Sorry for your loss

[Tmac]

Yesterday I responded to a post that generated this response, "Sorry for your loss". (I on the other hand did not interpret the post as a plea for synpathy and responded accordingly)

How can the death of someone in one's life be considered as a loss, how can we be so presumptous that we think we have some thing coming. We are not satisfied with what we have, we get upset because we don't get what is only an assumption, how did we become these people?

I was chastized for my insensitivity by people, with most of their needs met, with myoptic vision, oblivious to the pain and suffering just beyond their door, but they feel good about themselves because they said, Sorry for your loss.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How can the death of someone in one's life be considered as a loss

I do not get this question. Loosing a friend or loved one is indeed a loss, one that in most people inflicts heavy and deep emotional pain. How can the death of someone in one's life be considered as a loss. We all grieve in our own ways, but that we experience pain and mourn is pretty much the default for losing someone we love.

how did we become these people?

You do realize hominids have been feeling loss and mourning our dead before modern homo sapiens, and even other primates and other animals mourn the loss of herd/pack member. We were "these people" long and way before we were "today's people."

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I do not get this question. Loosing a friend or loved one is indeed a loss, one that in most people inflicts heavy and deep emotional pain. How can the death of someone in one's life be considered as a loss. We all grieve in our own ways, but that we experience pain and mourn is pretty much the default for losing someone we love.

You do realize hominids have been feeling loss and mourning our dead before modern homo sapiens, and even other primates and other animals mourn the loss of herd/pack member. We were "these people" long and way before we were "today's people."

Pretty much this.
+1

 

[Terese]

Sorry for your loss. Of empathy, that is.

 

[sayak83]

Yesterday I responded to a post that generated this response, "Sorry for your loss". (I on the other hand did not interpret the post as a plea for synpathy and responded accordingly)

How can the death of someone in one's life be considered as a loss, how can we be so presumptous that we think we have some thing coming. We are not satisfied with what we have, we get upset because we don't get what is only an assumption, how did we become these people?

I was chastized for my insensitivity by people, with most of their needs met, with myoptic vision, oblivious to the pain and suffering just beyond their door, but they feel good about themselves because they said, Sorry for your loss.

If you do not feel the loss of people close to you and do not appreciate expressions of empathy for such a loss, then I feel sorry for your loss of humanity and hope you recover it soon.

 

[Jumi]

Yesterday I responded to a post that generated this response, "Sorry for your loss". (I on the other hand did not interpret the post as a plea for synpathy and responded accordingly)

How can the death of someone in one's life be considered as a loss, how can we be so presumptous that we think we have some thing coming. We are not satisfied with what we have, we get upset because we don't get what is only an assumption, how did we become these people?

I sort of understand your point here, I too feel strange saying that when people are coping with death of their loved ones but often it's a good time to say "sorry for your loss"... it's something that helps people and I understand that there's a good positive motivation behind it.

I was chastized for my insensitivity by people, with most of their needs met, with myoptic vision, oblivious to the pain and suffering just beyond their door, but they feel good about themselves because they said, Sorry for your loss.

I don't think either is wrong, probably misunderstandings in both directions.

 

[idav]

How can the death of someone in one's life be considered as a loss

*sigh* Heres a link.

Empathy vs. Sympathy
Empathy is different from sympathy. Sympathy reflects understanding another person's situation - but viewed through your own lens. That is, it's based on your version of what the other person is dealing with. ("Yeah, I can sympathize with your problem with your elderly mother, because I have my own problems with mine ..."). The narcissist can be sympathetic in this way.

In contrast, empathy is what you feel only when you can step outside of yourself and enter the internal world of the other person. There, without abandoning or losing your own perspective, you can experience the other's emotions, conflicts, or aspirations from within the vantage point of that person's world. That's not telepathy - it's a hard-wired capacity in all of us, as I explain below. And that kind of connection builds healthy, mutual relationships - an essential part of mental health.
Are You Suffering From Empathy Deficit Disorder?

 

[SabahTheLoner]

How can the death of someone in one's life be considered as a loss, how can we be so presumptous that we think we have some thing coming. We are not satisfied with what we have, we get upset because we don't get what is only an assumption, how did we become these people?

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Death is a loss of life, it doesn't matter if that's a literal thing or a figurative way to describe the body stopping its bodily processes. Death doesn't just happen, it happens for a reason. And humans are really saddened that those reasons seem really unfair.

Elephants mourn their dead. The burials are ritualistic. Our emotions are not unique to us and animals have the spirit to understand things such as death, and they too are saddened. Grandma Elephant dying will have the herd mourn for days. Mother elephants have been known to mourn dead babies for a month. Elephants even regularly take in orphans because they understand mom's dead.

