Some Mormon missionaries tried to talk to me.

[David1967]

In many areas, a non-Christian would normally be very reluctant to report harassment by a Christian proselytizer to the police.

Depends. Proselytising isn't illegal. If Proselytizer refuses to leave private property when asked, he is then a trespasser. And, like I said, Ive never experienced this personally.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I think what penguin is meaning is that in many areas of the US, Christian sympathy wins out. A non-Christian, even being harassed, would be reluctant to report such an incident with the fear that either nothing will be done, or that the social backlash will be worse.

Sent from Windows 10 Mobile

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Depends.

But you do understand how a non-Christian might wonder if he'd get fair treatment if he reported Christian misbehaviour to a police force with "In God We Trust" on all of their cruisers, right?

Proselytising isn't illegal.

Not until it crosses the line into trespassing or harassment.

If Proselytizer refuses to leave private property when asked, he is then a trespasser. And, like I said, Ive never experienced this personally.

Speaking for myself, when an unwanted proselytizer comes to my home, just closing the door on them does the job. Where I've had real trouble is out in public (though not necessarily on public property): the most I've ever been harassed by a proselytizer was in a mall. I couldn't leave (I was waiting to meet my wife and couldn't get her on the phone), but I was able to finally get the guy to leave me alone without involving mall security or the police. Maybe I should have - I think he went on to bother other people, so it was probably a bit selfish that I let the matter drop once he stopped harassing me.

 

[David1967]

But you do understand how a non-Christian might wonder if he'd get fair treatment if he reported Christian misbehaviour to a police force with "In God We Trust" on all of their cruisers, right?

No I don't. And any officer who treated anyone differently due to their religious belief is a dishonor to his/her badge.

Not until it crosses the line into trespassing or harassment.

Of course.

Speaking for myself, when an unwanted proselytizer comes to my home, just closing the door on them does the job. Where I've had real trouble is out in public (though not necessarily on public property): the most I've ever been harassed by a proselytizer was in a mall. I couldn't leave (I was waiting to meet my wife and couldn't get her on the phone), but I was able to finally get the guy to leave me alone without involving mall security or the police. Maybe I should have - I think he went on to bother other people, so it was probably a bit selfish that I let the matter drop once he stopped harassing me.

And you would be right to involve mall security at this point.

 

[David1967]

I think what penguin is meaning is that in many areas of the US, Christian sympathy wins out. A non-Christian, even being harassed, would be reluctant to report such an incident with the fear that either nothing will be done, or that the social backlash will be worse.

Sent from Windows 10 Mobile

I cant speak for your town, but if that is the case there, then something is wrong.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No I don't. And any officer who treated anyone differently due to their religious belief is a dishonor to his/her badge.

Which isn't to say it doesn't happen.

Indiana State Police trooper fired for preaching faith during traffic stops

Police Evangelism | reachingthelostinternational

(Note: the second link more points to the attitude of the chief who would permit something like this than to the individual officers)

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I cant speak for your town, but if that is the case there, then something is wrong.

I very much agree. But sadly it happens quite a bit; if not from the authorities turning a blind eye, from social pressure keeping victims silent.

 

[David1967]

Which isn't to say it doesn't happen.

Indiana State Police trooper fired for preaching faith during traffic stops

Police Evangelism | reachingthelostinternational

(Note: the second link more points to the attitude of the chief who would permit something like this than to the individual officers)

I very much agree. But sadly it happens quite a bit; if not from the authorities turning a blind eye, from social pressure keeping victims silent.

Is this something that you have experienced personally?

 

[Grumpuss]

This is just precious coming from the poster who thinks Christian religious liberty is imperilled by people saying they'd rather not be the target of missionary activity.

No one's said this. Seriously. Read the thread- no one.

Keep playing to the Christian persecution complex - both it and Christian privilege are rife in this thread.

Read the thread. It's not as you imagine it. Whiners who think their lives and property are being intruded upon by some kids with pamphlets.

Anyone who tells them they're blowing things out of proportion is suddenly grouped into some "God Squad". Insanity.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Is this something that you have experienced personally?

Thankfully, not to extremes. But yes, I have had my discomforts and rights ignored and slighted, most notably while at work--which, probably surprisingly was with the Air Force.

No one's said this. Seriously. Read the thread- no one.
Read the thread. It's not as you imagine it.

