So the question about self arising in the brain

[blü 2]

"When after acquiring proficiency in these Sciences [traditional sciences], I turned my attention to the methods of the Sufis, I came to know that their method attains perfection by means of theory and practice. The gist of their knowledge is to mortify the self and acquire freedom from baser passions and evil attributes so that the heart may get rid of the thought of anything save God and to embellish it with Divine remembrance."

"Imam Ghazzali"

That seems remarkably void of any reasoned pursuit of understanding. It appears to involve little or no intellectual appetite at all.

But where is the self located
What is it that tells me, that this is me?

I'm not aware of any clear answer to this beyond "in the evolved biology of the human brain". Though "human" may be unfairly restrictive ─ our chimp cousins and other primates, and perhaps mammals and reptiles and birds and certain molluscs generally, may have self-awareness, 'self'.

What if I could find the link between the brain and the unseen world we call the spirit world? or the non-materalistic world?

As long as you have a repeatable demonstration of this "unseen world" as a phenomenon external to the person experiencing the link ─ that is, as something real, something with objective existence ─ then a Nobel Prize will be yours and I'll look on in awe and say, "Golly, I sure got that wrong!"

Meanwhile, however ...

Any thoughts about what self is?

The human brain has many simultaneous functions, at least one of which is monitoring other functions. i suspect that such built-in feed-back mechanisms and internal intercommunications will be involved in the answer.

 

[QuestioningMind]

What if the brain is only a receiver and when like the radio is broken it can not receive the message anymore? the brain will not be able to receive the message.

It's certainly POSSIBLE... though there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that it's true. Also, when a radio breaks, it no longer works. A person who suffers brain damage can still function, but just with a new personality.

 

[Bear Wild]

"When after acquiring proficiency in these Sciences [traditional sciences], I turned my attention to the methods of the Sufis, I came to know that their method attains perfection by means of theory and practice. The gist of their knowledge is to mortify the self and acquire freedom from baser passions and evil attributes so that the heart may get rid of the thought of anything save God and to embellish it with Divine remembrance."

"Imam Ghazzali"

When I read the text above, there is one question that arises. Maybe this question is both silly and serious at the same time. But I have to ask myself (pun not intended) But where is the self located
What is it that tells me, that this is me?

Science would maybe say, Your notion of self is in your brain....But is it?
A Buddhist would maybe say. Your self do not exist, But doesn't it?
A Sufi would maybe say, Your self is an illusion, But is it?

What if I could find the link between the brain and the unseen world we call the spirit world? or the non-materalistic world?

Any thoughts about what self is?

(scientific and religious answers are both welcome)

Self is clearly in the brain. We know that by destroying certain sections of the brain we can alter the perception of self. Our brains create a self history which is continually modified. Our create its own reality of the world filtering all information that comes in. I am sure you have your own unique mental history than your perception of you and it is different from others you know. That is your "self" without any need for non-materialistic aspects. Your spiritual experiences may influence your "self" but you are still within your brain.

 

[Alienistic]

Any thoughts about what self is?

What authentic self is not- any qualities that I did not freely choose.

What inauthentic self is- any qualities that were chosen for me that I do not want or identify with. For how can I call this “myself” or “oneself?”

 

[Unveiled Artist]

"When after acquiring proficiency in these Sciences [traditional sciences], I turned my attention to the methods of the Sufis, I came to know that their method attains perfection by means of theory and practice. The gist of their knowledge is to mortify the self and acquire freedom from baser passions and evil attributes so that the heart may get rid of the thought of anything save God and to embellish it with Divine remembrance."

"Imam Ghazzali"

When I read the text above, there is one question that arises. Maybe this question is both silly and serious at the same time. But I have to ask myself (pun not intended) But where is the self located
What is it that tells me, that this is me?

Science would maybe say, Your notion of self is in your brain....But is it?
A Buddhist would maybe say. Your self do not exist, But doesn't it?
A Sufi would maybe say, Your self is an illusion, But is it?

