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Should we help people who are acting only for selfish goals?
- Thread starter Onkara
- Start date
That all depends on their particular selfish goals and if by helping them attain their goals, we attain our own.
CatholicCrusader
Member
What is the ultimate goal? 1 Timothy 2:3,4: "God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
When we pray the Lord's Prayer, we say "thy will be done", and it is His will that all men be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
So, yes, we should help all people who may have lost sight of that goal to regain sight of that goal, and if possible, help them in that regard. Because, if they regain sight of that goal, all other behaviors should fall into place as they should be.
:yes:
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What if their goals are materialist, such as getting a good reputation at work, making more money from others or satisfying their lust.
I can see the logic in helping someone to find peace/God or in getting a share of the benefits.
But what if but what about the situations where this is not clear or visible, and it feels like you are being used? Is that still acceptable for you?
I don't mean breaking the law, I am just interested in views.
I can see the logic in helping someone to find peace/God or in getting a share of the benefits.
But what if but what about the situations where this is not clear or visible, and it feels like you are being used? Is that still acceptable for you?
I don't mean breaking the law, I am just interested in views.
averageJOE
zombie
Hey, I've helped my buddies get laid before!
Again, if there is no moral conflict and the assistance also benefits you, why not?
Reptillian
Hamburgler Extraordinaire
There are some philosophies suggesting that all human beings are inherently selfish and that selfishness ultimately drives behavior. A proponent of this philosophy might for example say that a guy who feeds and clothes the poor doesn't do so out of the "goodness of his heart", but instead acts out of a selfish desire to feel good about himself, or to create a positive social image for himself.
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
This clearly depends on what the "selfish goals" are!
I quote the Baha'i scriptures:
"In creation there is no evil; all is good. Certain qualities and natures innate in some men and apparently blameworthy are not so in reality. For example, from the beginning of his life you can see in a nursing child the signs of greed, of anger and of temper. Then, it may be said, good and evil are innate in the reality of man, and this is contrary to the pure goodness of nature and creation. The answer to this is that greed, which is to ask for something more, is a praiseworthy quality provided that it is used suitably. So if a man is greedy to acquire science and knowledge, or to become compassionate, generous and just, it is most praiseworthy. If he exercises his anger and wrath against the bloodthirsty tyrants who are like ferocious beasts, it is very praiseworthy; but if he does not use these qualities in a right way, they are blameworthy."
--Some Answered Questions, Chapter 57, p. 215
Peace,
Bruce
I quote the Baha'i scriptures:
"In creation there is no evil; all is good. Certain qualities and natures innate in some men and apparently blameworthy are not so in reality. For example, from the beginning of his life you can see in a nursing child the signs of greed, of anger and of temper. Then, it may be said, good and evil are innate in the reality of man, and this is contrary to the pure goodness of nature and creation. The answer to this is that greed, which is to ask for something more, is a praiseworthy quality provided that it is used suitably. So if a man is greedy to acquire science and knowledge, or to become compassionate, generous and just, it is most praiseworthy. If he exercises his anger and wrath against the bloodthirsty tyrants who are like ferocious beasts, it is very praiseworthy; but if he does not use these qualities in a right way, they are blameworthy."
--Some Answered Questions, Chapter 57, p. 215
Peace,
Bruce
That's is helpful from my perspective because if it is nature that drives us then it is nature which is ultimately served. Another person's disadvantage serves nature. I am happy with that personally.
Probably because of self-image and self-respect or pride. It isn't nice to think you are helping someone but not at your own cost and loss to your self. That is what I am trying to get at.
This clearly depends on what the "selfish goals" are!