Death is also nearly irreversible. The few cases of humans literally coming back from the dead without a convincing medical explanation happen just moments after the patient is considered dead. Beyond that the body breaks down beyond repair, including the brain. Does it bother you even a little bit that the greatest people you'll ever meet will one day only be memories? What will happen when everyone forgets to remember them? Will they be nothing then, just another person that suffered? Why is the suffering not worth remembering?

So if you're wondering about an assumption, there is no universal assumption about dying except that one day we simply won't be here, by evidence of the past and present events of death. Technology might prolong it but even technology breaks, even if it takes hundreds or thousands of more years to do so. This is not to say death is evil, but it is scary simply because it's quite a strange, maybe unfamiliar topic to most folks.

For this reason I attempt to find cultures who honor death and the aspects of it and adopt similar worldviews. Ancient Egyptian philosophy about the soul and body states no one is truely dead until the Ren (name) is erased from history. People in Mexico believe that death is a second phase of life, one reason why El Día de los Muertos (the Day of the Dead) is a colorful celebration that welcomes the ancestors. I personally think these are healthier ways to think about death as it shows that we can live beyond death (even if only temporarily) and accepting death not as a destructive force but as a fact of how we must live. I still mourn and cry for newly dead, despite these worldviews. In my opinion it's our emotions doing their best to honor the dead by saying "I care about you and now you can be free, but I can't go. So I must say goodbye."

 

[Brickjectivity]

Yesterday I responded to a post that generated this response, "Sorry for your loss". (I on the other hand did not interpret the post as a plea for synpathy and responded accordingly)

The way I see it is that while it can feel fake to express concern for someone you cannot touch or see, the expression takes into account that our emotions do not always come at the right time and in the right situations. It is about timing. You cannot always make your emotions match what is going on. Emotions run separately to logical intelligence. You can have a personal disappointment that takes days before you feel its effects. Unwanted crushes can cause you suffering, and just because you don't want a crush does not mean you can easily drop it. In addition to delayed and unwanted emotions, you can also have inexplicable emotions when your emotional mind realizes things that your logical mind sees as unimportant. For example I sometimes feel guilty about eating bacon, but I don't believe eating bacon is wrong. My emotions and my mind do not agree. Similarly just because a person is unconnected to you does not mean that its false to express sorrow for their loss. What you are doing is empathizing using a memory of a personal experience. You can also develop your 'Empathy memory' so that you can more easily feel empathy at appropriate times. Just think of a sad thought, some experience you have in common if that helps.

 

[sun rise]

Only the most highly evolved souls, of which I am not one, can view death dispassionately. I've even known of dogs who have felt the loss of their owner so strongly that they've been depressed. Feeling a loss is more than human.

"sorry for your loss" at its best means "I too have suffered loss and have felt what you are feeling now. From that knowing of your pain, I can see and feel your pain and my words reflect that knowing."

 

[David1967]

Yesterday I responded to a post that generated this response, "Sorry for your loss". (I on the other hand did not interpret the post as a plea for synpathy and responded accordingly)

How can the death of someone in one's life be considered as a loss, how can we be so presumptous that we think we have some thing coming. We are not satisfied with what we have, we get upset because we don't get what is only an assumption, how did we become these people?

I was chastized for my insensitivity by people, with most of their needs met, with myoptic vision, oblivious to the pain and suffering just beyond their door, but they feel good about themselves because they said, Sorry for your loss.

I guess my question to you would be, 'What is the proper response, (In your opinion), to someone who has informed you of the loss of a loved one?

 

[Tmac]

I do not get this question. Loosing a friend or loved one is indeed a loss, one that in most people inflicts heavy and deep emotional pain. How can the death of someone in one's life be considered as a loss. We all grieve in our own ways, but that we experience pain and mourn is pretty much the default for losing someone we love.

You do realize hominids have been feeling loss and mourning our dead before modern homo sapiens, and even other primates and other animals mourn the loss of herd/pack member. We were "these people" long and way before we were "today's people."

Seeing as how you don't want to see my point let me ask you this, how come your sympathy is so short sighted. If there is so much sympathy in your beautiful world, how come there is so much indifference? Seems we lost to ability to morn the loss of herd/pack members, unless they are close to us and even that is regulated.

 

[Tmac]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Death is a loss of life, it doesn't matter if that's a literal thing or a figurative way to describe the body stopping its bodily processes. Death doesn't just happen, it happens for a reason. And humans are really saddened that those reasons seem really unfair.

Elephants mourn their dead. The burials are ritualistic. Our emotions are not unique to us and animals have the spirit to understand things such as death, and they too are saddened. Grandma Elephant dying will have the herd mourn for days. Mother elephants have been known to mourn dead babies for a month. Elephants even regularly take in orphans because they understand mom's dead.

