Some issues with internet pornography

[Mock Turtle]

Humans have been creating and enjoying porn (and engaging in and using prostitution) throughout recorded history. There's porn on Sumerian pottery 2,000 and more years ago, and on Greek and Roman and Mesopotamian pottery, walls, floors -- you name it. There are whole temples in India decorated lavishly with most explicity statuary. Heavens, the Mesopotamians even had a goddess of sex and prostitution, Inanna.

Pornography has existed throughout recorded history and has adapted to each new medium, including photography, cinema, video, and computers and the internet. The first amendment prohibits the U.S. government from restricting speech based on its content. Indecent speech is protected and may be regulated, but not banned. Obscenity is the judicially recognized exception to the first amendment. Historically, this exception was used in an attempt to ban information about sex education, studies on nudism, and sexually explicit literature. I hope that even you will accept that this is just sad!

I think you are missing the bit about imitation, as to being realistic and often now enhanced by AI, given that this was never likely a consideration long ago and therefore such comparisons are a bit off. It is the effects arising from what is possible now that can be an issue, and as to the extent, with such possibly ruining lives.

Though some specific sex acts were regulated or prohibited by earlier laws, merely looking at objects or images depicting them was not outlawed in any country until 1857. When large-scale excavations of Pompeii were undertaken in the 1860s, much of the erotic art of the Romans came to light, shocking the Victorians who saw themselves as the intellectual heirs of the Roman Empire. They did not know what to do with the frank depictions of sexuality, and endeavored to hide them away from everyone but upper-class scholars. The movable objects were locked away in the Secret Museum of Naples, and what could not be removed was covered and cordoned off so as to not corrupt the sensibilities of women, children and the working class. The Victorians were so shocked at some of the wall paintings in In some cases, the possession of certain books, engravings or image collections was outlawed, but the trend to compose laws that actually restricted viewing sexually explicit things in general was a Victorian construct, which we have happily gotten over.

Did you actually read all the quotes or articles cited, and if so do you think these somehow compare with the past?

 

[Mock Turtle]

On abuse and porn and not knowing if the folk can consent in it or are old enough to be having sex...There are sites that focus on ethical porn. I've seen a few. But those sites usually are paid for sites. So that the actors can be paid properly and because paying the actors well means they can focus on verifying the ages in order to pay them. These sites also typically are more diverse and keep in mind that women may want to view porn not just men. There's also a lot of focus on realism in some of these sites often silly little things that are unintentional that happen in the videos aren't editted out.

Many years ago I did actually join one or two paysites - only for a month or so - but unfortunately I found it rather easy to locate for free what was on offer - and mostly just being explicit glamour images. Now, mostly all is available free.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I think you are missing the bit about imitation, as to being realistic and often now enhanced by AI, given that this was never likely a consideration long ago and therefore such comparisons are a bit off. It is the effects arising from what is possible now that can be an issue, and as to the extent, with such possibly ruining lives.

But surely this is not only true of porn, but lots else, as well. Especially, I think, the arts, where AI can can replace one face with another, rapidly imitate a style, and so forth. And in private life, what's to stop a man who wants a divorce using AI to put his wife seemingly into a compromising situation? It's the technology that's the problem, not just a single use of it. And as yet, we haven't got protections against it.

Did you actually read all the quotes or articles cited, and if so do you think these somehow compare with the past?

Yes, I read them, and I am aware of some of the dangers mentioned. But we humans can get innured or used to almost anything, to the point that our addictions need more and more stimuli. We can, of course, try to ban it all, with threats of jail or other punishment, but I think we've learned something by now about how well that tends to work. What we wind up with is a whole bunch of people, still addicted, but living off the public's dime in prison. History has demonstrated most clearly that banning commodities desired by the public (see Prohibition) simply leads to more underground commerce, leading to loss of taxable revenue and more man-years in prisons.

