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So why the non interventionist policy on the part of god?

arcanum

Active Member
Seriously, why does god choose to just observe from afar and not intervene in this insane creation of his? All this confusion, all the people from different faiths thinking the others are just deluded and lost....and not a peep from the one who created this mess to clear this whole thing up. Why? It could be cleared up right quick couldn't it? if he decided to intervene and just say say hold up children...here is how it is and here is how it isn't, this is the truth. At least most of us had parents that could do that for us, but not so with god. I was raised with a strong faith growing up, but as I get older and more world worn, and seeing how much craziness and confusion is going on in this world, it makes me ask if there really is a god in control of this mad mad world, or are we are just left to our own crazy devices. I sometimes ask this question: if there is a god, all knowing and all powerful, and I have always believed there was, is this really the best he could do?
 
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Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Or He could involved in unseen ways. He seems to have His own ways. Since you can’t see His hand, and if you accept that He has good reasons to keep some things hidden, then logically doesn’t that suggest He wants you to do the good you think He should be openly doing?
 

arcanum

Active Member
Or He could involved in unseen ways. He seems to have His own ways. Since you can’t see His hand, and if you accept that He has good reasons to keep some things hidden, then logically doesn’t that suggest He wants you to do the good you think He should be openly doing?
Ok well that is what I've pretty much believed since a youth, but I'm now no longer young. God's ways are not our ways or god's ways are mysterious ways are what I've always been taught and believed. I don't want to doubt god, but I've been disappointed, and sometimes even credulous. Lately I'm thinking the world is in such bad shape and in need of guidance and clarity, I have to ask....where the hell is god?
 

Axe Elf

Prophet
Have you asked Him?

From my perspective (which obviously carries less weight than His), I can't understand why He would want to intervene, when He's made the best of all possible worlds in the first place.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Seriously, why does god choose to just observe from afar and not intervene in this insane creation of his? All this confusion, all the people from different faiths thinking the others are just deluded and lost....and not a peep from the one who created this mess to clear this whole thing up. Why? It could be cleared up right quick couldn't it? if he decided to intervene and just say say hold up children...here is how it is and here is how it isn't, this is the truth. At least most of us had parents that could do that for us, but not so with god. I was raised with a strong faith growing up, but as I get older and more world worn, and seeing how much craziness and confusion is going on in this world, it makes me ask if there really is a god in control of this mad mad world, or are we are just left to our own crazy devices. I sometimes ask this question: if there is a god, all knowing and all powerful, and I have always believed there was, is this really the best he could do?
When you think about it.

A person would actually need an actual God in order for a God to intervene.

For inexplicable reasons it simply just doesn't or won't dawn on a lot of people that in all actuality, there just isn't really any god there to even begin with in the first place.

Relying on a mentally generated puppet labeled "God" of which remains blind deaf and mute with an inability to do anything to address problems and issues simply isn't going to cut the cake. ;0)
 

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
Epicurus had the following to offer on this question, which is one possible explanation:

A blessed and indestructible being has no trouble within itself and brings no trouble on any other being. It is entirely free from all movements of partiality or anger, for all such things imply weakness- Principle Doctrines
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Ok well that is what I've pretty much believed since a youth, but I'm now no longer young. God's ways are not our ways or god's ways are mysterious ways are what I've always been taught and believed. I don't want to doubt god, but I've been disappointed, and sometimes even credulous. Lately I'm thinking the world is in such bad shape and in need of guidance and clarity, I have to ask....where the hell is god?
Doubt is part and parcel of humanity. I don’t think you will find the answer of where God is on the internet, but in your own heart through wrestling with your doubts. Answers are less important than the struggle to find the answers. Instead of asking where the hell God is, why not ask where the hell are we? God is where He has always been. Are we moving towards Him or away?
 

