Should Muslims acknowledge the Jews sovereignty over Israel?

[Assad91]

Quite easily, Deuteronomy 28. Holocaust Theology is a hotly debated topic but I see no difference in the Theological rationale than the destruction at the Babylonian and Assyrian and Roman hands. If anything, I believe the proportion with the Romans was a worse ratio. There's also the issue of how to interpret the prophecies which indicate how the events are played out.

So Hitler was doing your gods work? How nice. You were chosen as in chosen to be forced to labor and gassed. What a lovely reason to be chosen.

Now are you saying that the same logic applies to the Palestinians?

Nope.

Or that there's no logic to apply to begin with? How does Islamic theology rationalize the string of Arab defeats and the successful defense by the Jews?

I don't try to play like I know what God is doing. But just because of a win or loss of a war, doesn't mean anything.

Just like if we got into a fight, and you won, doesn't mean my God is false. And the other way around. Just means I am lacking something (strength, strategy, etc)

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... if you consider it "Crude Theology", then you might as well limit your arguments to those who don't take the Quran or the Torah seriously in that regard, which greatly limits your pool.

I have no idea what you're saying here. I fully suspect that the author of Job found that theology similarly crude and that Job was a (brilliant) polemic against it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's best I don't get into this Anti-game I just got here . Anyway I smell set-up , cover up /coming . Any- way your answer is wrong .

And your answer is still forthcoming. How very convenient for you.

 

[Iti oj]

I'm assuming you're completely unfamiliar with the Massive amount of Soviet Aid to the Arabs, and you think that Western Help to Israel supercedes Allah's assistance?

America is God's country silly. Ergo what we do is Gods will.duhhh

 

[MusaaEl-Haadi]

I'm assuming you're completely unfamiliar with the Massive amount of Soviet Aid to the Arabs, and you think that Western Help to Israel supercedes Allah's assistance?

I never Assume anything When I don't Know Something I let other answer the question ; Nor do I deal with website link . I gave the answer how those who call themself jews got that land and who help them take the land . In order to prove my point . I would have to stop and answer the Anti-Question . I've seen this same movie before , Anyway One have to go back to the beginning , And go step by step .

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Again: The first wave of Zionist immigration dates to the late 19th and early 20th century. To whom you believe Palestine belonged at that time.

 

[Shermana]

I never Assume anything When I don't Know Something I let other answer the question ; Nor do I deal with website link . I gave the answer how those who call themself jews got that land and who help them take the land . In order to prove my point . I would have to stop and answer the Anti-Question . I've seen this same movie before , Anyway One have to go back to the beginning , And go step by step .

So by "not dealing with website link", it's basically a matter of accepting your word and that's that as if you speak golden truth without need for outside support for claims. Okay, good luck with that approach. It's quite the common one for the pro-Palestinian side.

Now with that said, is this the first time you've encountered the basic historical fact that the Arabs had massive Soviet support (And they had excellent quality equipment to give them)? How does that jive with your answer that it was all thanks to the Westerners that Israel survived?

 

[Shermana]

I have no idea what you're saying here. I fully suspect that the author of Job found that theology similarly crude and that Job was a (brilliant) polemic against it.

What part of what I said isn't clear? I'm aware with the polemic of the Book of Job and how it completely clashes with otherwise basic plain terms of the Torah and warnings of the Prophets. Such Polemics totally clashing and contradicting with other parts of the Tanakh are found such as with Ruth, which was likely an attack on Ezra-Nehemiah, but that's for another debate.

For some reason however this Job-ian theology didn't make it to the Talmudic authors who attributed the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple to the sins of the people. It must be convenient to be able ascribe one thing to Divine Justice and not another. And calling it "Crude" is a nice way to polemicize in itself, but it doesn't get around what the Tanakh explicitly says over and over about one's fate being tied to their actions.

Besides, we're talking about what the QURAN says and ISLAMIC Theology.

 

[Shermana]

So Hitler was doing your gods work? How nice. You were chosen as in chosen to be forced to labor and gassed. What a lovely reason to be chosen.

This is a controversial issue and the source of much debate, especially by those who can't fathom the idea of the Tanakh's words actually being consistent, but it's not so much "doing God's work" but being used as the Rod His iron. I see no reason to accept one mass slaughter of the Jews being done by the "Rod of his wrath" but not another.

What part about Deuteronomy 28 did you not understand exactly?

Nope.
I don't try to play like I know what God is doing. But just because of a win or loss of a war, doesn't mean anything.

Doesn't the Quran say something about Allah granting victory to those who do his will? Doesn't it say that He does what He wills? Well you don't have to play like you know what He's doing. You're supposed to just take a hint, that's the general gist of both of our religions in such a regard.

