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So the question about self arising in the brain
- Thread starter Spirit of Light
- Start date
Martin
Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
I will protect my nugget with a helmet
I'm always surprised at the number of cyclists who don't bother with a helmet.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
If I am going to jump in a parachute someone have to strap it on to me and trow me out of the airplaneAlso wear a parachute when sky-diving.
I do not like to fly, and do not like falling toward the earth....
Martin
Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
I would associate that more with heart than head.
A drunk driver once attempted to kill me (by his own admission
to the cops). This was back in the 70s when helmets were novel.
I'm here today because of my old Bell helmet. Some here might
complain, but I call the result positive.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
I was training a lot on bicycle some years ago, and never left home without a helmet on my head
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Correct
Sufism is all about the heart (spiritual heart)
Martin
Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
If I am going to jump in a parachute someone have to strap it on to me and trow me out of the airplane
I did some hang-gliding many years ago. It's weird, they have a low glide speed, so in a strong wind you can be moving backwards relative to the ground. It's a great sense of freedom though.
Why would you leave perfectly useful ground?
Martin
Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
syo
Well-Known Member
the heart.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
sealchan
Well-Known Member
"When after acquiring proficiency in these Sciences [traditional sciences], I turned my attention to the methods of the Sufis, I came to know that their method attains perfection by means of theory and practice. The gist of their knowledge is to mortify the self and acquire freedom from baser passions and evil attributes so that the heart may get rid of the thought of anything save God and to embellish it with Divine remembrance."
"Imam Ghazzali"
When I read the text above, there is one question that arises. Maybe this question is both silly and serious at the same time. But I have to ask myself (pun not intended) But where is the self located
What is it that tells me, that this is me?
Science would maybe say, Your notion of self is in your brain....But is it?
A Buddhist would maybe say. Your self do not exist, But doesn't it?
A Sufi would maybe say, Your self is an illusion, But is it?
What if I could find the link between the brain and the unseen world we call the spirit world? or the non-materalistic world?
Any thoughts about what self is?
(scientific and religious answers are both welcome)
The self is the "center of narrative gravity" which is a collection of tales long and short that are accessed primarily through memory and human language. So while the mechanics of human language and story-telling may lie within the brain, the stage upon which this storying takes place is the world and the brain too and the body is part of that stage. The brain, the body and the physical and cultural worlds are complex and yet self-similar in their character (as above, so below) as they manifest their various forms and behaviors at various levels. That is, there is a common theme of systemic activity running through all such that a thing is always embedded in a complex context that co-creates the thing under consideration. The two, finally, are not separable. So too with the soul. The soul is meaningless without the body. Existence is meaningless without a languaging culture to contemplate it.
There is a sense through story and science that there are pockets of our reality that describe a long, broiling progression of development and that in spite of our efforts and failure, we make progress bit by bit. That story is one of our species perhaps together with our planet. It is as if God's creatures are ever so slowly moving to become gods themselves who in turn will create new creatures. The creatures arose from single cells and single cells from organic molecules born in soups served on planets orbiting stars, etc.
There has always been, it seems, a physically, manifest creation as well as a spiritual, potential creation. By watching the progression of the physical in certain choice locations, we see this progression and a continued act of creation moving ever more towards the "un-physical" or that which transcends the lower physical layer and its capabilities. With human language came human consciousness. With consciousness came science. With science came technology which is now creating a new layer of reality which is more wholly of the mind. That mind is taking shape through the physical layer of what is now called the Internet. Virtual reality, which will likely become greater in size than the know universe, is taking shape and becoming a place.
Where is the soul? Answer the related question, "Where is the Universe?" or "Where is God?" We truly have no perspective from which we can look out and point and say, "There it is!" We are fundamentally immersed in soul, universe, God and there is no escaping that position or point of view.
In my spiritual understanding there is only One Consciousness/God/Brahman which is the Self (with an upper-case 'S'). The 'self' then is a ray of Brahman/Consciousness experiencing through a finite body giving consciousness.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Does Advaita Hindu believe the ego is the lower self?
Yes, I think that is an acceptable way of putting it. It is a sense of separateness that we feel while in body.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Are you the cloud or the passing?
"When after acquiring proficiency in these Sciences [traditional sciences], I turned my attention to the methods of the Sufis, I came to know that their method attains perfection by means of theory and practice. The gist of their knowledge is to mortify the self and acquire freedom from baser passions and evil attributes so that the heart may get rid of the thought of anything save God and to embellish it with Divine remembrance."