I quote the Baha'i scriptures:
"In creation there is no evil; all is good. Certain qualities and natures innate in some men and apparently blameworthy are not so in reality. For example, from the beginning of his life you can see in a nursing child the signs of greed, of anger and of temper. Then, it may be said, good and evil are innate in the reality of man, and this is contrary to the pure goodness of nature and creation. The answer to this is that greed, which is to ask for something more, is a praiseworthy quality provided that it is used suitably. So if a man is greedy to acquire science and knowledge, or to become compassionate, generous and just, it is most praiseworthy. If he exercises his anger and wrath against the bloodthirsty tyrants who are like ferocious beasts, it is very praiseworthy; but if he does not use these qualities in a right way, they are blameworthy."
--Some Answered Questions, Chapter 57, p. 215
Peace,
Bruce
Thanks Bruce, the quote is helpful. I think it is depending on the way the qualities are used. I think we know intuitively when someone is using their qualities wrongly or rightly, but often we have to make a decisions on if we are going to be part of their plan or not. I am happy to conclude all in creation is good and relative to that.
Oneatatime
Huh?
Many goals in life are ultimately selfish, and aiding people to accomplish their goals so that they will in turn aid us in attaining our selfish goals is fairly common practice. I would however draw the line where helping someone attain a goal involves another person being subject to non-consensual loss or suffering.
Reptillian
Hamburgler Extraordinaire
This would be great if nature were some superior divine force or godlike entity, but nature appears to be cold, indifferent, and souless from a human perspective. I think that as thinking physical beings, it should be our goal to surpass and subjigate nature. In the absense of gods, it should be our aim to become godlike and obtain a deep understanding of truth while wisely controlling the power that such an understanding gives. If humanity isn't up to the task, then surely the creature and machine intelligences that we create will be.
Well this leads to my next question, how do we know that our sacrifice or consensual loss will be repaid in return? Sometimes we have to give without any clear sign that our giving will ever be returned, what then?
For me nature is a divine force. My proof is in the eating... my mind can only try to explain the divinity of nature but appears to never completely succeed. Yet nature Herself created my mind!
At some point my mind had to bow to nature, its true Mistress, and I have to accept I am one with Her.
Oneatatime
Huh?
Well this leads to my next question, how do we know that our sacrifice or consensual loss will be repaid in return? Sometimes we have to give without any clear sign that our giving will ever be returned, what then?
Ultimately we don't know if our efforts will ever be reciprocated and part of life is learning to be careful with our resources so that we don't give more than we can afford to lose. That said most of us do partake in what can only be described as huge risk when we enter into relationship and in some cases throw all our resources into the same basket with our partners. Sometimes this works out wonderfully for both people, other times not so wonderfully.
Ultimately we can accomplish far more together than we can do alone so on balance its generally better to take the risk.
How do you personally know when you are over stretching your limits or feel someone taken advantage of your kindness? I think there has to be an intuitive awareness of that fact or you pretty much have to just keep giving at take the risk as you point out.
Quite often our losses can be recuperated. For example if it is at work, we can apply for new job, if in a relationship we can get out, hope the court divides the wealth equally etc.
Some perhaps turn to their scripture or religious community?
I propose the question just out of interest (to anyone), what do you do when you feel you are serving another person beyond your means to recuperate the costs of doing so?
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
It would be rather hypocritical not to help them, as helping people is also primarily a selfish act.
Very tricky, because you often really don't know. On the same idea, I won't give to Christian charities who I know have selfish (conversion) tactic up their sleeves.
For individuals, I try my best to judge what the giving will do. Will it help, or hurt. For those of us who are parents, we all know that sometimes the best route is not to give. Kids (and sometimes the other unknown 'beggars' or recipients) need to get the message that its time to grow up.
I'm not interested in helping people with things I disagree with.
When it comes down to it, most things are done for selfish reasons anyway, it's just that some of them are good for the individual and for those around them, and some are not. I'm willing to help co-workers with things at work, or to help neighbors with things that they need, or to help friends with things, or to help a stranger if need be, as long as their self-focused thing is something I view to be positive or at least neutral.
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ninerbuff
godless wonder
Lol, look up bail out.
