Someone present to me an innovative religious idea in the Koran

[Shaul]

I can think of one innovation of Islam. It permitted its founder to marry a 7 year old girl and insist its followers agree that was a good thing. That's innovative. I can't think of another religion that did that.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hehehe....yeah that's it. There were problems with the teaching of Jesus so we needed Mohammed to set us straight and send us back to Old Testament times

No need to make posts in a nature lacking the spirit of fruitful discussion here. We can always give our point in a good spirit, you know. If the purpose of this thread is not to get information and have a good fruitful discussion, tell me so I can make this post my last.

Are you saying it isn't for certain? And is the NT really the teaching of Jesus? I heard the NT was teachings by some other names I don't remember except Paul of them. I'm not saying otherwise, not I implied anything in my previous post. It was not a statement in the first place.

I'm not familiar with the Bible(s), so I'm gonna list some things I feel unique to the Quran that the Bible(s) didn't address. If they are found in the Bible(s), please point it out for me. We're here to learn, not to show ego.

1- Crediting science.
2- Describing God clearly. No complicated nature like a trinity.
3- Emphasizing the importance of parents if they raise us well, specially the mother.
4- Limiting the number of wives to 4 max, and more than one is forbidden if no justice can be given.
5- Telling us to be just and kind to whoever, no matter who they are, does not want to wage war on us or exile us from our homes.
6- There is no compulsion in religion.
7- Talking kindly with respect and reason to non Muslims, specially Christians and Jews.
8- Crediting people for being believers, not just Muslims. Believers include Christians and Jews.
9- Never fight unless others fight us, and if we do, we do it compared to the offense we got, not more.
10- Being in the same original language it came in +1400 years ago, unlike lets say the Bible(s).
11- Being good to non Muslims.
12- Protecting non Muslims and giving them refuge if they ask for your help.

Let alone some reasons mentioned in previous posts that even non Muslim members agreed on and talked to you about.

Remember, try to keep the discussion fruitful and pleasant. We're not here to have a who's wrong competition or something

 

[firedragon]

I can think of one innovation of Islam. It permitted its founder to marry a 7 year old girl and insist its followers agree that was a good thing. That's innovative. I can't think of another religion that did that.

Shows your ignorance.

Find where in the Quran that is stated and I will say at least in this forum that you are my master and that I denounce my faith.

 

[First Baseman]

Shows your ignorance.

Find where in the Quran that is stated and I will say at least in this forum that you are my master and that I denounce my faith.

Actually it was a brilliant insight. They still marry underage little girls over there. Mohammed started his own trend in his culture.

 

[firedragon]

Actually it was a brilliant insight. They still marry underage little girls over there. Mohammed started his own trend in his culture.

Thread title: Someone present to me an innovative religious idea in the Koran

 

[First Baseman]

Thread title: Someone present to me an innovative religious idea in the Koran

Yes, he did a great job of doing that. Did you miss the point? Justifying marriage to children is rather innovative.

 

[DawudTalut]

Someone present to me an innovative religious idea in the Koran
Peace be on all.
In addition to:
Answer 1
and
Answer 2

Answer 3
Real Islam has its own economic system:
It commences with the premise that all that is in the heavens and the earth has been created by God, Who has bestowed human various provisions on trust. As a trustee, human will be held accountable for the discharge of this trust.

Some aspects form Quran
=[24:57] Observe prayer and pay the Zakat and obey the Messenger that you may be shown mercy.
=Prohibition of Interest.
=Prohibition of Hoarding of Wealth
=Simple Lifestyle
=Non-lavish Matrimonial Expense
=Accepting Invitations from The Poor
=Moderation in Eating Habits
=Borrowing Money for exigencies and emergencies be without interest.
=Islam does not unduly interfere with the freedom of an individual to earn and to keep.
=The Islamic law of inheritance also plays an important role in the distribution of wealth from the deceased to his dependents.
=Prohibition of Bribery
=Islam neither disagrees with capitalism nor totally rejects scientific socialism but retains their good points and attitudes.
=Commercial Ethics
=Basic Needs
=Islamic Worship as a Means of Economic Unity
=International Obligations
Details at Pages 173 + @ https://www.alislam.org/library/books/IslamsResponseToContemporaryIssues.pdf

 

[DawudTalut]

Yes, he did a great job of doing that. Did you miss the point? Justifying marriage to children is rather innovative.

Peace and wisdom to all.
Why it is being ignored the there are other mentions present about the age of (Hazrat) Aisha..... Six / Seven year thing is not a mark engraved on a stone, it is not mentioned in Quran.