Death is also nearly irreversible. The few cases of humans literally coming back from the dead without a convincing medical explanation happen just moments after the patient is considered dead. Beyond that the body breaks down beyond repair, including the brain. Does it bother you even a little bit that the greatest people you'll ever meet will one day only be memories? What will happen when everyone forgets to remember them? Will they be nothing then, just another person that suffered? Why is the suffering not worth remembering?

So if you're wondering about an assumption, there is no universal assumption about dying except that one day we simply won't be here, by evidence of the past and present events of death. Technology might prolong it but even technology breaks, even if it takes hundreds or thousands of more years to do so. This is not to say death is evil, but it is scary simply because it's quite a strange, maybe unfamiliar topic to most folks.

For this reason I attempt to find cultures who honor death and the aspects of it and adopt similar worldviews. Ancient Egyptian philosophy about the soul and body states no one is truely dead until the Ren (name) is erased from history. People in Mexico believe that death is a second phase of life, one reason why El Día de los Muertos (the Day of the Dead) is a colorful celebration that welcomes the ancestors. I personally think these are healthier ways to think about death as it shows that we can live beyond death (even if only temporarily) and accepting death not as a destructive force but as a fact of how we must live. I still mourn and cry for newly dead, despite these worldviews. In my opinion it's our emotions doing their best to honor the dead by saying "I care about you and now you can be free, but I can't go. So I must say goodbye."

Now I know what he meant by, Let the dead take care of the dead.

I'm not complaining about sympathy but that its wasted. If the individual didn't get everything out of the relationship and the time they had together then why should one expect sympathy because of their neglect. Kind like me saying, I'm sorry you finished your milkshake so fast.

Get the picture, it ain't about death, its about living.

 

[Tmac]

I guess my question to you would be, 'What is the proper response, (In your opinion), to someone who has informed you of the loss of a loved one?

Off the top of my head, I'd count my regrets, I certainly wouldn't be sorry for them because if they still exist I got no idea what they are going through but I'm still here, did I get everything I could get from that relationship, did it make my life better. This would go through my mind but all I would say to the person that informed me is thanks.

 

[Tmac]

Only the most highly evolved souls, of which I am not one, can view death dispassionately. I've even known of dogs who have felt the loss of their owner so strongly that they've been depressed. Feeling a loss is more than human.

"sorry for your loss" at its best means "I too have suffered loss and have felt what you are feeling now. From that knowing of your pain, I can see and feel your pain and my words reflect that knowing."

I classify this under the section, People who like to hear themselves talk.

When life doesn't go as we want, do we consider that a loss?

 

[Tmac]

The way I see it is that while it can feel fake to express concern for someone you cannot touch or see, the expression takes into account that our emotions do not always come at the right time and in the right situations. It is about timing. You cannot always make your emotions match what is going on. Emotions run separately to logical intelligence. You can have a personal disappointment that takes days before you feel its effects. Unwanted crushes can cause you suffering, and just because you don't want a crush does not mean you can easily drop it. In addition to delayed and unwanted emotions, you can also have inexplicable emotions when your emotional mind realizes things that your logical mind sees as unimportant. For example I sometimes feel guilty about eating bacon, but I don't believe eating bacon is wrong. My emotions and my mind do not agree. Similarly just because a person is unconnected to you does not mean that its false to express sorrow for their loss. What you are doing is empathizing using a memory of a personal experience. You can also develop your 'Empathy memory' so that you can more easily feel empathy at appropriate times. Just think of a sad thought, some experience you have in common if that helps.

Can you empathize with the people who are starving to death, who at this moment are begging for one more minute/second of life, who would gladly eat your defecation if it would get them more time.

 

[Ingledsva]

Can you empathize with the people who are starving to death, who at this moment are begging for one more minute/second of life, who would gladly eat your defecation if it would get them more time.

I'm beginning to think you're a troll.

*

 

[Brickjectivity]

Can you empathize with the people who are starving to death, who at this moment are begging for one more minute/second of life, who would gladly eat your defecation if it would get them more time.

You think it is some kind of big reveal that our empathy is shallow? Like, you are just now discovering this? It is not less important but more important then. It is a rare and a precious thing, and when you express sorrow for another's grief you cut through many layers of uncaring and perform a tiny miracle. Its one of the best things in the world.

 

[Tmac]

I sort of understand your point here, I too feel strange saying that when people are coping with death of their loved ones but often it's a good time to say "sorry for your loss"... it's something that helps people and I understand that there's a good positive motivation behind it.


I don't think either is wrong, probably misunderstandings in both directions.

So you bow to tradition.

I'm beginning to think you're a troll.

*

You think it is some kind of big reveal that our empathy is shallow? Like, you are just now discovering this? It is not less important but more important then. It is a rare and a precious thing, and when you express sorrow for another's grief you cut through many layers of uncaring and perform a tiny miracle. Its one of the best things in the world.

HUH?

 

[Tmac]

I'm beginning to think you're a troll.

*

Weak!