Just like if we got into a fight, and you won, doesn't mean my God is false. And the other way around. Just means I am lacking something (strength, strategy, etc

"A single man will cause flight to a thousand". Sound mind for Strategy and strength are given to those whom He wills. Apparently He decided not to favor the Arabs. Over and over and over again.

 

[MusaaEl-Haadi]

So by "not dealing with website link", it's basically a matter of accepting your word and that's that as if you speak golden truth without need for outside support for claims. Okay, good luck with that approach. It's quite the common one for the pro-Palestinian side.

Now with that said, is this the first time you've encountered the basic historical fact that the Arabs had massive Soviet support (And they had excellent quality equipment to give them)? How does that jive with your answer that it was all thanks to the Westerners that Israel survived?

Website are like Religion Meaning it has many diffrent Version of the same Subject , Meaning you have Roman Catholics , Pentecostals , Baptists ,Etc etc And the many Sub-groups that come out of them . But they all follow a diffrent version , schools of throught . And they all cliam to have the words of God . So when one doesn't do His / Her's own Research . They're left in the hands of these Authors , Scholars , Theologian, Minister , Pastor's , Imaams , Sheikhs . Rabbis , Who are really control-ing what they Believe / Accept , What right and what wrong . This not counting who control's the Religious Media . This is why people have diffrent Version to post . Plus it leave one from the original Subject / Question ! Just food for thought !!!!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

For some reason however this Job-ian theology didn't make it to the Talmudic authors who attributed the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple to the sins of the people.

Their loss ...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Website are like Religion Meaning ...

And yet again: The first wave of Zionist immigration dates to the late 19th and early 20th century. To whom you believe Palestine belonged at that time? You seem to be having trouble with the question.

 

[MusaaEl-Haadi]

And yet again: The first wave of Zionist immigration dates to the late 19th and early 20th century. To whom you believe Palestine belonged at that time? You seem to be having trouble with the question.

What your point here ??

 

[fantome profane]

What your point here ??

Answer his question, and then we will all see what is point is.

Till then the point seems to be that you are afraid to answer the question.

 

[MusaaEl-Haadi]

Answer his question, and then we will all see what is point is.

Till then the point seems to be that you are afraid to answer the question.< Thats funny sound like something a child would say

Lololol

 

[Assad91]

This is a controversial issue and the source of much debate, especially by those who can't fathom the idea of the Tanakh's words actually being consistent, but it's not so much "doing God's work" but being used as the Rod His iron. I see no reason to accept one mass slaughter of the Jews being done by the "Rod of his wrath" but not another.

What part about Deuteronomy 28 did you not understand exactly?



Doesn't the Quran say something about Allah granting victory to those who do his will? Doesn't it say that He does what He wills? Well you don't have to play like you know what He's doing. You're supposed to just take a hint, that's the general gist of both of our religions in such a regard.



"A single man will cause flight to a thousand". Sound mind for Strategy and strength are given to those whom He wills. Apparently He decided not to favor the Arabs. Over and over and over again.

Clearly you know nothing of Islam. Your logic is just as faulty as the "majority accepts this so it must be right".

You make Jewish theology sound uneducated.

 

[Avi1001]

The real question here is How did they come about geting that land , Can we say Balfour Declaration , Now before someone try to use the Anti-jew card . Don't even try it . I'm not Anti-Anyone / Religion . With a little ReSearch one can see / know who the land of Palestine belong to .

Salaam Alaikum MusaaEl-Haadi, what brings you to an interfaith forum ? Are you here in peace ? Are you here to learn from those of other faiths, and teach about your own faith ? The manner in which you present yourself tells us your goals. Shalom.

 

[Shermana]

Clearly you know nothing of Islam. Your logic is just as faulty as the "majority accepts this so it must be right".

You make Jewish theology sound uneducated.

Oh I'm sorry, you must have all kinds of Quranic verses to disprove me, especially ways to get around what the Tanakh explicitly says at well. But I'd like to know what your definition of "uneducated" means. By all means, "educate" us here to what the truth actually is, apart from what the Writ itself says.

 

[Flankerl]

Oh look another thread to let the hate grow.

 

[Assad91]

Oh I'm sorry, you must have all kinds of Quranic verses to disprove me, especially ways to get around what the Tanakh explicitly says at well. But I'd like to know what your definition of "uneducated" means. By all means, "educate" us here to what the truth actually is, apart from what the Writ itself says.

Dude, I don't know about your tanakh, but no where in the Qur'an are verses to absolve oppressors of their evils.

Qur'an talks of being tested but nothing of what you're talking about.

Whats uneducated? Thinking your own god worked through Hitler to murder 6 million of your own people. Talk about blaming the victim.