Some questions about life, religion, and the purpose of it all

[ZenMonkey]

We live in a seemingly fallen world occupied by seemingly fallen and lost people. In the Christian faith it is believed there is a beast, a false prophet, and Satan who work together to destroy our home. Will this earth remain a fallen world until the beast, false prophet and Satan are destroyed? Reconciled maybe? Do they exist only in the minds of fallen man and in those who have been deceived by the "thieves and robbers" who some claim have hijacked the christian faith? Will the fallen on earth be reconciled as others have already been reconciled or will some truly be forever lost?

1. What's this life for?
   
2. What is the lake of fire?
   
3. What is hell?
   
4. What is the beast?
   
5. What is the false prophet?
   
6. What is Satan?
   
7. Will all one day be reconciled, or will some be forever lost?

I myself believe the world we live in exists to help lost souls come back into union with what is – I believe we are here to learn very hard lessons and to experience the effects of evil, which is for lack of a better term “hell”. These experiences help lead many of us to want and pursue reconciliation with all that's good (God). I think the world is a metaphorical furnace of refinement, or rather the lake of fire. Satan (selfish/evil desire), the beast (false god), false prophet (false understanding), "hell" (strong emotional unrest), and fallen men all have their existence here already. I myself believe the lake of fire (life on earth) is ongoing - some say eternal (everlasting). Can it get back to good or no? Why or why not? Is there hope?

 

[JayJayDee]

We live in a seemingly fallen world occupied by seemingly fallen and lost people. In the Christian faith it is believed there is a beast, a false prophet, and Satan who work together to destroy our home. Will this earth remain a fallen world until the beast, false prophet and Satan are destroyed? Reconciled maybe? Do they exist only in the minds of fallen man and in those who have been deceived by the "thieves and robbers" who some claim have hijacked the christian faith? Will the fallen on earth be reconciled as others have already been reconciled or will some truly be forever lost?

Life had a wonderful beginning and potentially, a wonderful future, but being made in God's image, both humans and angels could exercise free will. Was free will truly free? NO! Free will was meant to be exercised within the parameters of the greater will of God. All things exist because of God's will and freedom of choice was meant to be a blessing, exercised in hundreds of ways each day. It was meant to enhance life and add enjoyment to everything we did.

Enter a rebellious spirit who was discontent with his lot. He was not happy with being a servant of God...he wanted to BE a god. The only way he could fulfill his ambition was to hijack the only intelligent creatures on earth who could give him what he desired. God's allowing satan to prove himself to be the better ruler, shows God who is loyal at heart and who is willing to sell their soul to the devil. :sad:

1. What's this life for?

Life is a gift from the Creator who wished to become a father to other beings. His superior wisdom and power made it impossible for his creation to challenge his Sovereignty over everything. That didn't stop one spirit being from trying to take God's children away from him, accusing him of lying and of withholding something beneficial from them. In this way he siphoned off worship for himself in a multitude of fake religions.

2. What is the lake of fire?

Like gehenna, the lake of fire is a symbolic destination for those who refuse to bring their lives into harmony with God's requirements. It is called "the second death"....this is a death from which no one returns.Those sentenced to this place demonstrate a rebellious spirit like the one who led them astray, and like him, they want to do things their way. They have no future.

3. What is hell?

Hell (sheol, hades) is the common grave of mankind. (Eccl 9:5, 10) There is no conscious existence there. The dead come out of hades. (Rev 20:13)

4. What is the beast?

The beast of Revelation has seven heads and ten horns and is explained in Rev 17:9-14

The Bible depicts political powers as wild beasts to whom the Devil has given “great authority.” It also describes the shameless alliance between politics and religion as disgusting spiritual adultery. (Revelation 13:2; 17:1, 2,) The Bible unmistakably identifies and unmasks the one who has been maneuvering human leaders and world powers. Whether consciously or not, human society reflects the personality of its ruler and its god. (Luke 4:5-8)