"Imam Ghazzali"
When I read the text above, there is one question that arises. Maybe this question is both silly and serious at the same time. But I have to ask myself (pun not intended) But where is the self located
What is it that tells me, that this is me?
Science would maybe say, Your notion of self is in your brain....But is it?
A Buddhist would maybe say. Your self do not exist, But doesn't it?
A Sufi would maybe say, Your self is an illusion, But is it?
What if I could find the link between the brain and the unseen world we call the spirit world? or the non-materalistic world?
Any thoughts about what self is?
(scientific and religious answers are both welcome)
All the evidence we have thus far suggests that a sense of self is a byproduct of a functioning physical brain. The fact that a person who suffers brain damage can have a complete change in personality strongly indicates that there is no sense of self outside of the brain.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
"When after acquiring proficiency in these Sciences [traditional sciences], I turned my attention to the methods of the Sufis, I came to know that their method attains perfection by means of theory and practice. The gist of their knowledge is to mortify the self and acquire freedom from baser passions and evil attributes so that the heart may get rid of the thought of anything save God and to embellish it with Divine remembrance."
"Imam Ghazzali"
When I read the text above, there is one question that arises. Maybe this question is both silly and serious at the same time. But I have to ask myself (pun not intended) But where is the self located
What is it that tells me, that this is me?
Science would maybe say, Your notion of self is in your brain....But is it?
A Buddhist would maybe say. Your self do not exist, But doesn't it?
A Sufi would maybe say, Your self is an illusion, But is it?
What if I could find the link between the brain and the unseen world we call the spirit world? or the non-materalistic world?
Any thoughts about what self is?
(scientific and religious answers are both welcome)
All the evidence we have thus far suggests that a sense of self is a byproduct of a functioning physical brain. The fact that a person who suffers brain damage can have a complete change in personality strongly indicates that there is no sense of self outside of the brain.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
What if the brain is only a receiver and when like the radio is broken it can not receive the message anymore? the brain will not be able to receive the message.
From my perspective, this is how I would answer you.....
The Father’s house, where Jesus went to prepare a place for his disciples, is obviously in heaven. That is where Jesus went after his 40 days of remaining on earth after his resurrection to encourage them. Those of the “elect” (chosen ones) he said he would come back to take them to be where he was.
John 14:2-4...
“In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, so that where I am, there you may be also. And you know the way to the place where I am going.” (NRSVCE)
Jesus was speaking to members of his “elect”....those who would become “kings and priests” with him in his Kingdom. (Revelation 20:6) These alone are taken to heaven, but those they will rule, will be on earth. Kings need subjects and priests need sinners for whom to perform their priestly duties. There are no sinners in heaven....and kings do not rule one another.
Revelation 21:2-4 tells us that this kingdom will bring mankind back to God’s original purpose for us on this earth.....
“And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “See, the home of God is among mortals. He will dwell with them; they will be his peoples, and God himself will be with them; he will wipe every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; mourning and crying and pain will be no more, for the first things have passed away.” (Revelation 21:2-4 NRSVCE)
God is said to be with “mortals” and he will bring back the conditions that mankind were first offered.....everlasting life in paradise conditions on earth. Humans will always be mortals as they were in Eden, but there was a certain “tree of life” that gave them the ability to keep living without ever dying. Access to that tree was freely available.....until they disobeyed God’s command. Then it was off limits to them as sinners. (Genesis 3:22-24)
That means, humans who are redeemed by Christ’s sacrifice, will never have to experience ageing, suffering or pain, ever again. Obedience will mean that they can again have the opportunity to live forever right here where God put us in the first place. There is no mention of heaven or hell as opposite destinations in the Bible. All God ever offered mankind was “life or death”....that’s it.
Jesus promised a resurrection of the dead but not until his kingdom was established on earth. (John 5:28-29)
Yes...so what part of this world were his disciples to be no part of?
1 John 5:19 tells us who is running the show down here on earth....
“We know that we are God’s children, and that the whole world lies under the power of the evil one. (NRSVCE)
The devil is the “god” of this world (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) but most people are “blinded” to his influence, despite the fact that his stamp is on everything.....the three elements of satan’s world are the political, the commercial and the religious aspects that virtually control everything. All three are corrupt beyond belief, whilst pretending to be of benefit to us.
That is the world that Jesus told us to be no part of.....and because we aren’t flag waving patriots, ready to be used by our governments to kill our fellow man (often of the same religion) or up to our necks in greedy, profit driven commercialism, or supporting corrupt, blood spilling religions, we are not like the world, so they hate us. The world loves those it can control. Jesus’ disciples refused to become enmeshed in any of those things. We have to emulate them.