Surely a healhier way forward is quality, early education. Well-informed young people are better armed against all manner of ills.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I have found that to criticize porn or prostitution in any way on ths site tends to bring of a very active knee-jerk army of defenders claiming it's all harmless fun that every adult should be allowed to purchase/participate in it ... mostly because hedonism and profiteering trumps all other moral standards or criteria.

The sexual part of all of this stuff never bothered me (so long as it's adult and consenting) it's when the money comes into it that all the damage happens. But it's the money part of it that drives most people to defend it as some form of "freedom". And there is no moving them off this idiocy.

When you look at all the money of Internet that's and what they make per month from monetized adult channels and such, hell if I was a woman , I'd be shaking my boobies and *** all over the place , and live in a life of luxury without barely a lick of work for it.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Many years ago I did actually join one or two paysites - only for a month or so - but unfortunately I found it rather easy to locate for free what was on offer - and mostly just being explicit glamour images. Now, mostly all is available free.

That's because a lot of them are sponsored, and/ or they get donations , which keeps it free because when it's free you get more viewers and they send more money for it as opposed to subscriptions with a closed audience.

Hell, some even profited off selling the stinky bathwater they bathed in.

 

[VoidCat]

When you look at all the money of Internet that's and what they make per month from monetized adult channels and such, hell if I was a woman , I'd be shaking my boobies and *** all over the place , and live in a life of luxury without barely a lick of work for it.

Lol porn work is actually very difficult. Its a full time job. You have to market yourself. I know this from talking to actual sex workers. It's actually very difficult you have to figure out your audience(do you want to draw in more kinkier folk and such is there a niche you thinking of doing?) Often not only do you have to make vids you also have to talk to your audience. If you do OF theres often an option to message the OF content creator. You make more money allowing this messaging and doing personalized stuff. Its a lot of work. It's not like having sex without any planning a lot of the times you have to pay attention to the angles of the camera, may have to depending on what site you on edit stuff, fake some things(like make it look like there's more cum then there is for example), figure out what your audience like(are folk more drawn when you do a specific niche), analytics, understanding your boundaries and planning scenes...etc

You can make all the content you want but you got to be able to stand out from other creators to make money. It's a full time business. You cant just make one or two vids and be rolling in dough. You would have to upload regularly and market yourself

 

[Twilight Hue]

Lol porn work is actually very difficult. Its a full time job. You have to market yourself. I know this from talking to actual sex workers. It's actually very difficult you have to figure out your audience(do you want to draw in more kinkier folk and such is there a niche you thinking of doing?) Often not only do you have to make vids you also have to talk to your audience. If you do OF theres often an option to message the OF content creator. You make more money allowing this messaging and doing personalized stuff. Its a lot of work. It's not like having sex without any planning a lot of the times you have to pay attention to the angles of the camera, may have to depending on what site you on edit stuff, fake some things(like make it look like there's more cum then there is for example), figure out what your audience like(are folk more drawn when you do a specific niche), analytics, understanding your boundaries and planning scenes...etc

You can make all the content you want but you got to be able to stand out from other creators to make money. It's a full time business. You cant just make one or two vids and be rolling in dough. You would have to upload regularly and market yourself

Maybe produced video but most don't even require talent or any type of work whatsoever aside from knowing how to monetize and where the camera is set up.

 

[VoidCat]

Maybe produced video but most don't even require talent or any type of work whatsoever aside from knowing how to monetize and where the camera is set up.

Lol...it actually requires a lot of talent and work. A lot.

There are 1000s of vids out there. Tons of creators. To be successful you have to make yourself stand out

 

[Shaul]

Pornography serves no redeeming purpose. Its users are also victims.

 

[Mock Turtle]

That's because a lot of them are sponsored, and/ or they get donations , which keeps it free because when it's free you get more viewers and they send more money for it as opposed to subscriptions with a closed audience.

Hell, some even profited off selling the stinky bathwater they bathed in.