5. What is the false prophet?

In the Revelation we see a wild beast with two horns like a lamb that performed great signs before the seven-headed wild beast. This deceptive creature acted like a prophet for that wild beast. It promoted worship of the wild beast, even causing an image to be built to it. (Revelation 13:11-14) This wild beast with two horns like a lamb must be the same as “the false prophet” mentioned here. Confirming this, we read later that the false prophet, like the symbolic wild beast with two horns, “performed in front of [the seven-headed wild beast] the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image.” (Revelation 19:20)

6. What is Satan?

He is a rebel spirit who tried to wrench worship away from God by deceiving his human children and leading them off into the many forms of false worship that he set up. He promotes a spirit of independence and selfishness. He spreads violence and immorality....His stamp is all over this world.

7. Will all one day be reconciled, or will some be forever lost?

Right from the outset God purposed to rectify all the damage that rebellion has brought upon mankind. A reconciliation was foretold for those who genuinely love God and who want to do his will. Those who have no love for God, no love of the truth and no intention of ever bringing their lives into harmony with God's requirements, will find no place in his kingdom. (2 Thess 2:9-12)

Forever lost? Yes....but by their own choice.

Can it get back to good or no? Why or why not? Is there hope?

Yes, it was foretold from the beginning that God would "break up the works of the devil" and by means of his kingdom, bring mankind back to paradise. What Adam lost for his children, Jesus gets back for them. God would send a redeemer for the obedient ones who demonstrate that they love God with all their hearts. They have no interest in self, but are concerned only about doing the will of God. (Matt 7:21-23)

Rev 21:1-5 is a glimpse into the future....

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” 5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”

Sounds good to me! :group:

 

[1137]

Surprised this isn't in the Christian DIR.

 

[BruceDLimber]

1. What's this life for?
   
   
2. What is the lake of fire?
   
3. What is hell?
   
4. What is the beast?
   
5. What is the false prophet?
   
6. What is Satan?
   
7. Will all one day be reconciled, or will some be forever lost?

1. According to the Baha'i Faith, our purpose here is twofold:
· As individuals we are to acquire the spiritual virtues we'll need both here and in the Next Life.
· In aggregate, we're to carry forward an ever-advancing, spiritually-based civilization.
And the purpose of religion is to show us HOW to go about this!

2. Metaphor.

3. Spiritual separation from God (Heaven being spiritual nearness to Him). Baha'i scripture states it exists both here and now as well as after death (as does Heaven), but in any case hell is a temporary condition which God, in His infinite Love and Mercy, eventually corrects by assisting us to progress into Heaven.

4. The title of a person (actually, there were two, the first and second) who corrupted and attempted to destroy the spirituality of Islam.

5. Anyone who teaches false doctrine.

6. God is One, Supreme, and has no equal or rival! There is thus no "devil" out there competing with Him of trying to "get us."

And "satan" merely refers to our own lower (animal) nature when we give it control instead of our higher (spiritual) nature.

7. We will all ultimately be reconciled and together in loving concord, in the Next Life if not in this one!

None are "forever lost" as I explained in #3 above.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[chinu]

What's this life for?

The answer is in question itself. This life is for.. To know what's this life for.

What is the lake of fire?

Everything other than God's home is the lake of fire. And one stepped into this lake of fire right when one separated from God/God's home.

What is hell?

The above asked "Lake of fire" is equal to "Hell" which is equal to separation from God.

What is the beast?

I don't know.

What is the false prophet?

Any Separated-Soul who call himself/herself as prophet is false prophet, Whereas any re-united soul is true-prophet.

What is Satan?

"Time" is equal to "Satan"
All souls separated from God will definitely re-unite with God one day, the only thing standing in between is Time-Gap. Thus.. "Time" is equal to "Satan"

Will all one day be reconciled, or will some be forever lost?

I think I have already answered this question in the above answers.

