Some thoughts about the difference between Hinduism and the Abrahamic Faiths

[Kirran]

But isn’t that who is referred to in the Bhagavad Gita?

Yeah Also Krishna as an aspect. Depends how people take it.

 

[Jainarayan]

Always think of me, be devoted to me, worship me, and offer obeisance to me. Doing so, you will certainly come to me. This is my pledge to you, for you are very dear to me.

Don't mistake this for "if you don't do this, you're doomed". It's not that at all. Sri Krishna is saying that it (bhakti, devotion) is the quickest way to achieve liberation. There are other ways, which he describes in other chapters, but this is the quickest way.

8.5 Those who relinquish the body while remembering Me at the moment of death will come to Me. There is certainly no doubt about this.

12.6-7 But those who dedicate all their actions to Me, regarding Me as the Supreme goal, worshiping Me and meditating on Me with exclusive devotion, O Parth, I swiftly deliver them from the ocean of birth and death, for their consciousness is united with Me.
12.8 Fix your mind on Me alone and surrender your intellect to Me. There upon, you will always live in Me. Of this, there is no doubt.
12.9 If you are unable to fix your mind steadily on Me, O Arjun, then practice remembering Me with devotion while constantly restraining the mind from worldly affairs.
12.10 If you cannot practice remembering Me with devotion, then just try to work for Me. Thus performing devotional service to Me, you shall achieve the stage of perfection.
12.11 If you are unable to even work for Me in devotion, then try to renounce the fruits of your actions and be situated in the self.

 

[George-ananda]

What does this have to do with me commenting on Luis' view concerning the following?

"difference between the two groups are not, generally speaking, centered on the contrast between an expectation of a submission to authority in the Abrahamics (be that authority God or some form of prophet, guide or priest) while the Dharmic Faiths such as Hinduism don't really have such a notion."

Unless he wasn't clear in this comment, he is alluding to the idea that Abrahamic faiths expect submission and the other does not require submission.

My point thereafter was to demonstrate that submission in form or another is espoused in Dharmic faiths as well, and although one may say it differs, submission, willful or not, is stated in both religious philosophies.

Again, I ask; if All is One then who submits to whom? This question takes time to 'sink in' but it is the center of non-dual (God and creation are not-two) philosophy. Abrahamic faiths are dualist positing a difference between us and God.

What you are calling submission in non-dual Hinduism is just a path to reach the non-dual state. There is indeed a difference between the two religious traditions.

The same can be said for the Jew, the Muslim, or the Christian. When we seek truth we also seek self-realization

Here's where I believe further clarification is required again. I did not say 'self-realization' I said Self (God) Realization. In your reference to 'self-realization' (lower-case 's') you are talking about the individual realizing his place. When I say 'Self (God) Realization' (upper-case 'S') the Self = God. We are realizing we are God and the 'we' eventually falls away.

As I understand it, the end goal well, one of several meanings of the end goal in the Abrahamic faith is to be cognizant of the Creator.

That is different than realizing 'I am the Creator' is my point.

 

[Jainarayan]

ancient monasteries (a few still in existence) of Eastern orthodoxy do indeed have parallels to Hindu sampradaya

Yes, very true. Believe it or not there are still quite a few of them, Mount Athos in Greece is a hotbed of monasteries. The Eastern Orthodox tradition is very mystical, more so than the legalistic Roman Catholic.

 

[Kirran]

Don't mistake this for "if you don't do this, you're doomed". It's not that at all. Sri Krishna is saying that it (bhakti, devotion) is the quickest way to achieve liberation. There are other ways, which he describes in other chapters, but this is the quickest way.

8.5 Those who relinquish the body while remembering Me at the moment of death will come to Me. There is certainly no doubt about this.

12.6-7 But those who dedicate all their actions to Me, regarding Me as the Supreme goal, worshiping Me and meditating on Me with exclusive devotion, O Parth, I swiftly deliver them from the ocean of birth and death, for their consciousness is united with Me.
12.8 Fix your mind on Me alone and surrender your intellect to Me. There upon, you will always live in Me. Of this, there is no doubt.
12.9 If you are unable to fix your mind steadily on Me, O Arjun, then practice remembering Me with devotion while constantly restraining the mind from worldly affairs.
12.10 If you cannot practice remembering Me with devotion, then just try to work for Me. Thus performing devotional service to Me, you shall achieve the stage of perfection.
12.11 If you are unable to even work for Me in devotion, then try to renounce the fruits of your actions and be situated in the self.

There are a lot of quickest ways

 

[Jainarayan]

The same can be said for the Jew, the Muslim, or the Christian. When we seek truth we also seek self-realization whether it is a realization of our own existence of existence its very self!

Self-realization in Hinduism is the realization that we are Brahman. That's the truth to be realized. Then one achieves liberation.

 

[Jainarayan]

Submission is not necessary in Hinduism, but its one way certainly.

Yep, I think it's more like surrender, śaraṇa. 'Submission' just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[sayak83]

Don't mistake this for "if you don't do this, you're doomed". It's not that at all. Sri Krishna is saying that it (bhakti, devotion) is the quickest way to achieve liberation. There are other ways, which he describes in other chapters, but this is the quickest way.

8.5 Those who relinquish the body while remembering Me at the moment of death will come to Me. There is certainly no doubt about this.

12.6-7 But those who dedicate all their actions to Me, regarding Me as the Supreme goal, worshiping Me and meditating on Me with exclusive devotion, O Parth, I swiftly deliver them from the ocean of birth and death, for their consciousness is united with Me.
12.8 Fix your mind on Me alone and surrender your intellect to Me. There upon, you will always live in Me. Of this, there is no doubt.
12.9 If you are unable to fix your mind steadily on Me, O Arjun, then practice remembering Me with devotion while constantly restraining the mind from worldly affairs.
12.10 If you cannot practice remembering Me with devotion, then just try to work for Me. Thus performing devotional service to Me, you shall achieve the stage of perfection.
12.11 If you are unable to even work for Me in devotion, then try to renounce the fruits of your actions and be situated in the self.

