Some Mormon missionaries tried to talk to me.

[Grumpuss]

I know, they're just so pleasant, coming to nicely assume about me and tell me how wrong I am. It's funny that you're - yet again - accusing us of the exact same thing that their whole operation depends upon.

So that's how it starts out- they tell you you how wrong you are?

You assume that I have not tried this. What was that about judgement calls?

I think you're being intentionally deceptive to further your argument.

If I want to find out about their god - assuming, as they do, that I know nothing about him - then I'll go to their church. While they're at my door they're on my time.

Great- then feel free to explain your world view and spiritual outlook. If they don't want to hear it, or you aren't inclined to give it, what's wrong with politely asking them to leave?

Yeah, until they completely ignore those signs with the completely dishonest claim that they're not soliciting, so the sign doesn't apply to them. Stop trying to put all the responsibility on our end; as it is our homes, we have the right to be left alone in them. They are the ones intruding, and the ones that need to change if this sort of thing is to be alleviated.

It just remains an interesting hypothetical until you actually try it. Until then, it appears you're just seething.

And? It still gives the very clear message of "if people won't listen to you, leave them (to their folly)." They can think I'm hellbound all they want, I really don't care. But by persisting in coming to my door trying to convert me, they're not really paying attention to their bibles all that well.

Have you tried telling that to them? I mean, I doubt too many of them know you or read your lengthy threads on RF.

Unless they've got clones running around with the same name.

They do often have large families.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

So that's how it starts out- they tell you you how wrong you are?

Not a lot of other ways to interpret "That's myth; here's the truth!"

I think you're being intentionally deceptive to further your argument.

Of course you would. But again, you're not here so... what was all that you were going on about regarding judgement calls... hypocrite much?

what's wrong with politely asking them to leave?

Again, you assume that we have not done this many many times. Give me one good reason to treat such an unrelenting pest on my property with any less measure of fed-up deterrence?

It just remains an interesting hypothetical until you actually try it.

Also assuming that I have not tried this. So much hypocrisy right now.

Have you tried telling that to them?

Aren't they supposed to know their own religious books? I mean, they are the supposed "experts" here.

 

[Katzpur]

Much ado about nothing. I can't help but wonder how some of you handle real problems?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What pictures? Telling details of a story in visual terms, for example, helps the listener.

How are they helping? Unless people were fans of prowrestling from the mid80s to mid90s, they aren't even going to know who those people are.

So you lied earlier. Great- thanks for the wild goose chase.

No, you just made some more assumptions that are baseless.

despite the fact that outwardly they are nothing but pleasant with you

Then why just today did they leave a piece of paper on my car that became my responsibility to dispose of?

Then might I suggest that you truly listen to what the Mormons, or Jehovah's Witnesses are trying to tell you.

Apparently you missed when I said I have to or I can't debate them.

I've had the same experience. You simply tell them that your spiritual needs are taken care of, thank them (optionally), and then close the door. None of them will force their way in, and spew vile hatred at you, while holding you and your Pomeranian hostage.

You also apparently missed that we are talking about the ones who don't accept no for an answer. Those who keep showing up time and time again.

Sure. You care so little, that you're here railing against their well wishes, however intentioned, and using hyperbole to state that they must be wrong.

This subject/topic is about them, so why wouldn't I discuss them. I (obviously) do have some complaints about them, but if I think I'm going to destroy the moral fabric of society I care not one bit. If anything, I find it flattering they would/might give me so much of their attention and thought because I was not their normal daily encounter.

you feel harassed and/or fear for your life, may I suggest calling the local church and/or police department?

Another baseless assumption, and something I have not stated or indicated.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Much ado about nothing. I can't help but wonder how some of you handle real problems?

With about the same umph and "can do" gusto.

 

[Katzpur]

With about the same umph and "can do" gusto.

Well, don't let the hatred kill you at a young age.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Nobody said anything about hatred, Kat. Well, we didn't. It's been assumed, sure, but rest assured it's not there.

 

[Kirran]

Much ado about nothing. I can't help but wonder how some of you handle real problems?

It's often the case that when people have only mild feelings on something, but they're challenged on them, the resulting argument can make people look like they feel much more strongly than they do. I think.

 

[Grumpuss]

Not a lot of other ways to interpret "That's myth; here's the truth!"

