So Where is sHe now?

[Muffled]

Sunday morning at 5:00 as the day begins
Quietly closing her bedroom door, leaving the note that she hoped would say more,
She goes downstairs to the kitchen, clutching her handkerchief.
Quietly turning the back door key, stepping outside she is free...

I get up, get out of bed
pour my coffee
on my head

The Beatles would hate me, I think

 

[doppelganger]

That is a presuppostion that logos means language. Spiritual intelligence does not need words. In John, "Logos" which is translated as Word has a more encompassing meaning than just language.

This is correct. It had a rich tradition in Greek philosophy before the author(s) of "John" used it. And it's contemplation was a centerpiece of the Neo-Platonic philosophy that was clearly influential among Jewish-Greek synthesists (like Philo of Alexandria) at or a little before the time these stories were written.

 

[lunamoth]

I thought the bird was the word.

No, Grease is the word.

 

[Muffled]

But words are not meaningful unless they are a component of a language. "Goodbye" does not mean anything in German, for instance.

You may be talking about something different. In that case, can you please use a different term?

"All nature sings and 'round me rings the music of the spheres"

This is My Father's World, words by Maltbie B Babcock Page 6 of the Hymns for the Family of God in The PTL Club Special Edition.

 

[doppelganger]

No, Grease is the word.

Their lips are lyin' . . . only real is real.

 

[atanu]

Within yourself.

_/\_
Chinu

The word or sound is the language. It represents the manifestation of God and essentially encompasses all of manifest reality. It is everything.

Also, the 'beginning' only refers to the creation of the material universe. And it has infinite beginnings and infinite endings, a cycle that goes on and on...

Yes Chinu. But more.

Yes, Madhuri, the manifest Universe is Vac, the Word. Vac carries the meaning for all forms and names. A child is taught "That is a red apple", and that becomes the internal dialogue of the child. The internal dialog is the universe. A moment of existence without internal dialog will make the universe into nought. Adept sages do it consciously. We experience the same in our deep sleep.

 

[atanu]

And even before that, there had to be the inherent grammatical structure of ordered thought by which words could be placed into relationships, right?

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/theological-concepts/79751-making-panentheism-my-own.html

My regards.

 

[chinu]

Yes Chinu. But more.

Expencive question, so.. further to tell more -- there's some cost for it.

_/\_
Chinu

 

[Muffled]

Before posting further in this thread, i wished it to be moved to a DIR, as i felt the subject was not debate material. However, it seems that it is not possible at this stage. So we continue in this forum.
................................................

In Tantra, it is said that the Universe was set in motion by the primordial throb (adya-spanda) and that all objects of the Universe were created by sound – “artha-srsteh puram sabda-srstih” (sound precedes the formation of objects).

The universe is also confirmed to us as we each perceive it through internal dialogues. When the internal talk stops, the world disappears. This will be unbelievable to many but best we can do is compare with our deep sleep state, wherein there is no internal dialogue and no confirmation such as "Yes, the object 1 is like object 1" and no world.

So, in Veda, the Vak (the Word), which is said to be infinite and formless in the pure mind-space, and which divides into two and then three and then into many, is not only the spoken or heard word.

Rig Veda 1.164.45 “catvari vak parimita padani tani vidur brahmana ye minishinah, guha trini nihita neengayanti turiyam vaco manushya vadanti” (i.e. The knower know of the Vak that exists in four forms . Three are hidden and the fourth is what men speak) .
​

The rhythms of cosmic vibrations manifest as of four kinds (or rather in four stages of manifestation):

• Para-Vak is the highest form of sound. It orininates as Om and issues forth from the Supernal Ether (paramam vyomam) where all the sound vibrations that build the various worlds pre-exist in an undifferentiated state.
• Pashyanti is the sound vibration heard in the Causal worlds (equivalent is our sleep realm). Pashyanti is “seeing speech”. A sage whose consciousness abides in the causal sleep body is able to “glimpse” a Truth in a vision or a revelation. Knowledge is acquired in the inner mind by sight without the use of the reasoning faculty or sensory data.
• Madhyama (Middle)is the sound as perceived in the subtle or the Pranic world (as in our dream realm). These exist as thought-forms held in our mind.
• Vaikhari is the lowest form of sound and it signifies outward expression. This is the spoken word emerging from the our throat. We know this only as the Vak.

I like this better than throb.

Actually "om" is our attempt to vocalize the vibration. To the spiritual sense it is more like a "mmMMmmMM." I would liken it somewhat to an electronic device that has a hum in it but the universal "m" is not auditory by humans.