What if I could find the link between the brain and the unseen world we call the spirit world? or the non-materalistic world?

Any thoughts about what self is?

(scientific and religious answers are both welcome)

Three pictures come to mind

There are two versions of the soul that comes to mind (well, in an spiritual sense) is the fixed and the changing.

1. For example, take a clock. You are the hands on the clock and the numbers represent each life experience as you age. Your soul changes per life experiences as the needle moves. You learn new things, repeat old habits, and learn again. But time is always moving and your soul is never stagnate as long as the hand keeps going (assuming batteries last 120 years unless you believe in everlasting ones).

So your soul is a combination of mixed experiences. There is no fixed soul or identity.

2. Another example is if our soul was a puzzle and the pieces were thrown all over the place. Our soul is fixed (one picture) but some people need help putting themselves together.

Our soul could be the picture of your ideal self but your life journey is to put rebuild or build yourself up. If it's a 1,000 piece puzzle, though, it would take awhile.

3. From a science psychology perspective the soul is who you are built by your experiences, culture, perception of self and others, and your place in the world. What you see in the mirror.

Edit to add cause I was headed out...

but I'm in between whether the soul is changing or fixed. In one way it was put, that "person" there experiencing aging is the soul.

Then another it's saying we aren't 18 anymore so our "soul" at 18 isn't like a 30 person's soul or 50. This is assuming the past doesn't exist anymore and the future is not yet came. They're not fixed so they can't define us.

Maybe it's more just personal belief really. Some identify with themselves more than others. For example, think about sexuality and gender identity who we are in relation to ourselves and others on a clean personal level. It's just who you are.

Defining it?

Well, if it's changing you can't. If it's fixed, it may take a lifetime. No quick answers.

Enjoy

 

[Aupmanyav]

Science would maybe say, Your notion of self is in your brain....But is it?
A Buddhist would maybe say. Your self do not exist, But doesn't it?
A Sufi would maybe say, Your self is an illusion, But is it?

What if I could find the link between the brain and the unseen world we call the spirit world? or the non-materalistic world?

What is material and what non-material? It is all composed of 'physical energy'. Yeah, there is an unseen, unrealized world which consists of energy. We do not have the apparatus to perceive it everywhere. But since has and it is experimenting with it.

Large Hadron Collider, CERN.

Yeah, I too believe that idea of 'self' is in brain (like science does).
I think the Buddhist have got it right. Your 'self' is 'anatta' (without substance) and 'anicca' (impermanent). It lasts only till your brain is working.
The Sufi also is correct in saying that your self is an illusion. Many Hindus too believe that. But if a Sufi (or anyone else) says that Allah or Soul exist, and that there is an after-life, then IMHO, they are claiming things without providing any evidence.

"The gist of their knowledge is to mortify the self and acquire freedom from baser passions and evil attributes so that the heart may get rid of the thought of anything save God and to embellish it with Divine remembrance." - Imam Gazzali
I find this OK or 11th Century in a far corner of Iran, but otherwise completely silly.

Ruins of Tus Citadel, North-Eastern Iran.

 

[Truthseeker]

When I read the text above, there is one question that arises. Maybe this question is both silly and serious at the same time. But I have to ask myself (pun not intended) But where is the self located
What is it that tells me, that this is me?

The self is the soul, in my view. It is not located in the body, it is connected to it, like a light is connected to a mirror. When the mirror breaks, the light lives on. When there's dross on the mirror, the light or soul is not fully manifest.

 

[Truthseeker]

All the evidence we have thus far suggests that a sense of self is a byproduct of a functioning physical brain. The fact that a person who suffers brain damage can have a complete change in personality strongly indicates that there is no sense of self outside of the brain.

The damage of the brain cracks the mirror and changes the light(soul) in the mirror.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The self is the soul, in my view. It is not located in the body, ..