Irrelevant, unless you can demonstrate that you have unequivocal truth.

Of course you would. But again, you're not here so... what was all that you were going on about regarding judgement calls... hypocrite much?

I'm not the one whining because a couple of Mormon kids ring their doorbell occasionally.

Again, you assume that we have not done this many many times. Give me one good reason to treat such an unrelenting pest on my property with any less measure of fed-up deterrence?

That's a strawman. They don't come that often AND you don't post any signs or display behavior to make them think they're unwelcome.

Also assuming that I have not tried this. So much hypocrisy right now.

I think you should try being honest with yourself more.

Aren't they supposed to know their own religious books? I mean, they are the supposed "experts" here.

You've read the Book of Mormon? Wow, I didn't think you had it in you.

Much ado about nothing. I can't help but wonder how some of you handle real problems?

IKR. Some kid rings the doorbell, and it's like a wounded chihuahua limping backwards!

 

[Grumpuss]

How are they helping? Unless people were fans of prowrestling from the mid80s to mid90s, they aren't even going to know who those people are.

What's your intent here? To bait and then report people again? No dice- get some other tactic, dude.

No, you just made some more assumptions that are baseless.

Which ones were those?

Then why just today did they leave a piece of paper on my car that became my responsibility to dispose of?

Did you report it to the police? I'm sure they would dispatch an officer to your property to remove the piece of paper as "evidence" if your shrieks become labored or shrill enough.

Apparently you missed when I said I have to or I can't debate them.

There's a disturbing trend of "you vs. them" going on, as if you feel such people are in an adversarial relationship with you. Have such people assaulted you previously?

You also apparently missed that we are talking about the ones who don't accept no for an answer. Those who keep showing up time and time again.

Again, this is just advertising. You continue to not buy the product, they continue to hope that you will reconsider.

This subject/topic is about them, so why wouldn't I discuss them. I (obviously) do have some complaints about them, but if I think I'm going to destroy the moral fabric of society I care not one bit. If anything, I find it flattering they would/might give me so much of their attention and thought because I was not their normal daily encounter.

Doesn't address the last comment made. You engage in hyperbole against someone you appear to consider a mortal enemy, for the deeply insulting crime of... ringing your doorbell.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Much ado about nothing. I can't help but wonder how some of you handle real problems?

I don't have it that bad here, but I know atheists in religious areas who have to deal with constant religious noise in their lives. It's a big reason why atheist groups exist: just to give people a meetup place where they know they won't be hassled by religious people or put down because they don't believe.

In that sort of environment, if people then tried to push their religion on me in my own home - in one of the few places where I would expect to not have to deal with it - I might get pretty pissed off, too.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Much ado about nothing. I can't help but wonder how some of you handle real problems?

IKR. Some kid rings the doorbell, and it's like a wounded chihuahua limping backwards!

You know, instead of shrugging these people's perspectives off as invalid, you ought to give some real consideration about what it is about your religion that might elicit such a negative reaction.

...but that would be a lot harder than demeaning people.

 

[Kirran]

You know, instead of shrugging these people's perspectives off as invalid, you ought to give some real consideration about what it is about your religion that might elicit such a negative reaction.

...but that would be a lot harder than demeaning people.

Not that you don't get atheists being quite similar in mindset and manner, in different contexts.

 

[Grumpuss]

You know, instead of shrugging these people's perspectives off as invalid, you ought to give some real consideration about what it is about your religion that might elicit such a negative reaction.

I'm not a Mormon, sir. And I don't broadcast my faith around either. Forgive me for standing up for my fellow Americans' constitutional right to practice their own free speech and free religion.

...but that would be a lot harder than demeaning people.

Who is demeaning people? I'm questioning why you take personal affront to answering your own door for a couple of Mormon kids?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

You must type with your eyes closed then

Just because you see ads doesn't mean everyone does. Even on this forum, I think if you have a paid subscription you won't see ads at all.

It's kind of like: Just because you see hellfire doesn't mean everyone does.

Why do you care what Mormons think of you after you've closed the door on them?

Habitual trespassers can't be trusted not to leave your stuff alone.

You believe you are better than everyone else, and take any newly introduced philosophy presented to you as an insulting challenge to your ego?

