IacobPersul said:
Who considered Joan of Arc to be a heretic? I thought she was an RC saint? She was a member of a church that we believe taught heresy so you could kind of make a case for her being a heretic from our point of view, but it would be a really flaky one because we don't really think of those who unwittingly follow heretical doctrines to be heretics.
(Oh, and I take it you mean Pelagius - he was condemned in Rome but found to be Orthodox by a council in the East so I don't really consider him a heretic, more a man whose theology went slightly too far to one extreme. The Pelagians, though, really went much further than their hero and they were heretics.)
James
http://www.groupprocessconsulting.com/flow/Joan.shtml
Joan of Arc Does Impatience Invite Disaster? As much as I'd like to...we can't ignore Joan of Arc. Burning at the stake for a cause seems a bit extreme. Plus... how can we ever find the real story? There are so many versions of her story - movies, plays, novels, even websites. There is an entire field of study called "Johannic studies." She is portrayed as a messenger from God, a great warrior, a leader, a crazy woman, and an innocent 19-year-old girl. The complexity of her story, with its contradictions might be the most important part. She is both wise and naïve, courageous and timid, believable and unbelievable, selfless and selfish...like most heretics I know. Although I must admit, I'm interested in her story for one main reason...what can I learn about not burning at the stake?
Apparently, Joan started hearing voices when she was 13 (1425). First it was St. Michael, and later St. Catherine and St Margaret. She said that the voices taught her "how to behave." She kept them secret from her family and her priest - she must have suspected that they wouldn't be too thrilled. Ultimately her voices demanded action. She was promised that "the king should have his kingdom again" and that "the saints would lead her to paradise." Feeling "chosen" endowed her with exceptional levels of self-confidence and a blind disregard for consequences. She was a woman on a mission from God. Her first stop was to convince de Boudricourt to escort her to see Charles - the disputed king. It took three tries but he finally agreed to send her with an escort. This is when she first donned men's clothing-- more comfortable and quite acceptable for women traveling (not so acceptable later when she refused to stop). Once she arrived at Chinon, she continued asking for an audience with King Charles until a letter from Boudricourt convinced Charles to agree. His reasons for seeing her might have been as simple as a desire for entertainment. An 18-year-old farm girl who wanted to tell him how to save his kingdom must have seemed a welcome distraction from news about lost battles.
How did she win him over, though? Charles had to have been hungry for good news. The Burgundians and the English were destroying his world. They were power-hungry and ruthless. When they briefly ruled Paris in 1412, the day-to-day administration was handled by the public executioner (an early French experiment in downsizing?) Charles own internal conflict about his parentage (King's son or *******?) didn't help his self-confidence much. He was getting trounced out there. Maybe Joan gave him self-confidence -- a precious gift. It remains a mystery how Joan won Charles over that day in March. There are several legends: that he disguised himself and she knew him anyway (the recent movie portrayed that one) she gave him a "treasure", she told him about secret thoughts that no one else could have suspected. Maybe he just wanted to believe. He was smart enough to have her questioned by a pack of priests in Poitiers.
Apparently she was o.k. (definitely a virgin, like that matters). Nothing has survived from that first interrogation. The transcripts from her next interrogation, trial, and rehabilitation are largely intact, but nothing remains from Poitiers. They gave her a chance. Orleans (under siege) seemed a lost cause and she was so convinced that she could save it...the decision of the court to sponsor her might well have originated with a collective "oh, why the hell not?" They equipped her with everything a knight needed - except a sword which she discovered for herself buried near an altar to St Catherine. Joan enjoyed not only men's clothing but men's weapons as well. Before she left, she sent an arrogant note to the English and Burgundians giving them a chance to give up before she arrived to "have them all killed." They scoffed. She bristled.
In her glorious suit of armor brandishing a white banner with a blue fleur-de-lis, she must have seemed a striking symbol of hope for the desperate and hungry troops. The generals who expected her to be no more than a pretty symbol, learned different when she scolded them for ignoring her military tactical directions. She told them, "The Lord's advice is surer and wiser than yours!" She did not suffer their foolishness. That first day of failure (proof of what happens when you don't listen to Joan) was followed by victory once the soldiers began following her orders. On that first successful day, even the wind seemed to obey Joan's directives and moved ships aside to allow opportunities for Joan's triumph. This miraculous victory launched an external reputation that began to equal her internal image as the "daughter of God."
She threw her weight around, went where she wanted, called the shots and won more battles than seemed possible. At least, she was present at battles won by the troops. Was she taking orders from the Ultimate General? Or could it be that disheartened soldiers simply found new energy and courage when they heard a maid of God openly threatening the English in writing? Did it stir their courage to hear this young maid, impatient to remain still and wait for a reply, proceed to get into a shouting match across the lines? Joan yelled that the English better do God's will, save their skins, and go home even as the English yelled back colorful descriptions of how they would burn her when they captured her.
During that first week in May, her victory in Orleans proved to the French that she was indeed sent from God and to the English she was indeed a witch. The English assumed that she must have cast a spell that sucked the courage right out of their previously reliable English soldiers. She, "withdrowe the courage of the remenant in merveillous wyse." The victories continued - once a week during June. Joan either prophesized these victories or led them. All we can say for sure is that she was there.
Being driven, Joan loved fast action. She was impatient. This was a sure factor in the speed of her success. The first of her promises came true within six weeks. But, it was not such good a thing for Charles, who was reluctant to move as fast or as forcefully as Joan wanted. From the beginning, Charles kept his distance. She didn't seem to notice. She wanted him to be anointed by the holy oils in Rheims to cement his kingship over France. She told Charles she would bring him there "either by love or by force." And by God she did. His anointing in Rheims was the high point for her. It was July. She had fulfilled her goals and she was ready to go home. All Charles had left to do was recapture Paris.
The only problem was that Charles wanted to go home too. I guess he 'didn't know nuthin 'bout capturing no cities.' Exasperated, Joan stayed. She goaded him towards Paris. Instead, he withdrew. By September he had disbanded his army. She was granted the position of second-in-charge of a small, meagerly provisioned army, and fought through the winter. Joan must have been disgusted with the lack of courage and ineptitude of "senior management." Time ticked away, Joan's impatience pushed her to try to recapture Paris, an aggressive move. When proposals for a truce were offered, Joan rejected them.