arcanum

Active Member
I've heard quite a few different responses to my question, on and off forum, and nothing is really convincing. Aside from maybe the atheistic one, and I really don't want to become an atheist....I want to believe, like the old X files slogan put it, although in a different context.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Seriously, why does god choose to just observe from afar and not intervene in this insane creation of his? All this confusion, all the people from different faiths thinking the others are just deluded and lost....and not a peep from the one who created this mess to clear this whole thing up. Why? It could be cleared up right quick couldn't it? if he decided to intervene and just say say hold up children...here is how it is and here is how it isn't, this is the truth. At least most of us had parents that could do that for us, but not so with god. I was raised with a strong faith growing up, but as I get older and more world worn, and seeing how much craziness and confusion is going on in this world, it makes me ask if there really is a god in control of this mad mad world, or are we are just left to our own crazy devices. I sometimes ask this question: if there is a god, all knowing and all powerful, and I have always believed there was, is this really the best he could do?
As a pantheist, I think the whole purpose of creation is the long path of us eventually figuring all that out ourselves. Much more satisfying for the individual than being handed a rule book to read and follow.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I don't believe there is a God controlling everything. Actually I think the Gods are ultimately at the mercy of Fate. Just because you don't think a God is controlling everything doesn't mean you have to be an atheist.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
You're asking corporeal beings to infer some wisdom on why God does not intervene....Well, how about asking him yourself? I think its arrogant to infer on the reason why God does this or that.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I've heard quite a few different responses to my question, on and off forum, and nothing is really convincing. Aside from maybe the atheistic one, and I really don't want to become an atheist....I want to believe, like the old X files slogan put it, although in a different context.

Have you ever explored the big picture rather than just concentrating on a few details? What possible reason could there be for God to stand back and watch the world implode like it is?
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Consider the issues raised in Eden.....God's creation finishes with man, who is then appointed as a caretaker for all the rest. He has his every need met abundantly by a generous and loving Creator, who has never lied to him or treated him with anything but love. There was a single tree in a huge garden filled with fruit trees, all producing much variety of food and flavors ...only this one tree was off limits....the one tree that God said was his. No hardship was imposed by the tree being there, because all the fruit that they could ever need was supplied, along with everything else that promoted peace and security for them.

They had no enemies and there were Cherubs appointed to stand guard making sure that no harm came to them. They then had instructions to "fill the earth" with their kind, and extend the borders of their paradise home to cover the whole planet. Can you see any reason why the humans would rebel against their Creator and steal from him something that he told them not to touch under penalty of death? Wasn't the penalty alone serious enough to make them want to leave it alone?

So what happened? One of the guardians was harboring aspirations of being a god himself, envying the worship that God would receive from these humans. The only way he could gain worship was by lying to them about God. He waited for his opportunity when the less experienced of the two was alone.....he deceived her, telling her than God was a liar who had bad motives in keeping that one fruit to himself.....and as a result she ate of the forbidden fruit imagining that it would benefit her.

When Adam saw what she had done and she offered him the fruit also, what were his choices? Obey God and lose his wife? Or obey his wife and lose his life? They were told that they would die within the day that they ate.....so why didn't they? Why did God allow them to fulfill the first part of his mandate to "be fruitful and become many"? They had become defective now due to sin, and had only this imperfection to pass on to all their offspring. The earth is now filled with sinful humans making a mess of everything....so why did God permit it?

Imagine that you are a teacher in a classroom full of students and one of your students stood up in front of the whole class and called you a liar and said that what you taught was rubbish? Would you expel him? You would be within your rights to do so...but if you did not defend your position, wouldn't the other students wonder if he was right? Would another student and then another, use this one's accusations to keep repeating the charge? What would be the best way to settle the issue once and for all? Wouldn't it be to allow the student, with no intervention from the teacher, to prove his accusations were true?

In Eden, that is exactly what God did. The usurper, satan the devil, wanted to be a god to humankind and the humans had accepted that what he said was true. So God granted him time and ample opportunity to prove that he was the better god and ruler of the human race. He gave him an allotted time....but universal time is not earth time. According to the apostle Peter "a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" to God. (2 Peter 3:8) So time is a factor in this for us earthlings. Interestingly not one human has lived longer than a "day" in God's counting of time....so the humans did die in the "day" they ate the fruit.