Grossly ironic, as our complaints are not as you've over-dramatized them. We want to be left alone from such annoyances, and name them as nothing more. You narrate it as though we're saying they've kicked down our door and beat us over the head with their bibles. I think you've even used such colorful fantasies, even.

 

[Grumpuss]

Going door-to-door flipping people the bird would also be legal and the exercise of free speech.

And?

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's a good idea. Or ethical. Or having a positive impact on the world.

It is being violated, just not in an illegal way.

Being legal, ethical or having a positive impact are hardly the only criteria most people live by.

And if you think we should treat god-botherers like other door-to-door salespeople... well, in my town, door-to-door salespeople need municipal permits and can have those permits taken away if the town gets complaints. Is that the regime that you want for proselytizers to work under?

Sure, why not? I've already stated they are selling a product, same as others. People promoting a religion or advertising a charity shouldn't get preferential treatment and the ability to stay unregistered, just because of an outdated notion that they represent more altruistic causes.

The difficulty comes in people like you who will suddenly be forced to treat them the same, and not discriminate simply because they have a prejudice against some or all religion.

Indeed. Case in point: proselytizing is legal.

Are you sure?

In this very post, you described someone as a "delicate flower". There are plenty of similar examples in your other posts.

Hardly insulting. After all, if it walks like a delicate flower, and quacks like a delicate flower...

We haven't even gotten into specific doctrines yet. What thread are you reading?

The one about evil Mormons rudely intruding on people and making their lives miserable... or so they say.

 

[Grumpuss]

It's hardly trolling when I am falsely accused of something, and then am able to show the very clear error. Also given your post before this one, continually telling me to "chill out" (especially when you don't know my chill level, after all) is quite presumptuous. Especially with crap like this:

It's all right there in the thread. Chill out.

Given that I provided the very clear definition of intrusion, I think you know what you can do with your double standards.

I'm not sure who you're trying to convince- yourself, maybe?

Grossly ironic, as our complaints are not as you've over-dramatized them. We want to be left alone from such annoyances, and name them as nothing more. You narrate it as though we're saying they've kicked down our door and beat us over the head with their bibles. I think you've even used such colorful fantasies, even.

Some of that was hyperbole, dear. Descriptions were of rude people threatening fire and damnation, who repeatedly intrude and harass you in your own home. The reality is that these are kind and pleasant kids, mostly, who are answered at the door by people simply not interested in what is being pitched. Rather than simply saying that, posting a sign to deter future similar visitors or calling the police / local LDS church to complain, they seethe about it... here.

 

[Grumpuss]

LOL. I actually enjoy talking with people from different religious traditions to ever ask them to leave, so long as they are respectful toward me. Ive never even heard of any "rampaging mobs" of Mormon or JW's wreaking havoc. This thread has been fun, but I really don't see any relevant problem unless the person asked them to leave and they refused. I've been a police officer for 10 years and have never had anyone report harassment by missionary.

Exactly. It's in the best interest of the Mormons or JWs to be as pleasant and respectful as possible.

I have heard of occasional violence against the missionary by residents though. It's rare, and probably at about the same level aimed at pizza delivery men and census workers. And the commonality there is usually the criminal or shut-in nature of the resident, not the visitor being annoying.

Here's one who didn't like accident victims:
Detroit-area man gets 17 to 32 years for shooting visitor on porch

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Is this something that you have experienced personally?

Not with missionaries, but there have been other situations where I've been reluctant to report religious people to the police for minor things (e.g. police not enforcing parking regulations for church-goers).

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Hardly insulting. After all, if it walks like a delicate flower, and quacks like a delicate flower...

Ah, okay. So if it's self-justified, then insult is okay? Loud and clear.

The one about evil Mormons rudely intruding on people and making their lives miserable... or so they say.

And you called me a drama queen.

It's all right there in the thread.

You're right, it is all right there in the thread. But as we've more than enough seen, you and the rest of the God Squad aren't the best at listening to we poor "lost souls."

I'm not sure who you're trying to convince- yourself, maybe?

It's all right there in the thread. Do you need me to post it again? Perhaps with the definition of invasion, this time? I know paying attention to we poor whiners is taxing from all the way up there on your pedestal.

Some of that was hyperbole,

Quite clearly. And yet it's still not as we've stated it, and it's a bit beyond hyperbole at this point as you persist in asserting that it's our stance.

