Sincerity; Integrity; Honesty

[Poeticus]

How do you evaluate one's sincerity, integrity, and honesty ? In terms of dharma, how does one quantify all three ?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Prepare a quiz and then evaluate (like they have quizes for the best religion you could belong).

 

[Vinayaka]

How do you evaluate one's sincerity, integrity, and honesty ? In terms of dharma, how does one quantify all three ?

I don't understand. Are you asking it about yourself, or are you looking out at others?

 

[Asha]

How do you evaluate one's sincerity, integrity, and honesty ? In terms of dharma, how does one quantify all three ?

Namaste,

If we are talking about evaluating others then I think that is best left to the guru.

But if we are eveluating ourselves that is something we have to examine very closely.

And we must banish the ego in order to do this.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Well, Thruve, there are such people, and that is why the sky does not fall. It was my fortune to work with one. When the person retired, I prepared a plaque as a parting gift which said:

"Tejah, kshama, dhritih, shouchamadrohonatimanita;
bhavanti sampadam daivimabhijatya, Bharata." BG 16.3

(Vigor, forgiveness, fortitude, cleanliness, and freedom from envy and from the passion for honor;
these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature.)

 

[Poeticus]

Members,

I'm talking about societal interaction, wherein an evaluation of others (and of oneself, but I am primarily talking about of others), a gauging of their sincerity, integrity, and honesty occurs. This does not usually mean the involving of guru-s, as they are not physically present with you at all times like, say, a cellphone. In a dharmic approach/paradigm/context, how would one quantify these three in regards to other people ?

 

[Vinayaka]

Thank for the clarification. I say it's done by your own observation, and over time. So for example somebody promises to help you out, but then doesn't show up, that's a sign. I think we have a duty to ourselves to avoid adharmic people, the test is how they behave in certain situations. I don't think we should 'test' anyone though.

For me personally, its helped to lower my expectations. I learned that form my Guru. We were discussing a certain person, and he stared at me, saying, 'Don't expect much." in a slow deliberate way, so I'd get it.

 

[Red Zambala]

Zero Attention.
For 2 reasons:
1. In material existence, which includes people's external expressions, etc. - nothing can be perfect at all; it's important to have Sincerity, Integrity, Honesty - in the realm of your heart and with god; in your consciousness - it is clear; expressions - may be different and judgments....it's always better to refrain from any judgements at all....it's not my job to make judgements or gauge...
2. if you are in good spiritual state - you can tell much - by energy, you can intuitively see through many things.....but even if you can.....you don't care....because all your attention is on watching yourself....on watching mantra and breath... no time for judging...

 

[Vinayaka]

.it's always better to refrain from any judgements at all....it's not my job to make judgements or gauge...

So if you're getting your basement refinished, and you get 4 bids from 4 different contractors, you just flip a coin? You don't try to figure out the honest one with integrity?

 

[Red Zambala]

So if you're getting your basement refinished, and you get 4 bids from 4 different contractors, you just flip a coin? You don't try to figure out the honest one with integrity?

Good question
I would say, it has a little to do with judgement.
It's usually how the situation itself roll it out.
Sometimes you may know them, and with somebody you naturally would have better relationship or you like somebody somehow better; or it's price; and of course - if there would be heard many bad reviews, you would stay out....

But here we should make difference - between intentional judging and trying to figure; or it's the way reality presents itself for you....

Action - even dharmically - it's intentional action....If there is no intention, there is no action, no karma...

 

[Vinayaka]

I just wanted to clarify that personal relationships are far different than just observing strangers on a street. When it's something where circumstance is such that you have to be involved, then a keen observation is necessary, even dharmic. We are, after all, ourselves committed to finding the dharmic path, and association with like-minded individuals is paramount.

But outside that, it isn't our business. Sometimes though, total strangers do ask your opinion. Then I think (like here on RF) it's fine to put your opinion out there.

 

[Red Zambala]

I just wanted to clarify that personal relationships are far different than just observing strangers on a street. When it's something where circumstance is such that you have to be involved, then a keen observation is necessary, even dharmic. We are, after all, ourselves committed to finding the dharmic path, and association with like-minded individuals is paramount.

But outside that, it isn't our business. Sometimes though, total strangers do ask your opinion. Then I think (like here on RF) it's fine to put your opinion out there.

Yes, it probably is.
That's the reason I don't like to live in small towns or villages - because oftentimes half a town knows more about you as you yourself and the less you engage with them, the more legends there are about you

From Dharmic viewpoint - I think the main line is clear - Purusha - is watcher, not doer; it's 3 Guņas are acting!

My purely intellectual guess has been - the traditional Indian society has been made around idea to reduce all judging or envy as much as possible by social means - I mean - Castes, early marriages, etc. - so people would be always in their place and in their duty without much choice....
But, I know, in today's India - people are very much dependent on their neighbor's gauge, traditions, passions, etc....

