or female, black, Asian, Hispanic, disabled, white, etc. There is no black and white in terms of perception. Perception is not always reality.
The United States Supreme Court, to my understanding, has already forced, by one or more rulings, the several states to recognize same-sex marriage and I do applaud that decision. Many states now recognize marijuana as legal for at least medicinal purposes though I believe federal law still prohibits marijuana use and possession. The federal government has passed much legislation over the past against the will of one or more several states. Some Southern states were opposed to integration and provisions under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, historically speaking.

Sincerely,
Jonathan Bailey
Comanche County Registered Voter
"I always remember on November!"
 

Jonathan Bailey

Well-Known Member
PS - I saw two army personnel in uniform today at the Walmart in Lawton, OK adjacent to the Fort Sill army installation. One (a sergeant) was clearly perceived by me to be a young woman with longer hair while the other (a private) definitely had a woman's voice though a buzz haircut as short as those typical on male soldiers. It seems as transgender is progressively coming in to our military these days. They don't seem to mind if females shave their heads. I still doubt if they will ever allow male personnel to have hippie long hair or males to have longer hairstyles as they still allow on females or for male soldiers to wear a dress uniform with a blouse, purse, pumps and a skirt.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
They should just be people like other people.
I agree . Protecting one class of people over another, that's a recipe for disaster.

And besides just a sheer thought of classifying groups of people into this demographic and that demographic. Pointing out and reinforcing differences. I would take it comes across as a bit unsettling.
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Not if it is going to interfere with the rights and protection of others like women and the Equality Act is just going to do that interfere with the rights of women.
 

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
@Jonathan Bailey , You wrote to Senator Lankford. Are you nuts?

(a) Lankford was (1) born in Texas, (2) attended the University of Texas; (3) attended The Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, and (4) James Lankford - Wikipedia

LGBT issues
Lankford has largely opposed legislation promoting LGBT rights. He believes marriage is between a man and a woman and opposes same-sex marriage. In the early days of his 2010 campaign for the House of Representatives, Lankford disparaged the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which expanded hate crime legislation to include greater penalties for hate crimes motivated by the victim's sexual orientation or race.[14]

Lankford supported Oklahoma Question 711, a statewide constitutional ban on same-sex marriage and civil unions that passed in 2004 with 75% of the vote and remained law until it was challenged in court and struck down by a federal judge as unconstitutional in 2014. Lankford lambasted the decision, saying that "marriage is a state issue and Oklahoma has spoken."[15] He also endorsed the Defense of Marriage Act and condemned the 2013 Supreme Court decision striking down parts of the law.

Lankford has defended businesses and individuals opposing LGBT rights, including Chick-fil-A in the wake of its denunciation over donations to groups opposing same-sex marriage, and Phil Robertson after he was suspended from Duck Dynasty in 2013 following comments regarded as anti-LGBT and racist. Lankford attacked A&E for suspending Robertson, writing that Robertson "should be able to speak his views without fear of being silenced."[16]

In 2012, five days after President Barack Obama announced his support for same-sex marriage, the first sitting U.S. president to do so, Lankford told a ThinkProgress interviewer that he believed homosexuality is a choice and that employers should be allowed to terminate workers for their sexual orientation: "I think it's a choice issue." After LGBT advocates condemned his statements, Lankford defended himself on local television, reiterating that homosexuality is a choice.[17][18][19]

After the Southern Poverty Law Center designated the Alliance Defending Freedom an anti-LGBT hate group, Lankford criticized the designation and defended the ADF, which had described same-sex marriage as a threat to "healthy, free and stable society."[20][21]

The Human Rights Campaign, the largest organization advocating for LGBT rights in the United States, included Lankford in its 2016 "Congressional Hall of Shame" along with Senators Mike Lee and Ted Cruz.[22]


==============================
Okay, ... so you wrote the redneck peckerwood a letter. BFD, not a word you wrote made a difference. You might as well have pissed against the wind.

Here, ... read this and consider moving: These Are The 10 Gayest Places In Oklahoma
 

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Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
I recently wrote to my federal elected officials including President Trump favoring this action. Sen. Lankford (R) of Oklahoma responded to me with this message:


Dear Mr. Jonathan Bailey,


Thank you for contacting me about S. 788, the Equality Act. I appreciate your engagement in this important issue.