It's the 21st century. We can ALL look up religious beliefs on the internet. Why do we need badly informed salespeople?

Once again, you worry far too much about this stuff for someone who's a simple atheist.

Reminds me of a joke: Why don't JW's celebrate Halloween? Do they resent [smiling kids] going door to door?

One thing, the pictures add nothing to the discussion.

Other than nostalgia for my childhood/teen years, they're irrelevant.

I care that they assume there must be something wrong with me, something I am missing out on, or why else would they even approach me?

Exactly. It's like when people are selling you crutches and your legs aren't broken ... yet ...

Also, despite the occasional bad delivery, what those other denominations are doing is expressing a concern for your mortal soul.

By assuming we haven't had this conversation already with God, Gods, or godless peers. I'm a Christian: why do I need a conversion advertisement?

Telling details of a story in visual terms, for example, helps the listener.

They have nothing to do with anything.

You already don't like these missionaries, despite the fact that outwardly they are nothing but pleasant with you (the Latter-Day Saints, that is).

If a Satanist (a theistic one who actually worships Satan, not the atheistic parodies) shows up to your church smiling, I can guess the church's reaction ....

But you harbor deep animosity for them anyway because of some notion that they are judging you after you close the door.

They judged Shadow BEFORE the door was opened. How can a religion convince me it is talking to God when they clearly don't have His membership list?

Then might I suggest that you truly listen to what the Mormons, or Jehovah's Witnesses are trying to tell you.

"Personal space is for suckers?"

It's one thing if your car broke down or some creep is following you and you need help. I'm cool with that. However, to be an uninformed shill for a religion is just asking too much. I've talked with too many evangelists who are trying to sell me a Ferrari and yet can't tell me the parts of a car.

There is nothing wrong with them trying to spread their own message. You might do the same thing, if you had a thing you thought was good news.

No. I act how I act and IF people are curious as to WHY, THEN I tell them. You have official soapboxes for this kind of thing. Do it there and leave people alone.

It was "if you build it, they will come," not "if they aren't coming, shove it in their faces."

But Matthew also said in that same passage, "Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave." and "If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you."

But, again, visiting multiple times after the first "no" is harassment. No means no.

How would anyone ever change their belief about anything, if new ideas are never introduced? The Earth is no longer believed to be flat, geocentrism has been discredited, and blacks & women can now vote.

They can go to forums where different ideas are discussed. The home need not be violated.

If it's one thing that irks me, it's the refusal to understand what century we're in. We shouldn't be sending kids out door to door for fundraising or advertising, no matter what the organization is making them do it. That's what the internet and other means are for.

How do they know that though?

Aren't they trying to claim they are getting their info from GOD? You know, the ONE who knows EVERYTHING?

No, wait, God in the bible can't even tell a Hebrew from an Egyptian without painting doors with bloody gang signs. You're right ... God's an idiot.

Much ado about nothing. I can't help but wonder how some of you handle real problems?

Trespassing and harassment ARE crimes, you know....

Forgive me for standing up for my fellow Americans' constitutional right to practice their own free speech and free religion.

They are free to worship. They are free to have speech. They DO NOT have the right to trespass, cold sell, or harass. I mean, Jesus ... do you guys feel Christian bakers should make gay wedding cakes? I mean, the customer just came in all smiles until you ...

 

[Katzpur]

Trespassing and harassment ARE crimes, you know....

Okay, so call the cops the next time the Girl Scouts show up on your doorstep. Seriously, talk about an over-reaction. Now if the same Mormon missionaries were showing up repeatedly after you'd asked them to stop, or were truly being offensive in their approach (insulting you, condemning your beliefs, threatening you, etc.), that would be a different matter. But having known many Mormon missionaries over the years, I'd say that's highly unlikely. The Jehovah's Witnesses show up at my house a couple of time a year. I wonder what would happen if I were to call 911 and report them for having offered me a copy of the Watchtower. I imagine the cops would suggest I just grow up.

 

[David1967]

I wonder what would happen if I were to call 911 and report them for having offered me a copy of the Watchtower. I

I know exactly how I would react if I was called to a residence because someone had simply knocked on a door and offered a copy of the watchtower. A chewing out for wasting my time when someone may legitimately be needing help. A simple, "sorry, not interested" would be sufficient I would think.

