Sign of the times - departing from faith - Greg Laurie FB post

[von551]

Anybody read this? If not, read it then respond...

One sign of the end times will be people turning away from the faith. The Bible speaks of an apostasy, a departure from the faith in the last days (see Thessalonians 2:3). We read in 2 Timothy 4:3–4 that in the last days, some "will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, . . . will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables."

Sometimes the devil comes in like a roaring lion in his depravity. At other times, he comes in as an angel of light in his splendor. That is why the apostle Paul wrote to the churches of Galatia, "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8).

There are people today who say that we need to reimagine the church, that we can't do it the old way. But I don't think we need to re-imagine church. Rather, we need to rediscover the church the way Jesus set it up. We need to go back to the original template.

In some churches today, the sermons are short, more like pep talks than messages from God's Word. I want to hear the Word of God. I want to know what the Bible says about all the things that I am going to face in life.

Paul wrote to Timothy, "Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching" (2 Timothy 4:2).

The antidote to the deception we will see more of in the last days is hearing and knowing God's Word.

I find it ironic and disturbing that Greg thinks the 'faith' spoken of here is Christianity. No such thing existed at the time of this writing. There were two main 'religions': paganism and Judaism. You either did one or the other in the first century under Roman rule or you were killed for being and Atheist under roman law. Departing from the 'faith' is talking about Judaism. Creating new rules, laws and ultimately a new religion a few hundred years later called Christianity. Ironically started by the Roman Catholic Church instituted by Constantine the Crazy in the 4th Century. This scripture is speaking of those defecting from the strict Biblical laws of Judaism for some easier religion that incorporates cultural paganism and hedonism into it's dogma. A universal religion, Catholicism. That is what Catholic literally means after all...universal. A 'church' for all man kind, yet all throughout Scripture God calls His people to be unique, peculiar, set apart, holy compared to those non-believers around them. I believe Greg's post is 2,000 years too late. These 'end days' already began way back then. Thoughts? Peace & Blessings.

“Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth.”
― Henry David Thoreau

 

[Sleeppy]

Christ is the universal church and law. And for a time there will be a great apostasy from Christ, until Christ bows every knee.

 

[Pegg]

yes von551, i think your right in that he has the timing a little skewif. The apostasy began even when the apostles were still alive and we see evidence for that in the their own writings such as :

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 However, brothers, respecting the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ (last days)...3*... because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.


The apostasy would come before the last days when the presense of Christ would begin.

And John wrote that some apostates had already begun to show themselves in the first century
1 John 2:18 Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as YOU have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour.


So the apostasy is not what is being spoken of in 2 Timothy. That is certainly a prophecy about the 'last days' during christs presence in kingdom power, but Paul says
But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2*For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3*having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4*betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5*having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.

The way to understand vs 5 is not with regard to the 'apostasy' but with regard to the fact that christians would be turning away from the church in the last days. Many would claim to be Christian, but 'prove false' to that claim by living contrary to the requirements set out by Christ.

 

[seeking4truth]

The same descriptions exist in Islam.
Islamic traditions say that the Holy Prophet(pboh) said that in the Latter days faith/religious knowledge would have risen from the earth and ascended to the Pleiades, then a man from among the Persians would bring it back.

How will we recognise the Latter days?

 

[Pegg]

The same descriptions exist in Islam.
Islamic traditions say that the Holy Prophet(pboh) said that in the Latter days faith/religious knowledge would have risen from the earth and ascended to the Pleiades, then a man from among the Persians would bring it back.

How will we recognise the Latter days?

im not sure if Mohammad gave any 'signs' to watch for, but Jesus & his apostles certainly did.

Jesus description of the 'last days' is found in the gospel of Matthew and in the letter to Timothy.

Matthew 24:3*While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”
4*And in answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads YOU; 5*for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6*YOU are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that YOU are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet.
7*“For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8*All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.
9*“Then people will deliver YOU up to tribulation and will kill YOU, and YOU will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name. 10*Then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11*And many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12*and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off. 13*But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved. 14*And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.



The sign of the times described by the Apostle Paul is found at 2Tim 3:
2 Timothy 3:1 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2*For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3*having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4*betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5*having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away

 

[jtartar]

Anybody read this? If not, read it then respond...

One sign of the end times will be people turning away from the faith. The Bible speaks of an apostasy, a departure from the faith in the last days (see Thessalonians 2:3). We read in 2 Timothy 4:3–4 that in the last days, some "will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, . . . will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables."