As you may know, S. 788 was reintroduced by Senator Jeff Merkley (OR) on March 13, 2019. The bill amends long-standing civil rights law to establish penalties for discrimination on the basis of actual or perceived sexual orientation and gender identity in public accommodations and facilities, education, employment, housing, credit, juries and any entity that receives federal funding. The bill currently awaits further action in the U.S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary.

No one should be discriminated against for any reason. I believe each person is created in the image of God and has value and worth; every person deserves respect. All people should be treated with dignity and have their constitutional rights, including the right to freely exercise their first Amendment freedoms, protected. Unfortunately, this legislation may not end discrimination. Instead, it may transfer discrimination to other individuals, including women, parents, children, medical professionals, people of faith, business owners, and nonprofits.

Because the bill redefines current civil rights law, including Title IV, legal protections for women would be eroded. Biological males would be allowed to compete against women in sports, which could diminish opportunities for achievement that often lead to scholarship or career opportunities. Private spaces such as bathrooms, locker rooms, and housing, including battered women's shelters, would be opened to biological males, putting some women's sense of safety and security at risk. In states that have similar laws to the Equality Act, we have seen examples where women have been disadvantaged, threatened or harmed by men who took advantage of poorly constructed laws.

Additionally, the Equality Act could diminish rights for parents whose young children experience gender dysphoria. This includes denying access for parents to receive accurate medical information on the side-effects and harms of gender transition treatments, such as cross-sex hormones and sex reassignment surgery and puberty blockers for their children. In some instances parents have already lost custody of their children for pushing back against these laws in states.

Similarly, the bill forces medical professionals, including counselors and doctors to violate their consciences, and sometimes their better medical judgement, when it comes to affirmation of gender dysphoria and prescriptions for cross-sex hormones, puberty blockers and the performance of sex reassignment surgery.

The effects of the Equality Act translate to people and institutions of faith as well, without any right of conscience. The Equality Act would be the first bill ever to exempt the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), a critical federal civil rights law. RFRA states that the government shall not substantially burden a person's exercise of religion unless the government demonstrates that the burden exists to further a compelling governmental interest and is the least restrictive means of furthering that government interest. It is unnecessary to exempt RFRA because RFRA itself implements a balancing test, which allows the government to override a religious claim when there is a compelling government interest. The only reason anyone would bar RFRA from applying to legislation is to allow the government to override and infringe on religion when it does not have a compelling reason to do so.

The Equality Act also has a problem in the text related to the phrase "perceived sexual orientation or gender identity." If an employer chooses not to hire a person after an interview, this language allows anyone to sue the employer for discrimination based on a belief that the employer "perceived" something about their sexual orientation or gender identity. This puts every employer in the difficult position of trying to prove that they did not make a decision about hiring, firing, raises or bonuses on their thoughts or perceptions about someone's sexual orientation or gender identity. Employment decisions should be related to person's quality and quantity of work, but the Equality Act creates a special protection and unique challenge for every workplace regarding any "perception or belief, even if inaccurate."

The freedom to agree or disagree is part of what makes America strong. The federal government should not force us all to think, act or believe the same way, including about our beliefs on gender and marriage. A nation that allows diverse opinions to flourish is a truly free nation.

Whether or not we agree on this issue, I hope we can solve other issues together where we have common ground. I remain committed to help our nation in every way we can. Please feel free to contact me again via email at www.lankford.senate.gov for more information about my work in the United States Senate for all of us.


In God We Trust,
mail


James Lankford
United States Senator




I replied as follows:


Dear Senator Lankford:

Thank you for your reply.

The federal Civil Rights Act of 1964 already protects certain classes of people from discrimination in employment, etc.

Though religion is protected under the 1st Amendment and the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it does not permit people and entities of faith to discriminate on the basis of sex, race, national origin, etc. though their religious principles may not permit a certain race, for example, to be employed in a certain position. Some people might feel by their religious faith and clear conscience that it is permissible to kill a person because they perceive the person as evil or supposedly God commanded the person to commit the deed. The criminal law system in America doesn't permit murder on religious principles even. I don't believe "the devil made me do it" or "God told me to do it" holds up in any court of law within the United States of America.

Therefore a person should also not be discriminated by prospective employers based upon the sex of the person he or she loves. People are naturally born with the predisposition to be attracted to a person of the opposite sex, same sex, both sexes or attracted to neither sex. Biological males who present themselves as females, vice-versa, may also be naturally born with such predisposition to do such. We don't discriminate on the basis of race or sex because those are characteristics of a person's biological natural birth. Babies are not conceived and born with the choice or free will to be a boy or a girl, Mexican, German, baptized as a Catholic in infancy, white, black, etc. The same goes for sexual orientation and gender expression and identity.