 

[Watchmen]

I don't get what the big deal is. A couple kids try to share something they believe in because, among other things, they think it's improved their life. What's so wrong about that? If you're not interested just say, "No thank you," and move along.

 

[Grumpuss]

I don't get what the big deal is. A couple kids try to share something they believe in because, among other things, they think it's improved their life. What's so wrong about that? If you're not interested just say, "No thank you," and move along.

Exactly. It's innocuous.

But that's not what this is about. This is about self-victimization and having such ego problems that even someone knocking on your door becomes an offense. ...Or someone else daring to justify such things on a web forum.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Irrelevant, unless you can demonstrate that you have unequivocal truth.

No, no, no - that's not how this works. There is no evidence whatsoever that their beliefs are any more true than mine, and as they are coming to my home, their assumption holds no ground. If I came to their church, maybe, but they're on my turf.

And it's not irrelevant, when as you so sardonically asked for, they are telling me that I am wrong in my home. Not the best PR campaign.

I'm not the one whining because a couple of Mormon kids ring their doorbell occasionally.

You really haven't been paying attention.

That's a strawman. They don't come that often AND you don't post any signs or display behavior to make them think they're unwelcome.
I think you should try being honest with yourself more.

A.) That is not a strawman, it is a response to your ridiculously presumptuous and arrogant attitude; look up logical fallacies and familiarize yourself with them if you're going to start hurling them about.
B.) You have zero clue what I have done, how often I am solicited, or how I handle things. Further displaying hypocrisy in that this very behavior is what you have accused and admonished us for. We may live close to one another, but you have no more clue of my life than the pests pushing your god door-to-door.
C.) You didn't give me a reason to continue playing civil.

Forgive me for standing up for my fellow Americans' constitutional right to practice their own free speech and free religion.

Your - and their - rights end where another's begin. Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion only means that one cannot be imprisoned for exercising those things; it does not mean "I can intrude upon you with my speech and beliefs and you can't stop me and you're wrong to become annoyed at my doing so."

A right to free speech also means that we can tell people who intrude on our time and beliefs to sod off in whatever way we want - your offense to our handling of "a couple Mormon (and Jehovah's Witness) kids" matters less than nothing.

You know what's really sad, though? We'd be arrested for disturbing the peace if we were to come to a church and speak our mind. You know, similar to what these people are doing. See examples here, here, here, and here. So much for free speech, right?

Who is demeaning people?

You are, when you make us out to be "the bad guy" for being intruded upon - yes, that is exactly what it is - and showing irritation at constant badgering from your "brothers and sisters". You especially are when you assume and assert that we're lying just to "make a point". But this is all par for the course; you lot think you're so right, why would you listen and learn from we poor god-less souls?

Which is ironic, really, as isn't that what you encouraged us to do? Share and talk? Fat chance, when you're just going to treat us like we're lying and use it as a shoe-in for "your truth". Thank you, I suppose, for perfectly illustrating our point.

------------------------------

Okay, so call the cops the next time the Girl Scouts show up on your doorstep.

Well, if we've got a "No Solicitation" sign, then one would be within the full right of the law to do so. But the Scouts are usually good at reading and heeding those signs, after all.

Now if the same Mormon missionaries were showing up repeatedly after you'd asked them to stop, or were truly being offensive in their approach (insulting you, condemning your beliefs, threatening you, etc.), that would be a different matter.

Which has been said many times that such - at least, the former - is the case.

I wonder what would happen if I were to call 911 and report them for having offered me a copy of the Watchtower.

If you have a "No Soliciting" sign, or they are being disruptive, the officers would enforce public laws that protect your right against solicitation, harassment, and disruption of peace.

I imagine the cops would suggest I just grow up.

So "grow up" is your response to harassment? Interesting.

------------------------------

I know exactly how I would react if I was called to a residence because someone had simply knocked on a door and offered a copy of the watchtower. A chewing out for wasting my time when someone may legitimately be needing help.

And you'd be a terrible cop, then. A city staffs enough police officers that emergencies are responded to as well as civil disputes, public disturbances, suspicious activity of varying degrees, noise complaints, or even helping parents to discipline their children. If someone needs police assistance to get the point across to trespassers that they're not interested, it is the job of the police - as civil servants - to assist them.