 

[atanu]

Rishi Dirghatma asks:

Rig Veda 1.164.04 Who has seen the primeval (being) at the time of his being born; what is that endowed with substance which the unsubstantial sustains; from earth are the breath and blood; but where is the soul; who may repair to the sage to ask this?
.......
1.164.34 I ask you, (institutor of the rite), what is the uttermost end of the earth; I ask you, where is the navel of the world. I ask you, what is the fecundating power of the rain-shedding steed; I ask you, what is the supreme heaven of (holy) speech.

1.164.35 This altar is the uttermost end of the earth; this sacrifice is the navel of the world; this Soma is the fecundating power of the rain-shedding steed; this Brahma_ is the supreme heaven of (holy) speech.
........
1.164.39 All the gods have taken their seats upon this supreme heaven, the imperishable (text) of the Veda; what will he, who knows not this, do with the Veda? but they who do know it, they are perfect.
1.164.40 Cow, may you be rich in milk through abundant fodder; that we also may be rich (in abundance); eat grass at all seasons, and, roaming (at will), drink pure water.
1.164.41 The sound has been uttered, fabricating the waters, and being one-footed, two-footed, four-footed, eight-footed, nine-footed, or infinite in the highest heaven.
1.164.42 From her the clouds shed abundant rain, and thence (the people of) the four quarters live; thence the moisture spreads (to the grain), and the universe exists.
-------------------------------------------

Rig Veda calls the Vac, Cow (gau) and gauri is the embodied vak.

 

[Jainarayan]

Nada Brahma. ... which means that the whole universe was created from the energy of sound - it's only the sound that exists in the beginning. - Nada Brahma & Indian Classical Music

Om.

 

[Muffled]

This is correct. It had a rich tradition in Greek philosophy before the author(s) of "John" used it. And it's contemplation was a centerpiece of the Neo-Platonic philosophy that was clearly influential among Jewish-Greek synthesists (like Philo of Alexandria) at or a little before the time these stories were written.

Although we can't really be sure what John was doing while in Asia before being exiled to Patmos, it is possible that he read Plato. However the question might well be did Plato influence john or did the Holy Spirit influence John's understanding of Plato in relation to Jesus? Or is it simply that Jesus knows Plato well and doesn't even need John to read it to get His message accross?

 

[doppelganger]

Although we can't really be sure what John was doing while in Asia before being exiled to Patmos, it is possible that he read Plato. However the question might well be did Plato influence john or did the Holy Spirit influence John's understanding of Plato in relation to Jesus? Or is it simply that Jesus knows Plato well and doesn't even need John to read it to get His message accross?

Well, I'm not personally convinced that the "John" of Christian tradition is the author of this work. The author(s) rather obviously wrote in a very sophisticated Greek and was (and of necessity would have had to have been been) familiar with the writings of Plato, Neo-Platonism, and as a Jewish-Greek synchretist, probably Philo as well.

 

[Muffled]

Nada Brahma. ... which means that the whole universe was created from the energy of sound - it's only the sound that exists in the beginning. - Nada Brahma & Indian Classical Music

Om.

That is putting the cart before the horse. the Om vibration only exists after the creation.

Of course there is a possiblity that ideation has a vibration of its own but it does not appear to automatically be a casusal vibration ie. not every thought of God would produce a physical manifestation. If it were true that every thought produced a physical manifestation, there would be no beginning because God has always had intelligence.

 

[Madhuri]

That is putting the cart before the horse. the Om vibration only exists after the creation.

Of course there is a possiblity that ideation has a vibration of its own but it does not appear to automatically be a casusal vibration ie. not every thought of God would produce a physical manifestation. If it were true that every thought produced a physical manifestation, there would be no beginning because God has always had intelligence.

Firstly, OM did not exists only after the creation. It is the cause of creation, so to speak. Or is creation itself.

Also, there truly is not beginning according to Vedic beliefs, since even the universe is created and destroyed, re-created and destroyed, re-created and destroyed etc. etc eternally.

 

[Madhuri]

Yes Chinu. But more.

Yes, Madhuri, the manifest Universe is Vac, the Word. Vac carries the meaning for all forms and names. A child is taught "That is a red apple", and that becomes the internal dialogue of the child. The internal dialog is the universe. A moment of existence without internal dialog will make the universe into nought. Adept sages do it consciously. We experience the same in our deep sleep.

I have experienced that in trance.

 

[Jainarayan]

That is putting the cart before the horse. the Om vibration only exists after the creation.

Om is the sound of the universe, and was the source of creation.

 

[Onkara]

I have experienced that in trance.

Why did you go into a trance? What was it like?

Have you come out of it? (that one's a Joke)

 

[Quagmire]

So Where is sHe now?




"Om just kicking back, watching the show"

 

[atanu]

So Where is sHe now?




"Om just kicking back, watching the show"

Kicking back? I wonder why these unsubstantial kicks, made of soft sounds, often appear mighty painful? (I am trying to trap you into divulging more of DWBHism).