 

[Looncall]

We live in a seemingly fallen world occupied by seemingly fallen and lost people. In the Christian faith it is believed there is a beast, a false prophet, and Satan who work together to destroy our home. Will this earth remain a fallen world until the beast, false prophet and Satan are destroyed? Reconciled maybe? Do they exist only in the minds of fallen man and in those who have been deceived by the "thieves and robbers" who some claim have hijacked the christian faith? Will the fallen on earth be reconciled as others have already been reconciled or will some truly be forever lost?

1. What's this life for?
2. What is the lake of fire?
3. What is hell?
4. What is the beast?
5. What is the false prophet?
6. What is Satan?
7. Will all one day be reconciled, or will some be forever lost?

I myself believe the world we live in exists to help lost souls come back into union with what is – I believe we are here to learn very hard lessons and to experience the effects of evil, which is for lack of a better term “hell”. These experiences help lead many of us to want and pursue reconciliation with all that's good (God). I think the world is a metaphorical furnace of refinement, or rather the lake of fire. Satan (selfish/evil desire), the beast (false god), false prophet (false understanding), "hell" (strong emotional unrest), and fallen men all have their existence here already. I myself believe the lake of fire (life on earth) is ongoing - some say eternal (everlasting). Can it get back to good or no? Why or why not? Is there hope?

My personal opinion is that none of this is real, and was invented to provide a living for shamans, rabbis, priests, pastors, imams etc.

While they may be living from a begging bowl (at least metaphorically), they are not the ones spending their days up to their knees in night soil in the rice paddies.

 

[Quintessence]

As with Doors, I'm a little surprised at the choice of forum for these questions, because they are heavily slanted towards Christian theology and apply poorly to religions outside of that framework. Was there any particular reason you chose to post this up in Religious Debates, ZenMonkey, instead of the Christian DIR or Same Faith Debates? Just curious.

The only question that is really applicable for my religion is the first one: what's this life for? In my tradition, it is simply for doing whatever the thing must, given its essence/aspect/nature/soul/spirit/etc. Put another way, things do what they are fated to do, have an inescapable duty to do, or do by necessity because of their intrinsic nature requires such. That's the objective essence of what's going on, and any other interpretation one decides to stick on it is the story or mythology we want to tell to bring further meaningfulness to the facts of reality.

Beyond that, none of the other questions apply to my religion. There's no original sin, there's no damnation, no hell, no lakes of fire, nothing to be saved from, or any of that.

 

[ChristineES]

What's this life for? Can this question be answered?
What is the lake of fire?You'll have as many answers as there are theologians answering it. It could be anything from punishment, banishment, to purification.
What is hell? The grave/underground
What is the beast? Even I, as a Christian, haven't got the slighest idea what it is.
What is the false prophet? See question above
What is Satan? Satan is the accuser, according to Job.
Will all one day be reconciled, or will some be forever lost?Christians believe that we will be reconciled.

 

[thau]

We live in a seemingly fallen world occupied by seemingly fallen and lost people. In the Christian faith it is believed there is a beast, a false prophet, and Satan who work together to destroy our home. Will this earth remain a fallen world until the beast, false prophet and Satan are destroyed? Reconciled maybe? Do they exist only in the minds of fallen man and in those who have been deceived by the "thieves and robbers" who some claim have hijacked the christian faith? Will the fallen on earth be reconciled as others have already been reconciled or will some truly be forever lost?

1. What's this life for?
   
2. What is the lake of fire?
   
3. What is hell?
   
4. What is the beast?
   
5. What is the false prophet?
   
6. What is Satan?
   
7. Will all one day be reconciled, or will some be forever lost?

I myself believe the world we live in exists to help lost souls come back into union with what is – I believe we are here to learn very hard lessons and to experience the effects of evil, which is for lack of a better term “hell”. These experiences help lead many of us to want and pursue reconciliation with all that's good (God). I think the world is a metaphorical furnace of refinement, or rather the lake of fire. Satan (selfish/evil desire), the beast (false god), false prophet (false understanding), "hell" (strong emotional unrest), and fallen men all have their existence here already. I myself believe the lake of fire (life on earth) is ongoing - some say eternal (everlasting). Can it get back to good or no? Why or why not? Is there hope?