Sometimes the devil comes in like a roaring lion in his depravity. At other times, he comes in as an angel of light in his splendor. That is why the apostle Paul wrote to the churches of Galatia, "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8).

There are people today who say that we need to reimagine the church, that we can't do it the old way. But I don't think we need to re-imagine church. Rather, we need to rediscover the church the way Jesus set it up. We need to go back to the original template.

In some churches today, the sermons are short, more like pep talks than messages from God's Word. I want to hear the Word of God. I want to know what the Bible says about all the things that I am going to face in life.

Paul wrote to Timothy, "Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching" (2 Timothy 4:2).

The antidote to the deception we will see more of in the last days is hearing and knowing God's Word.

I find it ironic and disturbing that Greg thinks the 'faith' spoken of here is Christianity. No such thing existed at the time of this writing. There were two main 'religions': paganism and Judaism. You either did one or the other in the first century under Roman rule or you were killed for being and Atheist under roman law. Departing from the 'faith' is talking about Judaism. Creating new rules, laws and ultimately a new religion a few hundred years later called Christianity. Ironically started by the Roman Catholic Church instituted by Constantine the Crazy in the 4th Century. This scripture is speaking of those defecting from the strict Biblical laws of Judaism for some easier religion that incorporates cultural paganism and hedonism into it's dogma. A universal religion, Catholicism. That is what Catholic literally means after all...universal. A 'church' for all man kind, yet all throughout Scripture God calls His people to be unique, peculiar, set apart, holy compared to those non-believers around them. I believe Greg's post is 2,000 years too late. These 'end days' already began way back then. Thoughts? Peace & Blessings.

“Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth.”
― Henry David Thoreau

Von551,
Interesting what you said about TRUTH. It seems that most people do not believe that TRUTH matters to God, in spite of what the scriptures say, John 4:23,24, and a great warning recorded at 2Thess 2:1-12.
Notice that Paul speaks about something that was a restraint against the falling away to apostasy, 2Thess 2:6,7. This restraint that Paul was speaking about was the Apostles. The Apostles were the authority about Christianity in the first century.
It was on Passover day of 33CE that the Christian Congregation started. At this time the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Apostles, and they received much power to do many miraculous acts, curing all sorts of diseases, bringing people back from death, getting rid of demons from people.
Only the ones who had fellowshipped with Jesus received the powers of the Holy Spirit. This was after their baptism in the name of the Father and the son and the Holy Spirit, their first baptism by John the Baptist was for forgiveness of the Jews for their sins against God, because they were in a Covenant relationship with Him. NO Jews that continued in Judaism received the Holy Spirit, and it was passed on to others who were baptized as Christians, by the laying on of the hands of the Apostles, Acts 8:14-19, Gal 3:1,2, 1Con 12:28
It seems that this small group started to be called Christians about 2 years later. They were called Christians because they were followers of Jesus Christ, Acts 11:26.
John tells us that the falling away had already started to happen, even in his day, 1John 2:18,19. After John died there was a great apostasy11 In the fourth century, as you stated, Constantine ruled over the Nicene Council. He even had the authority to judge which of the ones who argued over the truth of the Gospels, was correct. Can you imagine?? Constantine was a bloodthirsty pagan, and never even became a nominal Christian until he was on his deathbed, do you can imagine how much of God's Holy Spirit was on him, to make decisions.
One the false doctrines started to be introduced into Christianity, it started to be corrupted, and it has continued to get further from the truth, down to this very day.
The Bible tells us that the word of God is alive and powerful. If the religious leaders and teachers had been teaching the word of God the world would have been getting to be a better place to live, but they taught false doctrines, doctrines of men, and so the see the results today, 2Tim 3:1-5, Rom 1:18-32, Matt 24:11,12, John 16:1-3, 2Pet 2:1-3,3:15-16, Acts 20:29,30, Matt 7:15-23.
One very good thing is recorded in the Bible for all of a good heard, God is still blessing THE ONE TRUE religion, Eph 4:4-6. It is up to us to find that one!!!

 

[DawudTalut]

The same descriptions exist in Islam.
Islamic traditions say that the Holy Prophet(pboh) said that in the Latter days faith/religious knowledge would have risen from the earth and ascended to the Pleiades, then a man from among the Persians would bring it back.

How will we recognise the Latter days?

Peace be on you.

Signs of latter days