The reality is that these are kind and pleasant kids, mostly, who are answered at the door by people simply not interested in what is being pitched. Rather than simply saying that, posting a sign to deter future similar visitors or calling the police / local LDS church to complain, they seethe about it... here.

You're still just not getting it, are you? This is pointless.

 

[Grumpuss]

Ah, okay. So if it's self-justified, then insult is okay? Loud and clear.

No "self" involved. Others have made the same observations.

And you called me a drama queen.

Never happened.

You're right, it is all right there in the thread. But as we've more than enough seen, you and the rest of the God Squad aren't the best at listening to we poor "lost souls."

I'm not sure what this "God Squad" label is meant to be about. Am I advocating anything about The Lord or religious doctrine on this thread? For someone who makes snap judgments about posters based on the listed religion of others (see: Watchmen), I'd say this is dangerous behavior.

It's all right there in the thread. Do you need me to post it again? Perhaps with the definition of invasion, this time? I know paying attention to we poor whiners is taxing from all the way up there on your pedestal.

Yes, and please find where I called you a "drama queen".

Quite clearly. And yet it's still not as we've stated it, and it's a bit beyond hyperbole at this point as you persist in asserting that it's our stance.

No, I didn't "persist in asserting" anything. I simply didn't back down from my earlier claims, in response to your bullying.

You're still just not getting it, are you? This is pointless.

I agree. You're free to stop your belligerent behavior whenever you want.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

No "self" involved. Others have made the same observations.

Sure they have. Yet no one else thus far has stooped to insults.

Never happened.

Oh deepest apologies; it was "queen of insults." Not really better, though.

I'm not sure what this "God Squad" label is meant to be about.

Pretty self-explanatory; a squad (or would you prefer "mob"? I know that's what you've been playing them up to be, after all) that is for your god? Ergo: God Squad.

For someone who makes snap judgments about posters based on the listed religion of others

Imagine that; I took someone at their representation. Oh, the crime of it all! It's a miracle that I don't think you're perpetually a constipated-looking Michelle Obama.

No, I didn't "persist in asserting" anything. I simply didn't back down from my earlier claims, in response to your bullying.

"Bullying", priceless. Yet I bet you won't be able to find a single instance of us using near as inventive and dramatic language as you've done in complaining about the door-to-door "kids," so you're just falsely representing and demeaning our point of view. Which is, you know, an actual tactic of bullying.

You're free to stop your belligerent behavior whenever you want.

Oh I don't quite know about that, I'd be giving a bad name to us dirty, filthy, no-good, violent, angry, lost-soul Pagans the world over if I stopped being belligerent. But I am done with you. Bye, Felicia.

 

[Grumpuss]

Sure they have. Yet no one else thus far has stooped to insults.

They've only said the same things I have. You've using some bizarre form of the "divide and conquer" strategy, I suppose, but to impress who?

Oh deepest apologies; it was "queen of insults." Not really better, though.

So, you just lied- twice. Again, who are you trying to convince?

Pretty self-explanatory; a squad (or would you prefer "mob"? I know that's what you've been playing them up to be, after all) that is for your god? Ergo: God Squad.

So all religious people are the same to you? You already accused Watchmen of being a Mormon and harboring beliefs he didn't have, all so that you could make some convoluted point about Us vs. Them.

Imagine that; I took someone at their representation. Oh, the crime of it all! It's a miracle that I don't think you're perpetually a constipated-looking Michelle Obama.

More snap judgments...

"Bullying", priceless. Yet I bet you won't be able to find a single instance of us using near as inventive and dramatic language as you've done in complaining about the door-to-door "kids," so you're just falsely representing and demeaning our point of view. Which is, you know, an actual tactic of bullying.

Except for "intrusion" apparently.

Oh I don't quite know about that, I'd be giving a bad name to us dirty, filthy, no-good, violent, angry, lost-soul Pagans the world over if I stopped being belligerent. But I am done with you. Bye, Felicia.

That'll be the day. But okay- get angry again at more things I never said.

 

[Desert Snake]

Still flogging this dead horse.

 

[Desert Snake]

I don't want to be bothered by them at all. Is that too much to ask for? I don't like being bothered by strangers in general, but especially not fake people who only act "nice" because they're trying to convert you. It's all an act. On some level I pity them.

Lol
Yes it sort of is too much to ask for.