Someone present to me an innovative religious idea in the Koran

[columbus]

Muslims claim the Koran to be a miraculous book. I've heard the rhyming scheme is some of the evidence of this. I'm not impressed with rhyming.

Have you ever heard the Quran "read" properly, by someone with a good voice and training? It is absolutely beautiful. I never had until I sought out a community of Muslims. It is an enormous and exquisite example of an ancient art form that just doesn't have a modern equivalent. It's oral poetry not particularly meant to be read silently so much as sung to groups.
Back when I was trying to learn about Islam and Muslims, there wasn't really an Internet. I have only heard it live. Probably you could find it on YouTube or something, I would ask someone like @Smart_Guy for help.

Then there is the fact that the Quran is specifically not innovative. Just the opposite, It is intended to eliminate innovative things from God's Word. Innovation is synonymous with corruption, because the same message has been taught since Adam. The problem is people adding stuff or leaving out stuff, that's innovative corruption. That is why previous scriptures don't always agree with the Quran.

Many of the concepts are very foreign to Western Christians. People who grew up in the Muslim culture often have trouble explaining stuff because what they see as common sense intuition is often very different from what you see that way.
Makes things difficult.
Tom

 

[Shaul]

Have you ever heard the Quran "read" properly, by someone with a good voice and training? It is absolutely beautiful. I never had until I sought out a community of Muslims. It is an enormous and exquisite example of an ancient art form that just doesn't have a modern equivalent. It's oral poetry not particularly meant to be read silently so much as sung to groups.
Back when I was trying to learn about Islam and Muslims, there wasn't really an Internet. I have only heard it live. Probably you could find it on YouTube or something, I would ask someone like @Smart_Guy for help.

Yes, but is it better than someone reading a telephone book?

No, no. I mean someone really good. Like Morgan Freeman,

https://www.chideo.com/chideo/morgan-freeman-reads-names-in-the-phone-book

 

[columbus]

Yes, but is it better than someone reading a telephone book?

Oh yeah.
It might be better, artistically, for people like myself who don't understand a single word of the language. Morgan Freeman performing the Quran would be spectacular.

The Quran is an art collection from a time when few people could read and fewer still write. It is incredibly sophisticated poetry, melodic and lyrical. That is a main reason it has kept It's power for all these centuries. Nobody much creates that sort of thing anymore, and haven't for over a thousand years. That is why the challenge to create a comparable work of art makes sense to people who "get" the Quran. Its like asking a modern musician to write something as good as Mozart. Fat chance.
Tom

 

[Shlomoh]

The teachings of Jesus represent an innovation of the Old Testament. For instance where the OT preached 'an eye for and eye' Jesus preached to turn the other cheek.

There are several malapropisms in these 2 sentences which many Xtians don't even think about due to unenlightenment.
1. There is no book called the "old testament" except in the mind of Xtians. When a Jew hears you calling his sacred writings the "old testament", it comes across as an insult.
The reason Xtians use that phrase is that it's the only one they have ever heard to describe the TANACH, the Hebrew scriptures. "Hebrew Scriptures" of TANACH are better
uses for the book.
2. Yeshua made no innovations to the Hebrew scriptures, He may have amplified some points for his Galilean followers but basically, he preached what is found in the TANACH.
Xtian unfamiliarity with the real meaning of the TANACH cannot be expected to understand it at all. Firstly, an eye for an eye means that if you damage someone's eye, you have to pay the value of the lost vision determined by a court. Even Xtians do that. But the Pharisees themselves said that it's best to meet ill-treatment with a non-violent response.
3. Yeshua himself did not turn the other cheek even when confronted by Pilate. He was confrontational with him. Yeshua didn't wait for attacks. Look at Matthew 23. It's an example of sayings by a person who doesn't turn the other cheek. John 8:44, Yeshua cursed out Jews who believed in him so why would anyone think he turned the other cheek?
Yeshua did not deviate from the Hebrew scriptures because he preached to Jews who understood him. Gentiles, on the other hand, have not understood his messages even from the Sermon on the Mount because there are subtle hidden Jewish messages contained in it.

 

[Shaul]

There may be one innovation in the Quran. That is an explicit prohibition on consuming alcohol. Some other antecedent religions such as Jainism don't consume alcohol. AFAIK that is derived from other principles and not explicitly stated. (Are there any Jain Dharma adherents here that can clarify this?) I'm not aware of any other religions with an explicit prohibition against alcohol before the Quran's.

I don't know if that's a good thing or not. But I think it might be an innovation. So, I'll drink to that.

Shalom

 

[firedragon]

There may be one innovation in the Quran. That is an explicit prohibition on consuming alcohol. Some other antecedent religions such as Jainism don't consume alcohol. AFAIK that is derived from other principles and not explicitly stated. (Are there any Jain Dharma adherents here that can clarify this?) I'm not aware of any other religions with an explicit prohibition against alcohol before the Quran's.