Secondly, any intervention by God to interfere with the devil's agenda would make what the devil was doing appear to be good. So only on rare occasions did God intervene and only to keep his original purpose on track.

We are living in an object lesson, because written or spoken laws can be ignored, just as they were in Eden and just as they were with the nation of Israel. If humans had just obeyed God in the beginning, nothing bad would ever have happened to anyone. And if the Jews had obeyed God's laws given through Moses, we would have a written record of their blessings instead of their punishments. Do you see what God has done? He has created an historical account of what happens when humans obey him and what happens when they don't. This then creates precedents that will apply for all time to come. No rebel will ever be able to raise himself up against God ever again, ensuring that eternity will be trouble free and free will is preserved as the gift it was meant to be.
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Only those who see the big picture will understand why God has done things this way. Had he disposed of the rebels in the beginning, there was nothing to stop other free willed beings from following the same path. This way we see firsthand what happens when both angels and humans try to do things their way....independently of their Creator and in opposition to his reasonable commands. It only ends in disaster!

The Bible indicates that soon the lesson will be over, and all will return to the conditions that God first set up in Eden. (Isaiah 55:11; Revelation 21:2-4)

There are good reasons for everything if we just look in the Bible and read what it says, rather than skimming over what we think it says.
happy0062.gif
God knows what he's doing.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Seriously, why does god choose to just observe from afar and not intervene in this insane creation of his? All this confusion, all the people from different faiths thinking the others are just deluded and lost....and not a peep from the one who created this mess to clear this whole thing up. Why?
God did intervene when He sent a Messenger as His Representative in the 19th century, to clean up the mess the older religions made in the kitchen. That was promised in Daniel 12:

Daniel Chapter 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Everything has been cleared up now, it is crystal clear, but most people have rejected God’s new Messenger, Baha’u’llah, who came to bring that message. The reason why they have rejected Him is because they are emotionally attached to their older religions or, if they are nonbelievers they want a personal message from God rather than a Messenger God sent. But that’s just too bad, because God does not communicate directly with anyone except His Chosen Messengers.
It could be cleared up right quick couldn't it? if he decided to intervene and just say hold up children...here is how it is and here is how it isn't, this is the truth.
All the confusion was cleared up pretty quick when Baha’u’llah came and wrote over 15,000 Tablets explaining what the problems are in the present world and prescribing a remedy for their cure, revealing everything we need to know in this New Age of mankind; but most everyone turned away from Him but a few numbered souls... Christians are STILL waiting for Jesus, Jews are waiting for their Messiah, Muslims are waiting for their Mahdi, but theya re waiting for a ship that is not going to come in because Baha’u’llah was the Promised One of All ages that fulfilled all their prophecies.... it is as clear as the noonday sun in Arizona. All one has to do is research His claim for themselves to find out it is the truth from God for this day.
At least most of us had parents that could do that for us, but not so with god. I was raised with a strong faith growing up, but as I get older and more world worn, and seeing how much craziness and confusion is going on in this world, it makes me ask if there really is a god in control of this mad mad world, or are we are just left to our own crazy devices. I sometimes ask this question: if there is a god, all knowing and all powerful, and I have always believed there was, is this really the best he could do?
God did a darn good job when He sent Baha’u’llah to redeem all of humanity... What more do people expect from God?

If you want any more information about this please feel free to ask me.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
You're asking corporeal beings to infer some wisdom on why God does not intervene....Well, how about asking him yourself? I think its arrogant to infer on the reason why God does this or that.

But many religions seem to know the mind of God, otherwise they wouldn't have some such beliefs or other.
 
