Some Hope For Better Justice

[Wu Wei]

While autonomous 18 wheelers might be currently more
dangerous than human driven ones, if they eventually
become safer in the future, then they'll be an improvement
worth adopting, imperfection notwithstanding.

Btw, I don't see how AI legal judgments are "abuse".

Quoting Voltaire's "Zen In The Computing Arts".....

"Perfection is the enemy of progress."
I took some liberties with the quote & source.

OK, so I said a few posts ago, we don't agree, and I'm ok with that. I also said that changing your mind or mind was not going to happen.....this leaves me with a question......so....tilt at windmills much to ya

OK, promised response...but I have to admit, I lied....although Bruce Lee is quoted, the original quote of this concept came from Sterling Silliphant

From the book - Zen in the Martial Arts by Joe Hyams


Chapter Title “Do Not Disturb”

This is from a conversation between Joe Hyams, Sterling Silliphant and Bruce Lee

On one such occasion we talked about the difference between wasting time and spending time. Bruce was the first to speak.

“To spend time is to pass it in a specific manner” he said. “We are spending it during lessons just as we are spending it now in conversation. To waste time is to expend it thoughtlessly or carelessly. We all have time to either spend or waste and it is our decision what to do with it. But once passed, it is gone forever.

“It is the most precious commodity we have, “agreed Sterling. “I always view my time as divided into infinite moments or transactions or contacts. Anyone who steals my time is stealing my life because they are taking my existence from me. As I get older, I realize that time is the only thing I have left. So when someone comes to me with a project, I estimate the time it will take me to do it and then ask myself, ‘Do I want to spend weeks or months of what little time I have on this project? Is it worth it or is it wasting my time?’ If I consider the project time-worthy I do it.

“I apply this same yardstick to my social relations. I will not permit people to steal my time. I have limited my friends to those people with whom time passes happily. There are moments in my life - necessary moments - when I don’t do anything but what is my choice. The choice of how I spend my time is mine, and it is not dictated by social convention”

After Sterling finished talking, Bruce looked into space for a few moments. When he finally spoke, it was to ask if he could make a telephone call.

When he came back, Bruce was smiling. “I just cancelled an appointment.” he said. “It was with someone who wanted to waste my time and not help me spend it”

So...“I'm cancelling this "discussion" because you appear to want to waste my time and not help me spend it....

Spinning my wheels going no where and being one of the the great keyboard warriors of anonymity has little interest to me…besides…..I have to be serious and avoid abusing others out here in the serious parts of RF

 

[Revoltingest]

OK, so I said a few posts ago, we don't agree, and I'm ok with that. I also said that changing your mind or mind was not going to happen.....this leaves me with a question......so....tilt at windmills much to ya

OK, promised response...but I have to admit, I lied....although Bruce Lee is quoted, the original quote of this concept came from Sterling Silliphant



So...“I'm cancelling this "discussion" because you appear to want to waste my time and not help me spend it....

Spinning my wheels going no where and being one of the the great keyboard warriors of anonymity has little interest to me…besides…..I have to be serious and avoid abusing others out here in the serious parts of RF

I am completely mystified by this response.
In pain?

 

[Wu Wei]

I am completely mystified by this response.
In pain?

Good, glad you're mystified...although I have no idea why.....and there is no pain...mostly boredom........but you are getting close to me bring out Dieter.....I'll do it....I'm warning you....I'm a bear on the edge.....

 

[Revoltingest]

Good, glad you're mystified...although I have no idea why.....and there is no pain...mostly boredom........but you are getting close to me bring out Dieter.....I'll do it....I'm warning you....I'm a bear on the edge.....

This should calm you....

 

[Revoltingest]

I can just see the "hacker for hire" ads: "We promise you a positive outcome. Pay 50% now and 50% when you win".

Typically, when a judge rules on a case, they present
their reasoning & the evidence it's based upon.
Certainly, AI judges would be able to provide the same.
Both sides would be able to analyze it, & decide whether
an appeal is warranted. A hack that messed with case
law, reasoning, or evidence would be evident.

Note that human judges can be hacked by bribery & threat.
If you're a fan of Mister Robot, you observe that computer
hacking often involves such human vulnerabilities.

 

[Wu Wei]

This should calm you....

You're getting like Mrs Wu....how you get the absolute opposite meaning out of what I am saying....I have no idea..
Maybe if you listen to this you see that I am not in the least upset...just bored

And now.....

 

[Revoltingest]

You're getting like Mrs Wu...

I'm not ready to stick needles in you, nor will I cuddle.

 

[exchemist]

I don't see how it's a left v right issue.

They can do their job better.
You don't oppose better cheaper justice, do you?

This article is written by the man who was the Conservative justice minister in Theresa May's government: When it attacks 'lefty lawyers', this government takes aim at the rule of law | David Gauke..

That is what I am talking about. I think he is dead right in everything he says.

Undermining the law has been a preoccupation of Trump, too, whether it be by his drive to appoint judges sharing his politics, or getting the Justice Dept run by a lackey of his to do him personal favours. True, Trump's approach is corruption rather than political attacks, but the end is still the undermining of a crucial independent check on executive power.