Your whole philosophy strikes me as very Christian in its core values, and concluding with a final virtue of hope (i.e a return to an earthly hell until one is fully redeemed).

As to your main question, I do not believe it can be answered this side of the grave? It’s like the summation and key to all troubles with God’s message. Even terminal suffering does not deter like the idea of an eternal hell does. I, myself, cannot let that me stop me from believing. That is about all I can offer.

 

[Riverwolf]

We live in a seemingly fallen world occupied by seemingly fallen and lost people.

We do? I haven't noticed. Most people in my experience are ultimately good.

What's this life for?

Us to make based on the tools available.

What is the lake of fire?

Well, there are many such "lakes", though we generally refer to them as lava pools these days. They're just breaks in the Earth's crust where the Magma can spew come forth.

What is hell?

Tartarus.

What is the beast?

Probably just a mother trying to feed her children.

What is the false prophet?

There are many scam artists in this world taking advantage of superstition to sell overpriced services and products.

What is Satan?

A young (not much more than 1000 years old) trickster God who effectively is a combination (or a "son", if you will) of two mythological figures: Angra-Mainyu from Zoroastrianism, and Shaitan (the Accuser) from Jewish lore.

Will all one day be reconciled, or will some be forever lost?

I don't really believe any reconciliation is necessary. Not all those who wander are lost.

Is there hope?

As long as RLSHs exist, there's plenty of hope.

 

[Sleeppy]

1. What's this life for?
   
2. What is the lake of fire?
   
3. What is hell?
   
4. What is the beast?
   
5. What is the false prophet?
   
6. What is Satan?
   
7. Will all one day be reconciled, or will some be forever lost?

I myself believe the world we live in exists to help lost souls come back into union with what is – I believe we are here to learn very hard lessons and to experience the effects of evil, which is for lack of a better term “hell”. These experiences help lead many of us to want and pursue reconciliation with all that's good (God). I think the world is a metaphorical furnace of refinement, or rather the lake of fire. Satan (selfish/evil desire), the beast (false god), false prophet (false understanding), "hell" (strong emotional unrest), and fallen men all have their existence here already. I myself believe the lake of fire (life on earth) is ongoing - some say eternal (everlasting). Can it get back to good or no? Why or why not? Is there hope?

The higher the population gets, in relation to resources, the shakier it gets. Jesus is said to have fed 5000 families, with only 5 loaves and two fish (--which were blessed, in God's name). Jesus and his disciples could have broken the loaves and the fish into 5000 pieces, and passed them on to the heads of the houses.. But God is also one who stretches the smallest things into what are necessary, for seemingly overwhelming tasks. Jesus was called the son of David, by these people. David was supposedly given an everlasting throne; I would expect a son of David to be sitting in it. If David has no throne, he won't be able to give it-- either way, David called God his king.



The best we can do is have hope in God, even knowing that we will suffer and eventually die. Humanity as a whole must need to suffer, and come to the brink of extinction, like in the days of Noah. And as Isaiah says, after the Earth is made completely desolate, we will be reborn under a new heaven. The abominations of desolation are in place-- God delays his anger further than any would suppose, but within days the had Earth drowned, previously. We're heading for God's climax.

 

[Sleeppy]