Yes, people might (correctly or incorrectly) perceive somebody as homosexual, heterosexual, transgender, etc. just as we might (correctly or incorrectly) perceive a person to be male or female, black, Asian, Hispanic, disabled, white, etc. There is no black and white in terms of perception. Perception is not always reality.
The United States Supreme Court, to my understanding, has already forced, by one or more rulings, the several states to recognize same-sex marriage and I do applaud that decision. Many states now recognize marijuana as legal for at least medicinal purposes though I believe federal law still prohibits marijuana use and possession. The federal government has passed much legislation over the past against the will of one or more several states. Some Southern states were opposed to integration and provisions under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, historically speaking.

Sincerely,
Jonathan Bailey
Comanche County Registered Voter
"I always remember on November!"

I am not going to read that whole blessed thing. There should now be laws on the books that protect LGBT and others. Trump is probably trying to please the religious nutters by removing said protections. The American Family Association, and others are likely rubbing their filthy hands together and using their beady little eyes to read their unGodly demands, that come straight from the pit of HELL. If you truly uphold all your high religious principles, you will know that judgement and punishment is done by God, not the high minded pricks. I do not comment on the morality of the LGBT because to do so is trying to usurp the power of God almighty. I'm so angry now that I am going to go try to find some Cockroaches to smash !!!
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
better topic.....as noted in the op....

all men are created equal.....

oooops

looks like we got off on the wrong notion 200yrs ago
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
They should just be people like other people.
That's the ideal but we have braindead trogs here who wish to discriminate against LGBT people in the areas of housing, employment, healthcare, etc. and they need to be stopped by law from doing that since they're not able to be decent human beings on their own.

So I do think federal protections are needed, especially for trans people, who are treated the worst out of them all (black trans women especially, who have it the worst).
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
That's the ideal but we have braindead trogs here who wish to discriminate against LGBT people in the areas of housing, employment, healthcare, etc. and they need to be stopped by law from doing that since they're not able to be decent human beings on their own.

So I do think federal protections are needed, especially for trans people, who are treated the worst out of them all (black trans women especially, who have it the worst).
How about just simply taking your business and money elsewhere? To force my money into the pocket of a person who doesn't want my money seems counterproductive to me. If a baker doesn't want to bake you a cake, go to one who does.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
To add fuel to the fire, envision yourself being a member of a "shunned" class. Imagine what it would be like to be heterosexual and religions said that you had to desire both genders and very strongly. Then some numno says that being heterosexual is a choice and you could just as easily sleep with and strongly wished to sleep with both.

As for me, I do not desire to sleep with others, so just keep away from my narrow little bed. I mean it!!!
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
How about just simply taking your business and money elsewhere? To force my money into the pocket of a person who doesn't want my money seems counterproductive to me. If a baker doesn't want to bake you a cake, go to one who does.
I'm not talking about the stupid baker thing but being denied housing, a job, health insurance refusing to cover your treatments, etc. because of your sexual orientation or gender identity. You know, serious things that actually matter?
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
I'm not talking about the stupid baker thing but being denied housing, a job, health insurance refusing to cover your treatments, etc. because of your sexual orientation or gender identity. You know, serious things that actually matter?
So the general public has to pay for hormones and cosmetic surgery just because bottomless pockets. There are little children out there who can't get proper treatment for their cancers, their families go broke getting them treatment and you are saying we should pay for someones dysphoria.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
So the general public has to pay for hormones and cosmetic surgery just because bottomless pockets. There are little children out there who can't get proper treatment for their cancers, their families go broke getting them treatment and you are saying we should pay for someones dysphoria.
Transsexualism is a medical condition and hormones and surgery are the medical treatments for it, so it should be covered by insurance like other standard medical treatments. It's not an either/or thing, so take your silly attempt to play on emotions elsewhere. You gonna bring up starving children in Africa next? :rolleyes:
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
There are a lot of other people besides transgender on this board and that doesn't mean I have to drink all the Kool-Aid they offer me. People have diverse opinions and beliefs, words can be said that you don't like and that doesn't mean you get to shut them up. People are free to have their beliefs, not just you, other people too. Freedom Hurts, get used to it. You drink your Kool-Aid and I'll drink mine.