 

[Revoltingest]

This article is written by the man who was the Conservative justice minister in Theresa May's government: When it attacks 'lefty lawyers', this government takes aim at the rule of law | David Gauke..

I think he is dead right in everything he says.

Could be.
But I'll not make it a left v right issue.

 

[Wu Wei]

I'm not ready to stick needles in you, nor will I cuddle.

Well that's a relief.... I don't swing that way fella......

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In the news....
Robot judges that determine guilt or innocence will be 'commonplace in 50 years'
Excerpted.....
Robot judges that can determine guilt or innocence will be commonplace in the English legal system within 50 years, experts have claimed.

Scientists say the the bots will be able to conclude whether someone is guilty or innocent with a 99% accuracy rate by analysing body language.

One believes the physical and psychological signs of dishonesty will be identified using an array of cameras.

Signs that signal “wrongdoing or probable falsehoods” could include irregular speech patters, an increase in body temperature and hand and eye movements.
:
:
AI judges in Estonia are being considered to clear court backlogs by adjudicating in small claims of up to £7,000.

Two opposing parties will upload documents to support their claims and AI tech will analyse these submissions and issue a decision.

If either party is dissatisfied with the outcome, they can appeal the decision to a human judge.

Reminds me of those dickweed cops who assumed guilt of me because my Aspie traits. Facial recognition that sucks at recognizing faces. GPS directions doing some whacky, wonky stuff that makes no sense.

 

[Revoltingest]

Reminds me of those dickweed cops who assumed guilt of me because my Aspie traits. Facial recognition that sucks at recognizing faces. GPS directions doing some whacky, wonky stuff that makes no sense.

Have you ever had a human navigator?
Those things are the pits.
I travel with a GPS.

 

[exchemist]

Reminds me of those dickweed cops who assumed guilt of me because my Aspie traits. Facial recognition that sucks at recognizing faces. GPS directions doing some whacky, wonky stuff that makes no sense.

Off-topic, but I didn't know you were Aspie. That's useful for me to know. I'll try to remember.

 

[exchemist]

Have you ever had a human navigator?
Those things are the pits.
I travel with a GPS.

I do not use GPS. I use a map - and sometimes enlist the help of my son if he's with me. I almost never get lost.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Have you ever had a human navigator?
Those things are the pits.
I travel with a GPS.

I have yet to have a human navigator try to send me the wrong way through a one way. Although, one of my best human navigators most the time fails to tell you when to turn until your passing by the turn you was supposed to make.
I'd prefer a map. I got to the point I didn't use the GPS for driving rideshare. Because they aren't that good unless you don't know where you going. Then they can be awesome. Especially if you get lost.

 

[exchemist]

I have yet to have a human navigator try to send me the wrong way through a one way. Although, one of my best human navigators most the time fails to tell you when to turn until your passing by the turn you was supposed to make.
I'd prefer a map. I got to the point I didn't use the GPS for driving rideshare. Because they aren't that good unless you don't know where you going. Then they can be awesome. Especially if you get lost.

Yes I like maps because they give me sense of where I am, rather than just following instructions blindly, from a machine.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes I like maps because they give me sense of where I am, rather than just following instructions blindly, from a machine.

I think the only times I was thankful to have a GPS is when I was driving for the railroads and was all over Indiana and it's four neighboring states (and in lot's of very isolated parts to drop off/pick up crews out in the middle of nowhere), and when I first moved here getting around Bakersfield which is gigantic to me then, and especially the LA area where it still seems like an ocean of concrete though I'm better at finding my way around.
Other than that give me a map. Long distance, short distance, and especially detours, nothing beats a map in front of you.

 

[Revoltingest]

I do not use GPS. I use a map - and sometimes enlist the help of my son if he's with me. I almost never get lost.

Your son won't navigate for me.
Traveling alone, maps aren't useful.
(Can't read'm while driving.)

Now, stop debating in this discussion only forum.
You've had your run.

 

[Watchmen]

We humans aren't yet smart enough to realize that the current system of justice is as dumb as dirt. So, I don't like our chances of inventing a machine that does it better.

Just curious. Why do you think the current system is “dumb as dirt?”

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm not so optimistic about AI judges as evaluators of truthfulness.
What interests me is the latter part of the article, ie, having
AI evaluate the law, procedures, & merits of the cases.
In my experience, tort disputes (civil) are messy, lengthy,
costly, bias laden, prone to error, & ripe for extortion by
savvy abusers of the system.

I've always found the manner of determining lying problematic.
Irregular speech patters, an increase in body temperature and hand and eye movements? I had a major increase in body temperature when buying my wife's engagement ring. I was nervous, and found one shop I went into problematic as they belittled me and tried to talk me into bringing my soon-to-be fiance with me to pick out a ring. Whereas I wanted to surprise her.

I was literally sweating bullets...err...in a figurative sense. Ahem.

Now that I'm older, if put in the exact same situation, I'd find the whole thing amusing, and would probably string the shopkeeper along for a while by deliberately choosing particularly cheap and nasty rings to consider.

My point being that my nerves were much more tied to my youth, and inability to step out of a given situation than they were to the reality of the situation itself.