The Prodigal Son

And he said, `A certain man had two sons, and the younger of them said to the father, Father, give me the portion of the substance falling to [me], and he divided to them the living. `And not many days after, having gathered all together, the younger son went abroad to a far country, and there he scattered his substance, living riotously; and he having spent all, there came a mighty famine on that country, and himself began to be in want; and having gone on, he joined himself to one of the citizens of that country, and he sent him to the fields to feed swine, and he was desirous to fill his belly from the husks that the swine were eating, and no one was giving to him. `And having come to himself, he said, How many hirelings of my father have a superabundance of bread, and I here with hunger am perishing! Having risen, I will go on unto my father, and will say to him, Father, I did sin -- to the heaven, and before thee, and no more am I worthy to be called thy son; make me as one of thy hirelings. `And having risen, he went unto his own father, and he being yet far distant, his father saw him, and was moved with compassion, and having ran he fell upon his neck and kissed him; and the son said to him, Father, I did sin -- to the heaven, and before thee, and no more am I worthy to be called thy son. And the father said unto his servants, Bring forth the first robe, and clothe him, and give a ring for his hand, and sandals for the feet; and having brought the fatted calf, kill [it], and having eaten, we may be merry, because this my son was dead, and did live again, and he was lost, and was found; and they began to be merry. `And his elder son was in a field, and as, coming, he drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing, and having called near one of the young men, he was inquiring what these things might be, and he said to him -- Thy brother is arrived, and thy father did kill the fatted calf, because in health he did receive him back. `And he was angry, and would not go in, therefore his father, having come forth, was entreating him; and he answering said to the father, Lo, so many years I do serve thee, and never thy command did I transgress, and to me thou didst never give a kid, that with my friends I might make merry; but when thy son -- this one who did devour thy living with harlots -- came, thou didst kill to him the fatted calf. `And he said to him, Child, thou art always with me, and all my things are thine; but to be merry, and to be glad, it was needful, because this thy brother was dead, and did live again, he was lost, and was found.'

 

[Farrukh]

What's this life for?

God almighty has given us this life for testing us, he has awarded us with free will, we can choose bad path or good path. we will get eternal paradise or hell fire depending on how we have done in this life.

[*]What is the lake of fire?

there is no lake of fire. are you talking about hell fire?

[*]What is hell?

hell is destiny of disbelievers.

[*]What is the beast?

we will see when it will appear. it will come near end of time.

[*]What is the false prophet?

I don't know how many false prophets came after prophet Jesus peace be upon him, but prophet Muhammad peace and blessing of Allah be upon him said that there will be 30 false prophets after him, all of them will claim that he is prophet, but Muhammad pbuh told that he is final prophet, and there is no prophet after him.
worst of those prophets will be Antichrist or Dajjal, first he will claim of prophet and then he will claim that he is god. Jesus will come when Dajjal will be spreading evil on earth.

[*]What is Satan?

God created angels from light, jinn from fire and human beings from dust. Satan was one of the pious Jinn, when God asked him to prostrate before Adam(first human being) he rejected the order because of pride, and God expelled him from heaven, Satan is now free to distract people from right path, but he will be going to hell along with non believers after Judgment day.

 

[Windwalker]

We live in a seemingly fallen world occupied by seemingly fallen and lost people.

Can you point to one period in human history where we were as a whole an awakened species? I'm talking actual on the ground history, of course, and not an imagined romantic ideal where were were all one with the world, such as in creation myths, or in the modern myth of the noble savage?

As far as the evidence shows from every front, no such time actually existed, and therefore we are not fallen. On the contrary actually, we are more awakened than at any time in the past. So I think your whole premise is flawed at the outset.

In the Christian faith it is believed there is a beast, a false prophet, and Satan who work together to destroy our home. Will this earth remain a fallen world until the beast, false prophet and Satan are destroyed? Reconciled maybe? Do they exist only in the minds of fallen man and in those who have been deceived by the "thieves and robbers" who some claim have hijacked the christian faith? Will the fallen on earth be reconciled as others have already been reconciled or will some truly be forever lost?

They exist as symbols in the minds of those stuck thinking in mythological terms. And to be reduced further, those who are apocolypitic and paranoid about ghosts and demons controlling them. It's a very early stage of development seen in children who imagine dark entities hiding in their closets or under their beds, except it is seen in adults who think of God in terms of the big scary unknown and imagine some sort of warfare in the heavens being waged beyond their control.

The book of Revelation by the way, was hotly contested against being included in the canon of scripture, and for good reason. Just look at the sorts of apocalyptic paranoid nonsense that people who read that book come up with! It's straight out of a child's nightmares, and no more valuable to understanding than that.

What's this life for?

To be.

[*]What is the lake of fire?

