Sortition: an actual democracy?

[Augustus]

The world over, whether you are right or left, few classes of people are as widely hated as politicians.

Politicians are seen as:

1. Out of touch elitists who spend their lives in a political bubble
   
2. Deaf to the needs and wants of the people
3. Self serving careerists
4. Craven lightweights terrified of negative publicity thus beholden to the media
5. Toadies and lickspittles to powerful interests on whom their political career depends
6. Easily corrupted by they knowledge that if they 'play ball' then they will be rewarded by lucrative "consultancy" jobs after their political retirement
7. Unrepresentative of the diversity of their society
8. Guardians of a corrupt establishment
9. Prone to stirring up animosity and hatred to bolster their own popularity
10. Useless and incompetent
11. Happy to harm the country in any way, as long as it is politically expedient.
12. etc.

I would imagine that a large majority of people would agree with at least some of the above. And that's before we even get to political parties and the election process itself.

I think many, if not all of these problems could be eliminated, or at least mitigated, by adopting a form of sortition to select representatives.

Previously used in some Ancient Greek city states, sortition is selection or representatives through the drawing of lots. It is a democratic system that works by random selection.

Sortition is used in many countries already: to select juries, but the same method could be applied to politics.

Representatives would be selected randomly from the whole population to serve a fixed term. No careerism, no establishment, no need to pander to the media or political donors.

Decisions would be made by everyday people from a wide range of backgrounds who know they have to go back to 'normal society' after their term is served. No more out of touch political elites as government would be comprised of doctors, teachers, plumbers, cabbies, business people and even the (previously) unemployed.

All sectors of society would be represented and no racism, sexism or other forms of prejudice in the selection process. This would create a polity that better understands the needs of diverse communities .

People with fringe extremist views would also be unable to capture significant power

There are different ways that such a syctem could be integrated into governance. 'Sortition max' would select ever representative, or there could be partial sortition to supplement traditional elections.

I think sortition, either partial or complete, would bring significant benefits to society and by removing elections you would actually get a real democracy where the people genuinely are sovereign.

Thoughts? Good idea? Bad idea? Still have faith in the status quo?

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Sortition or a form of it may be a start of a better method for choosing our leaders. Now anyone with a few billion or some buddies in Washington etc can run. Its a joke to think an average Joe can become president of the USA. The only problem I see right away is how to avoid being subjective in some of the criteria that the candidates much meet. One mans or womans abhorrence is another mans/womens adoration. I am all for change, even though it has worked somewhat good for over a hundred years.

 

[Kemosloby]

You just described Obama.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

You just described Obama.

Ha ha or maybe with our luck maybe I was describing Trump....

 

[Kemosloby]

Ha ha or maybe with our luck maybe I was describing Trump....

I meant the other one, particularly the "do anything to harm our country", is Obama. I think i actually heard Obama say the same thing in a faux pas during a live speach. Obama said lets not let them undo the harm we've done.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

A government needs specialists as well as generalists.
Sortitian would be fine Provided it selected in a way that ensured that "Sufficient" experts in their fields, were amongst the selection. This could also be done randomly in each necessary area of expertise. Each expert area would always be a minority.

The management of government action is always in the hands of an elite civil service. It would be necessary to ensure that this was de-politicised, as with out a long term elected elite,the New style legislators would depend on the civil service even more than today, for know how and continuity.They would have no political role.
I would also see the committee system extended to all items of legislation to ensure that there was a coherent way of ensuring legislation progresses through the houses.
The executive including president. could be selected by the houses in Joint assembly.
I would outlaw all commercial and political lobbying.
Those members found entertaining such lobbying, would be excluded for life.
Expert advisers would need to be selected by committee not by individual members.

Law officers would also need to be chosen by sortition at each level, and serve fixed terms.

I would split the sortitian term for members into two parts, I year as watchers, where they could speak but not vote, followed by 4 years as full members.
20% of the membership would be retired each year. Selection would be the same number + any accumulated vacancies.

 

[Kemosloby]

Sortition could backfire and allow the greater of two evils, or more, to win. Here is the only thing ive ever heard the pope say that I agree with. " No matter what form of government you have it is corruptible because people are corrupt." And I think the Vatican knows a thing or two about that.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

I meant the other one, particularly the "do anything to harm our country", is Obama. I think i actually heard Obama say the same thing in a faux pas during a live speach. Obama said lets not let them undo the harm we've done.

Wow, how did I miss that one? Maybe Obama did the ' Freudian Slip' thing? Well, it could be because TV is usually just something I use to fill the silence with noise, or drown out awfulness masquerading as conversation. I usually turn music on when Clinton or Obama OR the weird child like rants of Trump wafts across the ether in long graceful waves of the electromagnetic spectrum.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

A government needs specialists as well as generalists.
Sortitian>>>>SNIPPED FOR BREVITY<<<<<< If this offends the author I wont repeat it,
>>>>><<<<<<<Law officers would also need to be chosen by sortition at each level, and serve fixed terms. I would split the sortitian term for members into two parts, I year as watchers, where they could speak but not vote, followed by 4 years as full members.
20% of the membership would be retired each year. Selection would be the same number + any accumulated vacancies.

It's interesting but who gets to appoint or elect the experts and other members etc? I said it's interesting but I as a Constitutionalist , it is scary as hell , but did I say its interesting? lol...

A web (wiki) description ; Constitutionalism(list); "A complex of ideas, attitudes, and patterns of behavior elaborating the principle that the authority of government derives from and is limited by a body of fundamental law".

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It's interesting but who gets to appoint or elect the experts and other members etc? I said it's interesting but I as a Constitutionalist , it is scary as hell , but did I say its interesting? lol...

A web (wiki) description ; Constitutionalism(list); "A complex of ideas, attitudes, and patterns of behavior elaborating the principle that the authority of government derives from and is limited by a body of fundamental law".

Sortition copes with selecting experts in the same way as other representatives, it simply selects them from a pool of all qualified experts in a particular field. The entire process is random, there is no human selection or election.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Sortition copes with selecting experts in the same way as other representatives, it simply selects them from a pool of all qualified experts in a particular field. The entire process is random, there is no human selection or election.

Twenty years ago, and before my life changing injury I might have wanted to try something like that. If the SHTF, back then I could always take care of myself either by exercising the benefits of being a world citizen or toughing a situation out in place. Now I am more interested in security and other things that older farts want, so I say to the younger more adventurous types who like to hear the cannon roar, go for it! Create a new political entity. Overthrowing a corrupt or tyrannical government of the USA was encouraged by a few of our founding fathers. The catch is the only quasi legal means was and is now the change via non-violent coup .... But I wouldn't try it out lol.....not even twenty years ago!

Thomas Jefferson ; "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."