"" .....several historical events and Ahadith narrations demonstrate that Hadhrat Ayesha was likely 15-16, or as old as 19-20 at the time of her consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad. For example, Hadhrat Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad took place one year after Hijrah (emigration to Medina), or around 624 A.D. She was the daughter of Hadhrat Abu Bakr. Tabari reports, “All four of [Abu Bakr’s] children were born of his two wives—the names of whom we have already mentioned—during the pre-Islamic period [i.e. pre-610 A.D.].”[14] Therefore, even if Hadhrat Ayesha were born in 609 A.D., only a year before Prophet Muhammad claimed prophethood, she would be roughly 14 at the time of emigration to Medina in 623, and therefore no less than 15 at the time of her marriage to Prophet Muhammad. Both are a far cry from the age of six that Wilders’ asserts. Likewise, most historians report that Hadhrat Asmara, Hadhrat Ayesha’s elder sister, was ten years her senior.[15] The books, “Tahzibut Tahzib” and “Al-Bidaayah wa an-Nihayah,” both report that Hadhrat Asma died at the age of 100, in 73 A.H. or 695 A.D.[16] This means that Hadhrat Asmara must have been no younger than 27 at the time of emigration. Hadhrat Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad was in 1 A.H. when Asma was 28.This means that at a minimum, Hadhrat Ayesha was 18 upon her consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad. The above examples are not exhaustive. Several other authentic Hadith and well-recorded events discredit allegations that Prophet Muhammad married A’isha when she was six. - See more at: Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage | Muhammad Fact Check

wwwDOTmuhammadfactcheckDOTorg/?muhammad=prophet-muhammad-sa-married-ayesha-ra-when-she-was-underage#sthash.y9ZiSsaK.1EzZgLsE.dpuf

Discussions can be done, but there has to be a real base for that.



Ref: # 54 @ http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/muhammad-a-pedophile-how.174752/page-3#post-4203437

 

[firedragon]

Yes, he did a great job of doing that. Did you miss the point? Justifying marriage to children is rather innovative.

Nope. You have missed the point.

That is not said in the Quran. That is said in the ahadith. The thread is about the Quran.

Here you go again

"Someone present to me an innovative religious idea in the Koran "

 

[firedragon]

Yes, he did a great job of doing that. Did you miss the point? Justifying marriage to children is rather innovative.

Hmm. I felt like saying something mate. Why is it that a few people cant make the difference between scripture and religion? If the topic is about the Quran, why would you bring extra quranic information? Not once, but over and over again. Is it pretense not to understand?

Also do you know that some Jewish scripture says that a 3 year old can have intercourse and marriage can be sanctified by the act? Do you know that Rashi explains the biblical Rebeccas age as 3 years when she got married to Isaac?

 

[Shaul]

Shows your ignorance.

Find where in the Quran that is stated and I will say at least in this forum that you are my master and that I denounce my faith.

I never said it was in the Quran. I said it was in Islam. It is in the Hadith. As you no doubt knew. Stop the sophistry.

 

[firedragon]

I never said it was in the Quran. I said it was in Islam. It is in the Hadith. As you no doubt knew. Stop the sophistry.

I know, but the topic is on the Quran.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

So we've established that while the Koran adds some stuff on economics it basically takes us back to Old Testament times in terms of morality. There isn't one idea that I've heard on morality that isn't covered time and again in the Old Testament

 

[Shaul]

I know, but the topic is on the Quran.

But...

The Quran must allow and permit marriages to 7 year old girls. Otherwise you are saying Mohamed did something forbidden by the Quran. So it is in the Quran implicitly, not explicitly. Therefore it IS in the Quran unless YOU can show where it is prohibited.

 

[firedragon]

But...

The Quran must allow and permit marriages to 7 year old girls. Otherwise you are saying Mohamed did something forbidden by the Quran. So it is in the Quran implicitly, not explicitly. Therefore it IS in the Quran unless YOU can show where it is prohibited.

Again, it's not just the Quran.

 

[firedragon]

So we've established that while the Koran adds some stuff on economics it basically takes us back to Old Testament times in terms of morality. There isn't one idea that I've heard on morality that isn't covered time and again in the Old Testament

OT - it's no big deal to fornicate with a harlot.
Qur'an - Zina is prohibited.

OT- you can stone people for death for various things.
Quran - only for murder or killing in the name of god

OT - disabled are discriminated in church
Quran - righteousness

 

[Shaul]

Again, it's not just the Quran.

Again? Before you wrote it was just the Quran, now you write it is not. And as I wrote it IS permitted by the Quran.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

OT - it's no big deal to fornicate with a harlot.
Qur'an - Zina is prohibited.

OT- you can stone people for death for various things.
Quran - only for murder or killing in the name of god

OT - disabled are discriminated in church
Quran - righteousness

Let's say just for arguments sake you're right and I'm wrong about . Those behaviors are still covered in the NT which leads me back my original qualm with the Koran, that to my knowledge, it doesn't present one revolutionary insight on how to live ones live morally speaking. It copies it's best material from previous sources. It's new 'insights' are that Mohammed is Allahs prophet and everyone should listen to him over all other God messengers. Also it say Jesus wasn't crucified. This represents the chief 'contribution' to religious thinking based on what I've seen

 

[psychoslice]

Believe it or not, the Quran gave more rights to women than they had in the Bible.

Hard to believe though.

 

[firedragon]

Again? Before you it was just the Quran, now you write it is not. And as I wrote it IS permitted by the Quran.

It is not in the Quran.

Anyways, even if you want to discuss a 7 year old marriage I have already shown you that it's not new, three year old can get married according to Jewish scripture. Thus your point is absurd.

Cheers