[*]What is hell?

[*]What is the beast?

[*]What is the false prophet?

[*]What is Satan?

Mythological imagery.

[*]Will all one day be reconciled, or will some be forever lost?

There is no such thing as "lost". Do people live in a mental and spiritual state of 'separation' from themselves and the world? Yes, of course. Will every one come to awaken at some point? If we don't blow ourselves up beforehand, I believe as a whole we will become more enlightened. But I do not believe enlightenment has an end point. It's a beginning of greater and greater fuller expression as the universe continues to evolve.

 

[ZenMonkey]

Thanks for playing ya'll. Some pretty good answers so far - Have any of you ever considered that the "faith" the eternal torment proponents exhibit might be spiritless, blind, empty, and desolate? I myself view what many envision hell to be an abomination, shameful, vile, and detestable. Those who believe in eternal hell and torment have surely been robbed of true faith, trust, and security in life, and many in turn peddle the same perversions the enemy (fear) has tricked them into believing. This as I understand it is the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet and it is standing in the holy places even today. The image of the beast that many have fallen subject to in life is being honored instead of life and love.


I believe this abomination of desolation is standing and is being taught in man made temples / churches across the globe. It has certainly marked the minds of those who have been deceived. Their fears rob many of true security in life. The beast (false image of god), false prophet (false understanding), Satan (selfish and evil desire), hell (emotional unrest) are part of this world. The enemy (fear) kills, steals, and destroys man's faith, trust, and security in life. There is no eternal hell, but there is ignorance, fear, and emotional unrest caused by the perversions perpetrated by those who peddle fear. This is why I suggest we live in a fallen world. Many have lost themselves in the darkness of heart and mind.


When I fear something I do one of three things (fight, flee, or cower). When I trust and revere something I tend to be drawn to it. I trust, revere, and have faith in life and love thus I am drawn to them. I cling to love like a young child clings to his binky. Enough fear and a man will cower, yet we are told to be bold, confident, and to exhibit faith. I once feared the God I learned of in the writ (it's easy to do) then I realized that God is exponentially better than what I had previously learned, perfect in love and mercy. This inevitably drew me closer to love, which then encouraged me to lead a better life and follow principles I know are good, right, and beneficial to others. To me, God is life and love -

 

[Timbo]

God almighty has given us this life for testing us, he has awarded us with free will, we can choose bad path or good path. we will get eternal paradise or hell fire depending on how we have done in this life.

Why? God is allmighty, allknowing and allpowerful, he doesn't need to test us. He knows precisely what we will do on beforehand. And no, there is no amount off slithering you can do to undercut this argument.

there is no lake of fire. are you talking about hell fire?


hell is destiny of disbelievers.

A pretty strange god who will create an eternal punishment for people who did the wrong choices, when he knows they are gonna do the wrong choices.

we will see when it will appear. it will come near end of time.

It's going to be Odin and Jormungandr fighting and Nidhöggr burning the plains off earth to oblivion. Why? Because it says so in the poetic Edda.

I don't know how many false prophets came after prophet Jesus peace be upon him, but prophet Muhammad peace and blessing of Allah be upon him said that there will be 30 false prophets after him, all of them will claim that he is prophet, but Muhammad pbuh told that he is final prophet, and there is no prophet after him.

That's a pretty convenient argument: ''whatever these dudes coming after me says, they are wrong, and remember I'm right. Why? Because I said so''. :clap

worst of those prophets will be Antichrist or Dajjal, first he will claim of prophet and then he will claim that he is god. Jesus will come when Dajjal will be spreading evil on earth.

God created angels from light, jinn from fire and human beings from dust. Satan was one of the pious Jinn, when God asked him to prostrate before Adam(first human being) he rejected the order because of pride, and God expelled him from heaven, Satan is now free to distract people from right path, but he will be going to hell along with non believers after Judgment day.