Seriously, why does god choose to just observe from afar and not intervene in this insane creation of his? All this confusion, all the people from different faiths thinking the others are just deluded and lost....and not a peep from the one who created this mess to clear this whole thing up. Why? It could be cleared up right quick couldn't it? if he decided to intervene and just say say hold up children...here is how it is and here is how it isn't, this is the truth. At least most of us had parents that could do that for us, but not so with god. I was raised with a strong faith growing up, but as I get older and more world worn, and seeing how much craziness and confusion is going on in this world, it makes me ask if there really is a god in control of this mad mad world, or are we are just left to our own crazy devices. I sometimes ask this question: if there is a god, all knowing and all powerful, and I have always believed there was, is this really the best he could do?

What if this is what God wants? Could we really argue against it then? But then again there is no real answer that will make you happy unless you go and find it for yourself.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
if there is a god, all knowing and all powerful, and I have always believed there was, is this really the best he could do?
I've started to appreciate the older ways of thinking about gods, where they weren't omnimax and had limited spheres of influence.

It better fits reality, doesn't it?

Lately I'm thinking the world is in such bad shape and in need of guidance and clarity, I have to ask....where the hell is god?
Yahweh and Baal were seasonal gods. Each would try to kill the other and the "death" of One would explain various related natural problems until They woke back up next year.

Anyway, I tend to view the universe as God's Body, so to speak. Just as we aren't aware of the actions of every single cell (unless you are WAAAAAY better at biofeedback than I am), God isn't necessarily aware of everything going on in the "microcosm".
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
Seriously, why does god choose to just observe from afar and not intervene in this insane creation of his? All this confusion, all the people from different faiths thinking the others are just deluded and lost....and not a peep from the one who created this mess to clear this whole thing up. Why? It could be cleared up right quick couldn't it? if he decided to intervene and just say say hold up children...here is how it is and here is how it isn't, this is the truth. At least most of us had parents that could do that for us, but not so with god. I was raised with a strong faith growing up, but as I get older and more world worn, and seeing how much craziness and confusion is going on in this world, it makes me ask if there really is a god in control of this mad mad world, or are we are just left to our own crazy devices. I sometimes ask this question: if there is a god, all knowing and all powerful, and I have always believed there was, is this really the best he could do?
God has done a lot of clearing up of the truth, but not in an open way. Islam was a clarification of Christianity, the Babi religion was a clarification of the truth of Islam, and the Baha'i Faith is a clarification of all these faiths. But God wants us to search for the truth, He doesn't just give it to us.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
God did intervene when He sent a Messenger as His Representative in the 19th century, to clean up the mess the older religions made in the kitchen. That was promised in Daniel 12:

Daniel Chapter 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Everything has been cleared up now, it is crystal clear, but most people have rejected God’s new Messenger, Baha’u’llah, who came to bring that message. The reason why they have rejected Him is because they are emotionally attached to their older religions or, if they are nonbelievers they want a personal message from God rather than a Messenger God sent. But that’s just too bad, because God does not communicate directly with anyone except His Chosen Messengers.

All the confusion was cleared up pretty quick when Baha’u’llah came and wrote over 15,000 Tablets explaining what the problems are in the present world and prescribing a remedy for their cure, revealing everything we need to know in this New Age of mankind; but most everyone turned away from Him but a few numbered souls... Christians are STILL waiting for Jesus, Jews are waiting for their Messiah, Muslims are waiting for their Mahdi, but theya re waiting for a ship that is not going to come in because Baha’u’llah was the Promised One of All ages that fulfilled all their prophecies.... it is as clear as the noonday sun in Arizona. All one has to do is research His claim for themselves to find out it is the truth from God for this day.

God did a darn good job when He sent Baha’u’llah to redeem all of humanity... What more do people expect from God?

If you want any more information about this please feel free to ask me.
Nice to see you here, even if it is just a little bit. I answered the question the way you did, though with fewer words.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Nice to see you here, even if it is just a little bit. I answered the question the way you did, though with fewer words.
Thanks Duane... I liked your answer. You always sum things up so well. I am trying to do some posts on here, just a couple of threads, but I am mostly on BUE because I have an audience of one at this time and everyone else is being pretty civil...:) That could be time-limited, we'll see. :oops:
 
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