I had the surgery in 2007. After I got off the psych meds I realized that it was all a huge mistake. Recently, I heard from a Mental Health professional that the whole transgender surgery thing was an experiment, a largely failed one in my opinion. The suicide rate is still over 40% even post surgery.

I've long since purposed to stop the surgical procedures, and I speak out every day it seems.

A viable procedure for dealing with the Transgender issue is what Native Americans, and others throughout the world have done for who knows how long. Navajos and most other American tribes have what they call Nadeeli (Two Spirit) IE Male, or Female,or Male with strong female spirit, and Female with strong male spirit. There are no surgeries, and no hormones. The Nadeeli just live as who they are, and it is considered normal in their cultures.

When they diagnosed me as Transgender, I actually was having a breakdown from PTSD, and I eventually came out of it. I am not going into the cause of my PTSD. Suffice it to say that I wish I had just died from it all. Your lashing out at people like me is not helpful. I actually do wish I could suicide but there are a couple people that would be hurt. Reading what you have to say makes resisting that impulse difficult.
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
I had the surgery in 2007. After I got off the psych meds I realized that it was all a huge mistake. Recently, I heard from a Mental Health professional that the whole transgender surgery thing was an experiment, a largely failed one in my opinion. The suicide rate is still over 40% even post surgery.

I've long since purposed to stop the surgical procedures, and I speak out every day it seems.

A viable procedure for dealing with the Transgender issue is what Native Americans, and others throughout the world have done for who knows how long. Navajos and most other American tribes have what they call Nadeeli (Two Spirit) IE Male, or Female,or Male with strong female spirit, and Female with strong male spirit. There are no surgeries, and no hormones. The Nadeeli just live as who they are, and it is considered normal in their cultures.

When they diagnosed me as Transgender, I actually was having a breakdown from PTSD, and I eventually came out of it. I am not going into the cause of my PTSD. Suffice it to say that I wish I had just died from it all. Your lashing out at people like me is not helpful. I actually do wish I could suicide but there are a couple people that would be hurt. Reading what you have to say makes resisting that impulse difficult.

I am sorry, I don't want you to suicide and I agree with a lot of what you had to say. I am very sorry if what I said hurt you. I am not lashing out at you at all, I am lashing out at an ideology that I don't agree with.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
I am sorry, I don't want you to suicide and I agree with a lot of what you had to say. I am very sorry if what I said hurt you. I am not lashing out at you at all, I am lashing out at an ideology that I don't agree with.

Well, that is something we agree on. I can only regulate and determine the course, with difficulty, for my life and no one else. If you look on YouTube you will see that there are just lots of people who thought they were transgender but have detransitioned back to their birth gender. If I live long enough, I mean to see a definite alternate path for people with gender uncertainty.

One of my issues is that because of circumstances we won't talk about tonight, I hated males, and hated being one of the enemy. Later I found out that I am Intersex, so am sort of both. I do not know enough about genetics to talk about it all. So here I was a male who fathered two children, unless she played around ??? No accusations. But the largest complaint about me is that I am very effeminate. Lacking knowledge, people thought I was gay. Never had a gay thought in my life, ever.

I've tried to portray a male recently but was a dismal failure. So, now, being 72 it seems I'll just live out my life as an old woman.

Peace.
 

Jonathan Bailey

Well-Known Member
ninjas need protection

I don't want to be denied a job, healthcare, education or a home loan because the prospective employer, provider, school or loan officer at the bank merely thinks I am gay. I would not openly reveal my sexual orientation to a prospective employer or any of the others I mentioned anyway because it's none of their business in the first place.

Before the Civil Rights Act of 1964, women were heavily discriminated against, blacks were heavily discriminated against, Jews were heavily discriminated against and Catholics were heavily discriminated against and this Act has protected those human PEOPLE since the mid-1960's.

LBGT are human PEOPLE too and need equal protection under federal law against redneck hillbilly state mentality.

It's not about creating a new protected class just for the sake of it, it's about protecting all humans equally.

This redneck peckerwood Lankford, had he been a Senator in a Southern state in the 1950's, might have sported a Klansman hood and a hang rope. He might have burned black churches and beat up black people. He would have probably been pro-Jim Crow and wanted to keep black people at the back of the bus and out of "white" drinking fountains.

I still wrote this man out of the principle of being an American. I was following my conscience.
 
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