Why did god need fire, light and dust to create things? He's allpowerful.
Why did god ask Satan to bow before humans ?That's shirk
Don't you think god was being a little cruel? This raises the question: maybe all the things in the quran is actually really sinful and the quran is just a test off human guilability, and that one line about Satan going to hell for not bowing to Adam is actually just an allegory, that you actually shouldn't do what god says in the book, because that will get you eternal damnation.

I think it's time you come to the conclusion that your theology makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

[Sir Doom]

Why? God is allmighty, allknowing and allpowerful, he doesn't need to test us. He knows precisely what we will do on beforehand. And no, there is no amount off slithering you can do to undercut this argument.

I especially like the part of this where you decide that it can't be argued against. That's very forward thinking of you. Unfortunately, its also completely wrong. Allow me to demonstrate...

Farrukh didn't mention anything at all about what God needs. Thus, your entire point is moot. Done and done. Slither.

Next time, think before you speak.

A pretty strange god who will create an eternal punishment for people who did the wrong choices, when he knows they are gonna do the wrong choices.

As opposed to the non-strange God which you will describe for us by way of comparison?

It's going to be Odin and Jormungandr fighting and Nidhöggr burning the plains off earth to oblivion. Why? Because it says so in the poetic Edda.

Certainly a possibility...

That's a pretty convenient argument: ''whatever these dudes coming after me says, they are wrong, and remember I'm right. Why? Because I said so''. :clap

That doesn't make it wrong, though.

Why did god need fire, light and dust to create things? He's allpowerful.

Again, no needs mentioned.

Why did god ask Satan to bow before humans ?That's shirk

Elaborate.

Don't you think god was being a little cruel?

Perhaps. Should he not be? Why not?

This raises the question: maybe all the things in the quran is actually really sinful and the quran is just a test off human guilability, and that one line about Satan going to hell for not bowing to Adam is actually just an allegory, that you actually shouldn't do what god says in the book, because that will get you eternal damnation.

Why would any of that raise this question? Why would anything raise this question?

I think it's time you come to the conclusion that your theology makes absolutely no sense at all.

And I think its time you come to the conclusion that you haven't thought about this nearly as much as you'd like to think you have.

PS: I'm not Muslim. Just so you know.

 

[Riverwolf]

Have any of you ever considered that the "faith" the eternal torment proponents exhibit might be spiritless, blind, empty, and desolate?

Of course.

But now I realize it for what it is: a natural psychological follow-through to having perceived tribal "enemies." That's not so much "fallen" as just the natural state of things.

Getting over it isn't so much getting back up from a fall, as it is defying gravity.

 

[ZenMonkey]

Bump

 

[Twilight Hue]

We live in a seemingly fallen world occupied by seemingly fallen and lost people. In the Christian faith it is believed there is a beast, a false prophet, and Satan who work together to destroy our home. Will this earth remain a fallen world until the beast, false prophet and Satan are destroyed? Reconciled maybe? Do they exist only in the minds of fallen man and in those who have been deceived by the "thieves and robbers" who some claim have hijacked the christian faith? Will the fallen on earth be reconciled as others have already been reconciled or will some truly be forever lost?

1. What's this life for?
   
2. What is the lake of fire?
   
3. What is hell?
   
4. What is the beast?
   
5. What is the false prophet?
   
6. What is Satan?
   
7. Will all one day be reconciled, or will some be forever lost?

I myself believe the world we live in exists to help lost souls come back into union with what is – I believe we are here to learn very hard lessons and to experience the effects of evil, which is for lack of a better term “hell”. These experiences help lead many of us to want and pursue reconciliation with all that's good (God). I think the world is a metaphorical furnace of refinement, or rather the lake of fire. Satan (selfish/evil desire), the beast (false god), false prophet (false understanding), "hell" (strong emotional unrest), and fallen men all have their existence here already. I myself believe the lake of fire (life on earth) is ongoing - some say eternal (everlasting). Can it get back to good or no? Why or why not? Is there hope?

I figure not to worry too much bout those type of questions which will fade away eventually.

But I suppose pontificating does pass the time for a person as you put the kettle on and wait.