Jesus is Micheal and Satan is not Lucifer. You just must take Jehovah's Witness word for it. The two doctrines might stay the same for the life of you or they might not. Then when you're dead, who cares?
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Some of the most interesting answers have been OFF TOPIC
- Thread starter savagewind
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:eat: FEED ME! I want an answer please.
Believe it or not I still am expecting an answer. Call me stupid.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
I don't know about Micheal, however you are correct that Satan is not Lucifer.
The name Lucifer is not even actually in the Bible, and the verses from which they mistranslate it, are actually talking about a human Babylonian King.
I was rather surprised the other day (by his lack of knowledge) when I heard a preacher, on ASK THE PREACHER, - a program meant to teach Christians what the Bible says, and means, - tell a caller that Lucifer was the Heavenly name of Satan.
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I don't know about Micheal, however you are correct that Satan is not Lucifer.
The name Lucifer is not even actually in the Bible, and the verses from which they mistranslate it, are actually talking about a human Babylonian King.
I was rather surprised the other day (by his lack of knowledge) when I heard a preacher, on ASK THE PREACHER, - a program meant to teach Christians what the Bible says, and means, - tell a caller that Lucifer was the Heavenly name of Satan.
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OK. Lucifer is not the king of Babylon. How do I know this? Because all scripture is beneficial for teaching, reproving and setting things strait. How is the king of Babylon being the morning star, son of the dawn in beautiful poetry going to help me anyway at all?
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva said:
OK, from the way you worded that, - I'm not sure what you are trying to say.
Obviously "Lucifer" is not the King of Babylon, as there is no Lucifer.
However, a King of Babylon is the one being spoken of in the text. It tells us so.
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Isaiah 14:2 tells us we are talking about payback for captivity in Babylon.
Isa 14:2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
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It tells us this is a King of Babylon -
Isa 14:4 And thou take up this adage against/concerning the King of Babylon, and say thus, O how has failed the Tyrannizer/Oppressor; failed the Golden City. (Babylon was called the Golden City.)
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Human with a normal grave -
Isa 14:10 Altogether speaking, they said, even thee be rubbed-out/struck-down, as it was for us also.
Isa 14:11 Thus descends to Sheol (the grave) thy pomp/pride, and the noise of thy psalteries; and for thee below, a bed of worms and a coverlet of maggots.
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The section they always mistranslate into a Satan character called Lucifer - In this text they are using "the heights" like we still do today - when we say someone climbed/clawed his way to the top, and now takes a correspondingly great fall off his little throne.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from a great height, O Heylel (Shining One,) son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 for you said in your heart, I will ascend the heights to the very highest, to a prince of God raise up my throne, and sit upon the mount of the appointed/assembly on the border in the North (Temple on Mount Moriah)
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most Lofty/Highest.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to Sheol (the grave,) to the sides of the pit.
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Specifically called a MAN -
Isa 14:16 And they that come near to glance at thee, regard thee, the man that made the nations tremble in fear.
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His HUMAN end - his body to be treated like that of a common criminal tossed in a pit grave., rather then the family sepulcher of a King.
Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own family burial vault (sepulcher.)
Isa 14:19 But thou art cast out of thy sepulcher, like a descendent detested, shrouded with death, thrust through with a sword, tossed under the stones in a hole/pit; a carcass trodden under foot.
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That is interesting. Thank you. I have doubts because why do "all the kings" say to another king "you have become like us"? Isaiah 14:9, 10
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
The hard to understand King James says this -
Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Isa 14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
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Isa 14:9 Sheol/the grave trembles in anticipation of your coming, stirring up the ghosts of the dead, all the leaders of the land rise up from their coverings/shrouds, all the Kings together
Isa 14:10 Altogether speaking, they said, even thee be rubbed-out/struck-down, as it was for us also.
Isa 14:11 Thus descends to Sheol (the grave) thy pomp/pride, and the noise of thy psalteries; and for thee below, a bed of worms and a coverlet of maggots.
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If the lady thinks I am going to forget about the question, well I am not. Haha Though I think if I do not forget she will report me for trolling which I suppose asking a question over and over and over again might well be trolling even if an answer is not forthcoming or not.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
It is not a question for you. The question is for the JWs on site. They say we are able to know Jesus only by listening to the governing body. They trust the bible is true and trust Jesus was resurrected. The Bible says Jesus stands at the door knocking and if ANYONE hears his voice and opens the door, he will come in and eat with that person, and they with him. (Rev 3:20) My question is why do they teach I am not able to learn from Jesus but I must learn from the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses to have the salvation of Christ Jesus?What question are you talking about?
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
A very good question.
We know, from all the "preachers" that have been shysters, and bilked the people out of their money and possessions, before being arrested, - that just because they call themselves "called of God" doesn't necessarily mean such is true.
Whereas one can read and study the Bible, and other Biblical sources, for herself, and have knowledge to counter what the charlatan preachers say.
So always study - and question.
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OK. I think I can not keep quiet. Someone who has put modern man ahead, way way ahead of the apostles has typed "apostless" which I think is surely a Freudian slip. You know?
I have found all the wisdom of the Bible is in double or triple. Every command and lead has a backup scripture. But "go make disciples" stands alone. There is no other scripture in which God is saying transform the people into lovers of YHVH.
Does anyone know about ancient men's under wear?
Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
This is because our consciousness and awareness is a complex form of interaction. Interaction is fundamental. Everything interacts via the fundamental forces...one of which happens to be electromagnetism.
This is because our consciousness and awareness is a complex form of interaction. Interaction is fundamental. Everything interacts via the fundamental forces...one of which happens to be electromagnetism.
What is the difference between consciousness and awareness please?
Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
Both are just forms of interaction. Not much difference really.
Thank you. I think this;
deserves it's own forum thread.
The Bible says Jesus will say at judgement day "I never knew you, get away from me" to the people who say "Lord we did as you commanded us to do" and it has be what was really written of what Jesus said because if it isn't what he really said, then what else didn't he say that is written he said?
I think I should make a bumper sticker just like that.
I think I should make a bumper sticker just like that.