Proof? Oh yes, the self lives in a parrot as in the story of 'One Thousand and One Nights'. To kill the evil magician, the Prince has to kill the parrot.

 

[Truthseeker]

This is an interfaith discussion thread, not a debate thread. You've made this mistake before. I'm just expressing my view.

 

[QuestioningMind]

The damage of the brain cracks the mirror and changes the light(soul) in the mirror.

I have no idea what this 'soul' nonsense is about, but glad that you agree that our sense of self is a by product of a function physical brain.

 

[PruePhillip]

"When after acquiring proficiency in these Sciences [traditional sciences], I turned my attention to the methods of the Sufis, I came to know that their method attains perfection by means of theory and practice. The gist of their knowledge is to mortify the self and acquire freedom from baser passions and evil attributes so that the heart may get rid of the thought of anything save God and to embellish it with Divine remembrance."

"Imam Ghazzali"

When I read the text above, there is one question that arises. Maybe this question is both silly and serious at the same time. But I have to ask myself (pun not intended) But where is the self located
What is it that tells me, that this is me?

Science would maybe say, Your notion of self is in your brain....But is it?
A Buddhist would maybe say. Your self do not exist, But doesn't it?
A Sufi would maybe say, Your self is an illusion, But is it?

What if I could find the link between the brain and the unseen world we call the spirit world? or the non-materalistic world?

Any thoughts about what self is?

(scientific and religious answers are both welcome)

We simply dont know. The first assumption these days is that 'sef' resides in the brain,
and not in the heart as once thought.
But though the brain does give us neuroogical capacity there's no guarantee our sense
of self resides there - maybe it's a function of the whole body, who knows.
We do know that you are still the same person after a heart transplant (sort of - the heart
has neurons too) and you can lose all four limbs and still be 'you.' You can even have half
your brain removed, either side, and still be 'you.' So it's peculiar.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Conscious thoughts think of this. If the soul or identity is separate from the brain (neurology) then if we have head trauma, go into a coma, or even have anesthesia our soul would not be dormant and dependent on the body to express itself. In other words, people in general anesthesia could tell you what happened if their self still is aware apart from the body. If someone is in a coma, if their soul is separate, should have some ability to communicate despite the limitation in consciousness.

Also, if our soul is apart from our body than it wouldn't have memories, experiences, relationships, and values that define as we age who we are. Yet memories of loved ones, spiritual awakenings, new love relationships, and life values don't exist in a vacuum. You pick them up in life and they become your soul.

If someone has a psychiatric disorder to where their sense of self is distorted, where's the soul that is not affected by this?

Some loved ones say that after their loved ones brain injury they became a different person. A lot of people define soul by behaviors. So, if our behaviors change after brain injury, is that who we are?

Maybe a good question is what makes up your identity?

 

[Nakosis]

"When after acquiring proficiency in these Sciences [traditional sciences], I turned my attention to the methods of the Sufis, I came to know that their method attains perfection by means of theory and practice. The gist of their knowledge is to mortify the self and acquire freedom from baser passions and evil attributes so that the heart may get rid of the thought of anything save God and to embellish it with Divine remembrance."

"Imam Ghazzali"

When I read the text above, there is one question that arises. Maybe this question is both silly and serious at the same time. But I have to ask myself (pun not intended) But where is the self located
What is it that tells me, that this is me?

Science would maybe say, Your notion of self is in your brain....But is it?
A Buddhist would maybe say. Your self do not exist, But doesn't it?
A Sufi would maybe say, Your self is an illusion, But is it?

What if I could find the link between the brain and the unseen world we call the spirit world? or the non-materalistic world?

Any thoughts about what self is?

(scientific and religious answers are both welcome)

IMO the self is the physical brain. We just don't identify with our brain because it's not what we see when we look in the mirror.

The self is somewhere inside... Well that's the brain. It's more the whole nervous system since this is where our internal feelings come from.

Say hello to your self