Well for me at least, it is not an issue particularly, apart from the factor of adequate pay being necessary - as @VoidCat pointed out - but more about access (as to age), and not even about content, given I do believe in certain freedoms even if I myself am less inclined to ever want to view much of what is available.

 

[Mock Turtle]

But surely this is not only true of porn, but lots else, as well. Especially, I think, the arts, where AI can can replace one face with another, rapidly imitate a style, and so forth. And in private life, what's to stop a man who wants a divorce using AI to put his wife seemingly into a compromising situation? It's the technology that's the problem, not just a single use of it. And as yet, we haven't got protections against it.

Well I agree that technology is one of the main issues, and Social Media being one important driver of damage to individuals, but it is the sheer availability of porn (and extent), and of the means to alter such, that is an issue now such as to provide the statistics for why so many of those in younger generations are feeling the impact - as to being victims of image abuse or as to being targeted by paedophiles.

Yes, I read them, and I am aware of some of the dangers mentioned. But we humans can get innured or used to almost anything, to the point that our addictions need more and more stimuli. We can, of course, try to ban it all, with threats of jail or other punishment, but I think we've learned something by now about how well that tends to work. What we wind up with is a whole bunch of people, still addicted, but living off the public's dime in prison. History has demonstrated most clearly that banning commodities desired by the public (see Prohibition) simply leads to more underground commerce, leading to loss of taxable revenue and more man-years in prisons.

Surely a healhier way forward is quality, early education. Well-informed young people are better armed against all manner of ills.

But the point is that it is not about banning anything, as to access or as to content, but merely about controlling the access to those who can handle this particular aspect of life - and the young are mostly not able to do this, and shouldn't have to, even if sex education should be one important part of their education. They don't need to see or even know about the adult world of sex until they are mature enough to deal with such. As of now many seem to be getting something they can't really comprehend.

 

[Ella S.]

I think people should generally know better than to assume that the creators of fiction did their due diligence to portray anything accurately, no matter how large, small, relevant, or irrelevant the detail might be. We should regard carefully controlled information, especially information that we know is completely fabricated, with extreme skepticism. I know that not everyone does this, but I don't think that this on its own is a reason to attack the creation of fiction (even erotic, pornographic, or shock material). In my opinion, people need to take personal responsibility for how they interact with these media.

That said, the porn industry in general has a colored history with sexual abuse. Not all studios are guilty of this and, in some spaces, it is improving, from what I understand. That is a valid concern. Just like any other industry, the porn industry is tied to capitalist exploitation, with all of the abuse that implies.

I do think that people should be aware of how the media they consume influences them. Porn is far from alone in making people feel insecure about themselves, for instance, or reinforcing misogynistic narratives. We should be careful about what we let into our lives. While I do think this is also a case where personal responsibility is necessary, I also think it's fair to scrutinize the intentions and worldviews of creators and whether particular works suffer due to their reliance on certain cultural myths.

I am less concerned about porn itself and more concerned about the preoccupation with short-term gratification through sensual pleasure and the objectification of people into items of lust. I don't think that porn necessarily leads into these things any more than I think gangster rap turns its listeners into drug kingpins, though. At worst, it leads to them in the same way that dessert can lead to obesity or gambling can lead to a gambling addiction.

Currently, market forces are pushing all kinds of industries to make their products more and more addictive in general. YouTube added YouTube Shorts. Spotify added infinite scrolling. Facebook keeps redesigning itself for maximum doomscrolling. MMOs and mobile games implement features that reward binging their game several days in a row. Netflix releases entire seasons at once to encourage binging. etc. etc.

Do I think the porn industry is evil? Yeah, but mostly because I think the vast majority of modern industries are evil. Capitalism has essentially replaced ethics. It's the new form of consequentialism. Except instead of valuing collective pleasure, like utitlitarianism, it adapts egoism to focus solely on individual profit. And under capitalism, the ends of profit justify any means.

So, yeah, critique internet porn, but don't forget that these critiques apply to the entire corporatist system we live under. ANARCHY! ANARCH- okay, I'm logging off now.