 

[Haryaksha]

I agree with Vinayaka that it is done through observation and experience. Especially with something like honesty, overtime you can gauge how honest and trustworthy a person is. We can also take into account the Yamas and Niyamas through what we can observe. A person who appears peaceful, calm, collected, and content is likely to have more sincerity and integrity than an angry and aggressive person. Yet, even these can just be mere initial observations, and experience is the chief parameter when gauging the virtues of somebody.

I personally think the whole concept of 'not judging' is mainly an Abrahamic (chiefly Christian) tenet. To judge simply means to form an opinion about something through thought and observation. We all judge things everyday, and not just people; we judge food, clothes, books, movies, etc., and there's nothing wrong with that. It is part of the deeply individualized yet highly diverse nature of reality. In Hinduism, we have the concept of viveka - through which we consciously discriminate right from wrong, truth from untruth. Our power of viveka is naturally heightened through sadhana, by living in a dharmic manner. Of course, one should not be overly-judmental or prejudiced (pre-judging), but we do need to consciously discriminate in everyday life in order to spiritually progress.

 

[Red Zambala]

I strictly disagree.
I think it's a question of Liberation - how much we are free - from attachment, from attachment to certain views, from illusion that individual is the doer, how much our only object of meditation is the Brahman.

I repeat it again :
- it's 3 Guņas that acts, Purusha is the pure witness; Even if acting such person doesn't act.
- If all your attention is immersed in mantra, breath, oneness - you have no care for judging/ not judging - you have no time or worries about breakfest, not speaking about judging others.
- if everything is oneness - there is no much discernment - everything is one; even if you make some preferences for practical reasons - it is still not judging - it is 'how the situation rolls out' , which is different from sitting and pondering 'Ohh, what shall I do? Should I go now right or left?'
- it's all about consciousness and practice -
say, first I was eating everything people where offering me, I had no idea about vegetarianism; after some while of practice - I just couldn't eat anymore meat... - it's not, because I was sitting and much pondering - may be to eat a meat now, or not to eat - you just live and do as it naturally works, according to the level of inner enlightenment...
- often you may think - I will go there and there and do this and this - but actually most often everything turns out very different as you planned...so it's better to stop planning and sit and watch - everything is happening without you....

 

[Vinayaka]

I don't get the connection between being wise about making choices while dealing with other people and being judgmental. Who says being observant is judgmental?

But since it looks like this may turn into debate, and debate isn't allowed in the blue DIRs, I'm out.

But first a question to Poeticus... Did the discussion help at all?

 

[Red Zambala]

I don't get the connection between being wise about making choices while dealing with other people and being judgmental. Who says being observant is judgmental?

Ego. If there is thinking - there is ego. No thinking, no ego.
Of course, everyone has their observations, it is no problem when there is no thinking involved. But when there is thinking, there is ego.

For me people could be green, red, blue or rose - I just don't care for the transient world.
But I hear or read almost every other day some statements/ observations of others about me - 'you are this and this', you are such and such, etc....ohh...it's great they now it better than me....

such is my experience and observation...

 

[Poeticus]

I just wanted to clarify that personal relationships are far different than just observing strangers on a street. When it's something where circumstance is such that you have to be involved, then a keen observation is necessary, even dharmic. We are, after all, ourselves committed to finding the dharmic path, and association with like-minded individuals is paramount.

But outside that, it isn't our business. Sometimes though, total strangers do ask your opinion. Then I think (like here on RF) it's fine to put your opinion out there.

I don't get the connection between being wise about making choices while dealing with other people and being judgmental. Who says being observant is judgmental?

But since it looks like this may turn into debate, and debate isn't allowed in the blue DIRs, I'm out.

But first a question to Poeticus... Did the discussion help at all?

I found the discussion to be helpful, yes. I should have clarified some more, in that I was talking about personal relationships instead of encounters with strangers on the streets or one-time acquaintances, for example. I agree that a keen and articulated observation is certainly of merit, especially in regards to those that one is close with. I find silence to be a wonderful tool. Silently observing, analyzing, trying to understand the responses and actions of individuals that I am close to without expecting much. In the end, it helps in leaving me not too surprised, as well as getting to know them better without becoming too involved. I find it to be a maturing process, mostly for myself as I'm relatively still young, hoping to grow as much as I can from what I learn and experience and better myself from the challenges in the process.

 

[Vinayaka]

I found the discussion to be helpful, yes.

That's great. I like to think discussions here are sometimes useful. Affectionate detachment is a key, I think. And for sure, what you said ... silence. There is a direct correlation between silence and observation. As one decreases, the other increases.

 

[Jainarayan]

How do you evaluate one's sincerity, integrity, and honesty ? In terms of dharma, how does one quantify all three ?

Gut feeling... always listen to your gut and better judgement. Part of that comes frm silent observation, as you mentioned. As far as dharmically quantifying it, we can't. We'd be making a personal judgement we're not in a position to. Unless your gut feeling tells you the person is clearly out to do something underhanded, their actions and intentions may be the best they can do. We can only use the tools and gifts we're given.

 

[StarryNightshade]

How do you evaluate one's sincerity, integrity, and honesty ?

Aside from personal interaction, is there a quantifiable way to evaluate the aforementioned?