He says every path as the quickest way in some chapter or the other. Depends on the person I guess.

 

[Jainarayan]

There are a lot of quickest ways

Oh yes indeed. But being the lazy sod I am, I'd just rather keep thinking about him and/or chanting his names, even mentally. I tried to keep this in mind the two times a tractor trailer was bearing down on me because they ran red lights. Achieving Vaikuntha is far more pleasurable than being reborn as a pile of dog poop because I yelled "oh [insert the appropriate digestive waste product]!"

 

[Jainarayan]

He says every path as the quickest way in some chapter or the other. Depends on the person I guess.

Very true. He's quite undemanding about the whole thing.

 

[ajay0]

Hinduism is too big a generalization, so I would just concentrate on the difference between the Abrahamic faiths and Hindu monotheistic sects.

Imo, the essential differences between the Hindu monotheistic sects , namely the Lingayats, Arya Samajis, Brahmo Samajis , Prajapita Brahmakumaris and the Abrahamic faiths, is the importance given by the monotheistic Dharmics to meditation, ahimsa or nonviolence, empowerment of women as leaders, priests and teachers ( especially the Prajapita Brahmakumaris ), emphasis on vegetarianism, lack of a history of war and conflict.

 

[sayak83]

Very true. He's quite undemanding about the whole thing.

I find chapter 13 very instructive.

‘The great elements, the ego,
the higher mind, the unmanifest,
and the eleven faculties with the five fields of sense-action;
‘desire, hatred, pleasure, pain,
the body, consciousness, resolve;
all these, in brief, compose the field with its capacity for change.

‘I shall address the to-be-known,
by which one becomes immortal;
the birthless, matchless, Brahman,
said neither to be nor to be not.

‘Its hands and feet are everywhere,
and everywhere its eye, head, face;
its ears on earth are everywhere;
it abides, all-enveloping.

‘Apprehended by the senses
and yet detached and free from them,
all-maintaining, unattached to the qualities that it enjoys.


‘Within all beings and without,
moving and motionless at once in uncomprehended fineness,
it dwells afar and yet nearby.

‘Undistributed in beings,
and yet existing as though shared,
To be known as the sustainer, all-destroying, all-creating.
‘This is also called the light of lights that lie beyond darkness;

Knowledge, its object and its goal, located in the hearts of all.
‘The field, knowledge, and its object,
here have been considered briefly.
In grasping this, my devotee arrives at my state of being.

‘One who therefore knows both the Purusha (Being)
and matter with its qualities,
existing in whatever way, will not be subject to rebirth.

‘Some see the Self within the Self
by the Self through meditation,
others by Samkhya , Yoga, or the discipline of action.

‘Yet some who do not know of this,
worship what they hear from others;
they also travel beyond death,
devoted to what they have heard.

 

[Vinayaka]

Fair enough. But I think that there is a subtle yet meaningful distinction between surrendering to God as portrayed in a scripture in defiance to the better judgement of oneself and others and acceptance of the Sacred as manifest in so many different ways.

The old adage about obeying your elders just begs the question. "But what if those elders are just plain stupid, or worse, abusive?" There has to be a time when the individual says 'Enough!"

 

[LuisDantas]

Indeed, @Vinayaka

From other conversations, I get the sense that most Hindus are all too aware that there is plenty of unskilled, fake or misguided gurus of various forms and degrees of danger.

That is IMO a very good thing. It makes at least basic defense against misguidance possible.

Such a luxury is much more difficult to obtain when one takes refuge (only) on a very abstract, inescrutable God.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Self-realization in Hinduism is the realization that we are Brahman. That's the truth to be realized. Then one achieves liberation.

I get that now. God is in the human but it’s a process in Hinduism.

 

[Jainarayan]

I get that now. God is in the human but it’s a process in Hinduism.

Spot on! Further, in the Gita Krishna says he is the Self (Brahman, universal soul, etc.) that resides in all beings. We just don't know it. I'm saying it now, I intellectually know it, but I don't experience it. I don't experientially know it.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Spot on! Further, in the Gita Krishna says he is the Self (Brahman, universal soul, etc.) that resides in all beings. We just don't know it. I'm saying it now, I intellectually know it, but I don't experience it. I don't experientially know it.

Interesting.

You don’t know how much Brahman and Allah parallel each other without the pantheon stuff. But I learned a lot

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Quite.



That may be what you attempted to demonstrate, but I don't think that can be made into a central component of any Dharma. A submissive atttiude is IMO inherently Adharmic.

Well we are at a cross roads my brother

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I do appreciate the correction on Hindu knowledge... thank you

 

[Vouthon]

Yes, very true. Believe it or not there are still quite a few of them, Mount Athos in Greece is a hotbed of monasteries. The Eastern Orthodox tradition is very mystical, more so than the legalistic Roman Catholic.

That is a common stereotype i.e. "mystical Orthodox, legalistic Catholic, Bible-bashing Protestant" but like most everyday perceptions, it is heavily flawed.

If you have a quick perusal of my posting history, you will find that the mystical tradition native to Catholic (Western) Christianity is both rich and deep (every bit as much as Orthodoxy).

With Protestant denominations, if you look in the right places the same can be said as well (albeit there are some branches that do flat-out reject mysticism). Ever heard of the distinction between the 'Radical' Reformation and the 'Magisterial' Reformation within Protestantism?