I don't know if that's a good thing or not. But I think it might be an innovation. So, I'll drink to that.

Shalom

Actually there is no explicit prohibition in the Quran. Though the bible contains statements that you may deem as explicit prohibition.

 

[columbus]

Actually there is no explicit prohibition in the Quran.

Why are Muslims so sticky about this?
I have been told that drinking, or even touching a glass with alcohol in it is unIslamic. There was a whole thread on RF about a Muslima who caused a lot of trouble because her job as an airline hostess included giving passengers wine and she insisted that it was against her religion.
Nobody was asking her to drink any, she was a stewardess at work and forbidden alcoholic beverages by her employer. But she was a Muslim insisting that her religion forbade the touching of a glass of scotch. She expected all the other employees to do it for her, because she didn't want to get another more suitable job.
Was she not a Muslim?

Though the bible contains statements that you may deem as explicit prohibition.

And then there is Jesus' First Miracle. He made water into wine because His mom called Him out.

Tom

 

[firedragon]

Why are Muslims so sticky about this?
I have been told that drinking, or even touching a glass with alcohol in it is unIslamic. There was a whole thread on RF about a Muslima who caused a lot of trouble because her job as an airline hostess included giving passengers wine and she insisted that it was against her religion.
Nobody was asking her to drink any, she was a stewardess at work and forbidden alcoholic beverages by her employer. But she was a Muslim insisting that her religion forbade the touching of a glass of scotch. She expected all the other employees to do it for her, because she didn't want to get another more suitable job.
Was she not a Muslim?

My answer was to the statement "There may be one innovation in the Quran. That is an explicit prohibition on consuming alcohol.". That was about the Quran.

Not about Muslims and what they believe.

And then there is Jesus' First Miracle. He made water into wine because His mom called Him out.

Tom

Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit - Ephesians 5:18

 

[Useless2015]

Actually there is no explicit prohibition in the Quran. Though the bible contains statements that you may deem as explicit prohibition.

Alcohol is forbidden, could not be made clearer.


"O you who believe, intoxicants, gambling, altars and arrows of chance are afflictions which are the work of the devil; you shall stay away from him, that you may succeed"

 

[columbus]

Alcohol is forbidden, could not be made clearer.


"O you who believe, intoxicants, gambling, altars and arrows of chance are afflictions which are the work of the devil; you shall stay away from him, that you may succeed"

Yes, this could be more clear.
Centuries ago people regularly mixed some fermented alcohol into their drinking water. In small amounts it killed bacteria, especially if you left it there for a while. But it was not intoxicating, because the alcoholic content was so tiny.

So no, I don't see this as "could not be made clearer" at all. I see it as a primitive 7th century teaching brought into the modern world without recognizing that this world is different. There is a huge difference between a glass of wine and drinking until you are intoxicated.
Tom

 

[Godobeyer]

God in Quran talking about extention of univers that scientist talking about .

http://quran.com/51/47
And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.

God in Quran said : there are seven planets in universe similaire to this earth,may have life too.

http://quran.com/65/12
It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth, the like of them. [His] command descends among them so you may know that Allah is over all things competent and that Allah has encompassed all things in knowledge.

God in Quran said there is other creatures in universe (we are not alone).


http://quran.com/42/28
And of his signs is the creation of the heavens and earth and what He has dispersed throughout them of creatures. And He, for gathering them when He wills, is competent.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

There may be one innovation in the Quran. That is an explicit prohibition on consuming alcohol. Some other antecedent religions such as Jainism don't consume alcohol. AFAIK that is derived from other principles and not explicitly stated. (Are there any Jain Dharma adherents here that can clarify this?) I'm not aware of any other religions with an explicit prohibition against alcohol before the Quran's.

I don't know if that's a good thing or not. But I think it might be an innovation. So, I'll drink to that.

Shalom

Manichaeism also prohibited the consumption of fermented beverages.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Yes, this could be more clear.
Centuries ago people regularly mixed some fermented alcohol into their drinking water. In small amounts it killed bacteria, especially if you left it there for a while. But it was not intoxicating, because the alcoholic content was so tiny.

So no, I don't see this as "could not be made clearer" at all. I see it as a primitive 7th century teaching brought into the modern world without recognizing that this world is different. There is a huge difference between a glass of wine and drinking until you are intoxicated.
Tom

I think the verse that Useless2015 refers to is clear enough. It refers to intoxicating beverages. Mixing a small amount of alcohol into drinking water does not make an intoxicating beverage. By the same token, drinking alcohol-free beer (which also sometimes contains small amounts of alcohol), for example, doesn't contravene this verse either. But drinking even one glass of wine is a very slippery slope - it doesn't take much more for the average person to start to become intoxicated.

 

[firedragon]

Alcohol is forbidden, could not be made clearer.


"O you who believe, intoxicants, gambling, altars and arrows of chance are afflictions which are the work of the devil; you shall stay away from him, that you may succeed"

I know what I will hear if I respond to this, thus you can keep going and I will do too.